Community Solar Anybody?

[easysurfer]

I subscribed to a Community Solar program through my community. I should start seeing a solar credit on my electricity bill in a couple of months.

A youtube video about the topic:

 

[mrfeh]

I wish I had such an option where I live.

I'd very much like to use solar energy, but probably never will as the payback for installing it on my house is too long.

 

[easysurfer]

For me, this isn't installing but a subscription to a portion of a solar farm's energy produced that gets fed into the utility. I don't have option of putting up solar panels. Live in condo unit.

My subscription size is for +0003.40 kW. I think in summer months when there is more sun, I may see higher solar credits than the cloudy winter months.

 

[CaptTom]

Please keep us posted on how it goes.

I've been getting a lot of "hard sell" brochures and seeing lots of ads on line and in local papers for these things. Someone is spending a lot of money to try to get me to sign up.

I have to wonder, what's in it for me? I've tried reading the fine print, going to their web site and even calling. I'm still confused. Something about they build the solar farm and I get some small percentage of, not the total produced, but the credits on the total produced? Again, it's about as clear as mud, so I could have it all wrong.

I imagine it's some way to "use up" all the capital out there looking to invest in solar. That's a good thing. In fact, I'd happily buy shares in a solar farm myself. But they say there are no sign-up fees, you just get free money. That's a red flag for me.

 

[easysurfer]

Please keep us posted on how it goes.

I've been getting a lot of "hard sell" brochures and seeing lots of ads on line and in local papers for these things. Someone is spending a lot of money to try to get me to sign up.

I have to wonder, what's in it for me? I've tried reading the fine print, going to their web site and even calling. I'm still confused. Something about they build the solar farm and I get some small percentage of, not the total produced, but the credits on the total produced? Again, it's about as clear as mud, so I could have it all wrong.

I imagine it's some way to "use up" all the capital out there looking to invest in solar. That's a good thing. In fact, I'd happily buy shares in a solar farm myself. But they say there are no sign-up fees, you just get free money. That's a red flag for me.

Article on the Pros and Cons:

Community solar, also known as solar farms or solar gardens, is a solar energy program that allows multiple individuals to share the benefits of a single solar energy system. This concept was developed to provide solar energy access to people who cannot install solar panels on their own property because they lack suitable roof space, live in rented or multi-family properties or cannot afford the upfront installation costs.

Participating in a community solar project allows individuals to access clean and renewable energy while receiving credits on their electricity bills. This method also makes solar energy available to more people from different backgrounds and encourages everyone to support clean energy practices, ultimately leading to a greener future.

https://www.forbes.com/home-improvement/solar/what-is-community-solar/

I too got one of those ad flyers. Usually, I just toss out but the idea intrigued me (probably a bad thing ). After thinking, gotta be some type of scam or something, found out that can get on a wait list through my community, through the local village hall's site. That's the route I take.

The way I think about community solar, I'm still on the grid, but just that I pay for clean energy that's produced by a solar farm that's feeding in the utility. As for the the money part, I think of it kind of like if you can buy a $100 Amazon gift card for $90. That's where the solar credits come in.

It's still more fun to imagine that I have solar panels of my own now (though I do not).

 

[Sunset]

We just use Com-ed, I figure the utility gets some electricity from solar, nuclear and wind. I can't tell which electrons are from what as they all seem to work fine.

I'm reluctant to tie myself to some contract "deal" as there is the chance that the supplier will screw up and I'll be cut off of electricity, or responsible for extra large increases. Similar to what happened to folks in TX.

 

[easysurfer]

We just use Com-ed, I figure the utility gets some electricity from solar, nuclear and wind. I can't tell which electrons are from what as they all seem to work fine.

I'm reluctant to tie myself to some contract "deal" as there is the chance that the supplier will screw up and I'll be cut off of electricity, or responsible for extra large increases. Similar to what happened to folks in TX.

I'd still be getting the energy from the same utility.

If the option was like Texas (as I recall, their own grid), I agree with you that's too much a roll of the dice.

 

[OldShooter]

My nephew-in-law is a principal in a company that is putting up "solar gardens." It's a legitimate deal, but buffeted by the regulators and the regulated utilities plus highly dependent on government subsidies.

Being able to feed the electricity into the grid and what the regulated utility is forced to pay for it are big issues. Basically the grid is designed for a small number of large electricity generators, not for a large number of tiny ones. The existing connection and distribution scheme doesn't work well and the capital cost of fixing it may completely blow away any economic justification for it because of costs invisibly passed to other rate-payers. Equally importantly, the prices the regulated utilities are forced to pay for the "solar power" are sometimes so high that the innocent rate-payers are again subsidizing the scheme.

Basically what they are selling is feelgood rights, with the actual total costs hidden by distributing them to the rest of us. Oh, and there is really good money for the promoters. My nephew-in-law's company is in the process of selling their finished projects to a hedge fund.

 

[Sunset]

I'd still be getting the energy from the same utility.

...

So it's basically I can feel good about using some solar power without doing any sign up.

Someone who signs up isn't guaranteed to use solar power, they could end up getting all their juice from one of the coal plants.

 

[Chuckanut]

If the community solar array is not near to and exclusive to my neighborhood I don't see what good it does me compared to the utility company building it's own solar facility or buying from a giant solar facility. I have no ownership, and there is no guarantee that in case of a shortage, power from my community's solar program will be given to my neighborhood first. Right?

