Citizenship?

So do you have any knowledge of how one might get the Green Card in those 3 countries

This is how to get a retiree visa for France (probably the easiest way for you to get your foot in the door). Straight from the horse's mouth:

Long stay visa for non professional purpose - Consulat Général de France Ã* Washington

You get the "long term visa for non-professional purpose" for the first year. The visa can then be extended beyond the first year and you will get a "carte de sejour" (the French green card).
 
This is how to get a retiree visa for France (probably the easiest way for you to get your foot in the door). Straight from the horse's mouth:

Long stay visa for non professional purpose - Consulat Général de France Ã* Washington

You get the "long term visa for non-professional purpose" for the first year. The visa can then be extended beyond the first year and you will get a "carte de sejour" (the French green card).

Excellent!

The one thing that stikes me as I read that is that I have to have a lease in France "before" I can even apply for the 1 year residency. This looks easy on paper but I wonder if a French apartment/condo owner will give me a lease when I 'may or may not" be able to get the Green Card

This looks like the tiny first step.
 
Excellent!

The one thing that stikes me as I read that is that I have to have a lease in France "before" I can even apply for the 1 year residency. This looks easy on paper but I wonder if a French apartment/condo owner will give me a lease when I 'may or may not" be able to get the Green Card

This looks like the tiny first step.

Immigrating to a new country is a long and arduous process. You have to start somewhere and take it one step a a time.

The need to have a place to live lined up before applying for a visa seems pretty universal. I had to do the same when I came to the US. They want to make sure that, based on the financial information you provide when you apply for the visa, you can afford to live in France. So they need to know how much you will pay in rent and verify that you can easily afford it and you won't become a burden to the state.

Getting a lease when you are not yet a resident can be a bit difficult (it was for me at least when I had to lease an apartment in the US before even setting foot here), but certainly not impossible. The difficulty for me wasn't so much finding someone willing to lease me an apartment, but rather the amount of paperwork required and the language barrier. Having someone on location who knows the language and the law can be a tremendous help, so perhaps you should look for one of the many realtors who catter to the thousands of British retirees moving to France each year.
 
Firedreamer, my biggest worry (and probably the same for most folks) is that I get thru step 1, the 1 year residency, then step 2, the 4 year titre de sejour, and then find that citizenship is denied and no more residency is extended.

That is why my question of "Does anyone know a US citizen that was able to get French citizenship, or Australian or UK?". So far on the 3 forums that I have posted I have received about 100-150 replies but not ONE that confirms a success.
 
Dangermouse, thanks for sharing an example. That helps greatly. I suspect that the process you are going thru was implemented after 9/11 and may be more stringent that when my naturalized friends/acquaintances applied in the 90s.

I did it in the USA in the 90's and it was extremely difficult even with a US company sponsoring me, the fact that I'd been here with them for 5 years in a profession that was on the INS list of desired immigrants. In the end my company's lawyers failed twice so the company hired a specialist lawyer to get through the process. It was really tough, 5 years on visa's, then applied for a green card which took 18 months, then 5 years later applied for citizenship which took 9 months for me, 14 months for DW even though we applied at the same time.

DM has given you plenty of excellent information on Australia and I can confirm I know several folks (friends and relatives) that moved to Australia doing jobs that were in demand and got their citizenship. My grandmother emigrated there as a retiree but that was on the strength of her daughter (my aunt) sponsoring her.

I only personally know of 2 folks who got citizenship in the UK based purely on their ability to support themselves and not because they had relatives. Again it was because they were in jobs that were in short supply.
 
Firedreamer, my biggest worry (and probably the same for most folks) is that I get thru step 1, the 1 year residency, then step 2, the 4 year titre de sejour, and then find that citizenship is denied and no more residency is extended.

That's a risk you have to take. Immigrating to a new country is a process and there are no guarantees (no matter what that country might be). What I know for sure is that if you don't try, you'll never get the French citizenship. I personally have met few Americans who are willing to become French citizens (for a variety of financial and cultural reasons). Yes, I have met plenty of Francophiles but, even among those people, few would really consider taking it to the next level. So you may have a hard time finding Americans who have gone through this process. Consider that in 2003, less than 7,000 people out of the roughly $140,000 who became naturalized French citizens came from North and South America. The vast majority of immigrants came from poor, mostly African, countries. Out of roughly 3.5 million immigrants living in France, Americans have a contingent of only 31,000 (less than 1% of the total). Based on that number, it is possible that as few as 1,000 Americans become French citizens every year... So you might as well be looking at a needle in a haystack.
 
Not sure if I am talking out of the correct orifice, but to get French citizenship don't you have to be able to speak fluent french? Somehow I have picked that up in my head from somewhere.
 
Not sure if I am talking out of the correct orifice, but to get French citizenship don't you have to be able to speak fluent french? Somehow I have picked that up in my head from somewhere.

You do have to be able to communicate in French. I am not sure whether fluency is required.
 
Introduction page and menu for residence

This is something I have had bookmarked for a while. Also Firedreamer can probably confirm, but taxes in France are quite high aren't they, so not sure you would want to volunteer. I can remember when DH worked in Paris, his payslip seemed to take a ream of paper to detail all the deductions.
 
That's a risk you have to take. Immigrating to a new country is a process and there are no guarantees (no matter what that country might be). What I know for sure is that if you don't try, you'll never get the French citizenship. I personally have met few Americans who are willing to become French citizens (for a variety of financial and cultural reasons). Yes, I have met plenty of Francophiles but, even among those people, few would really consider taking it to the next level. So you may have a hard time finding Americans who have gone through this process. Consider that in 2003, less than 7,000 people out of the roughly $140,000 who became naturalized French citizens came from North and South America. The vast majority of immigrants came from poor, mostly African, countries. Out of roughly 3.5 million immigrants living in France, Americans have a contingent of only 31,000 (less than 1% of the total). Based on that number, it is possible that as few as 1,000 Americans become French citizens every year... So you might as well be looking at a needle in a haystack.

Thanks for those figures. You confirm what my limited reading was telling. Me. There is probably Buckley's Chance that I would ever get French citizenship.
 
Thanks for those figures. You confirm what my limited reading was telling. Me. There is probably Buckley's Chance that I would ever get French citizenship.

Actually what the numbers say is that very few Americans try to get the French citizenship... It says nothing about your chances of success.
 
You do have to be able to communicate in French. I am not sure whether fluency is required.

I'm thinking you are right and as I said, we had an office in Toulouse, and folks who worked there for many years and most pretty fluent in French but none of the 5 or so that I know have been able to gain citizenship. But as I recall, the local prefecture (or whatever the local authority was) had total authority on things involving residency and I guess it was up to them to decide whether your French was "up to truffle" so to speak.
 
Introduction page and menu for residence

This is something I have had bookmarked for a while. Also Firedreamer can probably confirm, but taxes in France are quite high aren't they, so not sure you would want to volunteer. I can remember when DH worked in Paris, his payslip seemed to take a ream of paper to detail all the deductions.

That's true and this is one of the reasons why we see little immigration from rich countries like the US. Consider a roughly 20% VAT, a wealth tax, fairly high "social taxes" (the equivalent of payroll taxes in the US but with a broader revenue base) and a pretty steep income tax system. Hardly enticing for (generally) well-off Americans. Actually what we are seeing is well-off French citizens leaving...
 
I'm thinking you are right and as I said, we had an office in Toulouse, and folks who worked there for many years and most pretty fluent in French but none of the 5 or so that I know have been able to gain citizenship. But as I recall, the local prefecture (or whatever the local authority was) had total authority on things involving residency and I guess it was up to them to decide whether your French was "up to truffle" so to speak.

Where they expats or immigrants? If they were expats and were being paid by a US employer, then they did not qualify for citizenship (remember your main source of income has to originate in France for at least 5 years in order to qualify for the citizenship).
 
That's true and this is one of the reasons why we see little immigration from rich countries like the US. Consider a roughly 20% VAT, a wealth tax, fairly high "social taxes" (the equivalent of payroll taxes in the US but with a broader revenue base) and a pretty steep income tax system. Hardly enticing for (generally) well-off Americans.

Maybe not be very enticing at the current time but just wait a couple of years and France may be inundated with immigration requests. :whistle:
 
What it comes down to is what type of visa those Americans were on. If it is an intercompany transfer they probably have no entitlement to permanent residency. It's the same in the US, there are some of the E series visas which allows you live and work here, but no entitlement to green card.
 
What it comes down to is what type of visa those Americans were on. If it is an intercompany transfer they probably have no entitlement to permanent residency. It's the same in the US, there are some of the E series visas which allows you live and work here, but no entitlement to green card.

I do not know the exact details of how our employees were paid but Firedreamer's comments make me suspect that they were merely supplied to the French airplane manufacture EADS (Airbus) and I can't recall ever knowing where their paychecks were written.

I've lost most of my contact with them after being retired for so long, but I know some were retiring and working like mad on getting residency. Don't know all the details. I've sent some emails but don't know if they are still at their old addresses.

Sounds like the only hope (since I'm retired and plan to stay that way) is to find an investment/fund transfer method.
 
What it comes down to is what type of visa those Americans were on. If it is an intercompany transfer they probably have no entitlement to permanent residency. It's the same in the US, there are some of the E series visas which allows you live and work here, but no entitlement to green card.

That is how it was with me and a couple of colleagues I knew. Step 1 was to upgrade the E visa to an H visa although I don't think that is always necessary.

When I did mine, all the application and paperwork was done in the US but I had to go out of country and go to a US Embassy to get the actual visa stamped in the passport. I did it on my next business trip to Brussels, walked into the embassy handed over the approval paperwork and they put the visa in my passport. I then applied for a Green Card and was rejected twice (as I explained before).

A year later when my colleague did the same thing his next business trip was to the UK and he took his paperwork into the US Embassy in London where they turned him down - said the US INS had got it wrong. He returned to the US on his existing E2 visa and the company lawyers decided this time that they would try straight for a Green Card and it worked :confused: (you don't have to leave the country to get a Green Card and the processes to get a Green Card are confusing enough for our lawyers to understand).
 
I don't really understand the OP's desire for citizenship vs permanent residence. In some countries, even citizenship can be stripped under certain circumstances.

Becoming a citizen only makes you a citizen on paper, but won't make you a "local" to the locals. You'll always be the American unless you can fake a realistic accent for the rest of your life.

Even if you manage to speak French fluently or Australian English with no accent, you'll still be the "American" an more likely the "rich American" which can open a whole new can of worms.

There are privileges to being a citizen of the country in which you live, mainly being able to pass your citizenship on to your children and other benefits to younger folks. Other than that, for a FIRE, I don't really see the point (this from a a dual citizen).
 
There are privileges to being a citizen of the country in which you live, mainly being able to pass your citizenship on to your children and other benefits to younger folks. Other than that, for a FIRE, I don't really see the point (this from a a dual citizen).

I agree with your post above. On your last point, it depends how important it is to you to be able to vote. If you don't care to vote and have no other relatives you want help with citizenship then no big advantage to getting citizenship in the country you are living.
 
Where they expats or immigrants? If they were expats and were being paid by a US employer, then they did not qualify for citizenship (remember your main source of income has to originate in France for at least 5 years in order to qualify for the citizenship).


Very interesting catch here FD.... when I was working in the UK, I was being paid by a US company in US $$$s into a US bank... so if income is one of the requirements, I failed...

They did put a 'bonus' in a UK account for me to live on for awhile... and I would draw money from the ATM to buy my food and stuff...

Now, don't get me wrong, the UK taxed all of that plus the cost of my flat and the other items that were 'deemed' to be income to me... I have never even come close to that years income every again :LOL:
 
I agree with your post above. On your last point, it depends how important it is to you to be able to vote. If you don't care to vote and have no other relatives you want help with citizenship then no big advantage to getting citizenship in the country you are living.

I agree and it's true in many cases, but some countries allow permanent residents to vote as well, just depends. Here in Estonia, permanent residents can vote in all municipal elections as mandated by the EU.
 
I agree and it's true in many cases, but some countries allow permanent residents to vote as well, just depends. Here in Estonia, permanent residents can vote in all municipal elections as mandated by the EU.

Very interesting - thanks.

In the USA you have to pay taxes if you are a resident but you can't vote unless you are a citizen. (Taxation without representation :) )
 
Back
Top Bottom