 

[Koolau]

We had rolling blackouts here on Oahu yesterday because (wait for it) there was no sun to feed the grid. Full disclosure, a couple of HECO generating plants were also down, but the lack of solar is what they basically "blamed." Note to self: Next time something goes wrong, I'm gonna blame it on the sun!

 

[easysurfer]

So it's basically I can feel good about using some solar power without doing any sign up.

Someone who signs up isn't guaranteed to use solar power, they could end up getting all their juice from one of the coal plants.

I'm not sure if you are looking at things the correct way or expecting too much. I think of the energy going out of the power company is like if you withdraw cash from a bank. Do you know if the cash was touched you get by dirty hands? The bank isn't going to have a clean cash window and a dirty cash window. But if more clean cash went into the bank (like clean energy going into the power company) then the effect overall is cleaner than all dirty.

If you know otherwise about power companies having a a clean grid for all the clean energy and a dirty grid for all the dirty energy, I now want to read about.

 

[CaptTom]

If -- and it's a big "if" -- these programs encourage investment in solar or other "clean" sources, that's great. But of course you can't tell whether your electrons were initially extracted from any particular source.

Another analogy might be a water tower (standpipe.) Water from different wells or reservoirs can be pumped there. You don't know where "your" water molecules came from. But if all they had before was a muddy, stinky reservoir, digging a new well to a cleaner aquifer is going to result in your water being cleaner.

Of course that still doesn't explain how me putting my name on a list, without any investment, is going to encourage that new solar farm (or in my analogy, new well.)

 

[RobLJ]

In general, community solar is considerably more efficient than rooftop. Rooftop is all that was available here, so that's what we did, but community is a better alternative. The levelized cost of solar is lower than coal and now probably lower than natty, and it is dropping 10-15% per year in cost. So in 5-7 years, community solar will be quite intimidating. The drop in cost of solar has been pretty similar to Moore's Law for computing chips.
So, it may not be available or practical for you now. In 5 years, that probably will change.
Edit: I'm in Nevada where there is a yuge amount of open/public land. The hillside in back of me going towards I-80 is completely vacant and will remain so, just to give a particular. In other areas, that may not be the case, although since the US is more horizontal than vertical other than in Chicago, New York City, San Francisco, etc.
Utility solar is even more efficient (ever driven west of Vegas), but you have the issue of large utilities bagholding. Cost of transmission is always the red-headed stepson--no one wants to pay for transmission capacity. Personally, I think the feds should build it out and charge over 50 years, but I'm a rationalist.

 

[threeonesix]

I wish I had such an option where I live.

I'd very much like to use solar energy, but probably never will as the payback for installing it on my house is too long.

For starters, check pricing today; costs have come way down as technology has improved tremendously over the last decade.

As for ROI ... people need to get over this. Moving to renewable forms of energy can't be about "what's it going to cost ME" anymore. Humans need to start considering the future of this planet and its inhabitants. The question shouldn't be what's it going to cost me or will I make my money back; the question HAS to be what's it going to cost humans in the future if I DON'T do it.

 

[mrfeh]

For starters, check pricing today; costs have come way down as technology has improved tremendously over the last decade.

As for ROI ... people need to get over this. Moving to renewable forms of energy can't be about "what's it going to cost ME" anymore. Humans need to start considering the future of this planet and its inhabitants. The question shouldn't be what's it going to cost me or will I make my money back; the question HAS to be what's it going to cost humans in the future if I DON'T do it.

I'm willing to pay a bit more for eco-friendly energy sources.

I'm not willing to invest $20K (or whatever it would cost to put solar on my roof) if I might be moving in a couple years.

 

[Gonz]

My condo electric bill average $45-$50/mo. in an area that's 50/50 wind and natural gas for electrical power. Can't complain.

Decided to just invest in electric companies and have them pay my bills through dividends.
I do have a 4k watt LiFePO4 solar generator and panels for emergency backup for freezer,refrigerator,cooking,staying warm/cool.etc..

 

[easysurfer]

I'm willing to pay a bit more for eco-friendly energy sources.

I'm not willing to invest $20K (or whatever it would cost to put solar on my roof) if I might be moving in a couple years.

Money savings or not does factor in my decision.

With community solar I'm thinking could be a win win. Eco-friendly energy and also should get a bit of a discount on the energy for the decision.

I've looked at more eco-friendly stuff in the past like recycled toilet paper (seriously). I'm not going to pay more and get worse quality just to do good.

I do understand threeonesix's sentiment (as may be too late already to save the world), but getting a little reward for my eco-friendly choice is a factor.

 

[threeonesix]

I'm willing to pay a bit more for eco-friendly energy sources.

I'm not willing to invest $20K (or whatever it would cost to put solar on my roof) if I might be moving in a couple years.

It doesn't cost that much anymore, depending where you live. But that's still a selfish attitude and as long as those persist we'll never accomplish what matters to the future. I'm not trying to be offensive, I'm trying to make people understand that this attitude is no longer acceptable to humanity. Alternative renewable energy availability drives up the value of the house, depending on the buyer. Bankers are starting to change their ways as well. Just had this discussion last night with a friend of mine who is a President of Emprise Bank in Kansas. He said they are starting to include solar value in home value assessments.

 

[OldShooter]

Curmudgeon here I guess, but it is factually true that the statistical impact of individual actions like we're talking about here is negligible -- below the rounding error. Further, the capital investment to create and use these small-scale generators would probably be better used to build economically significant generators, whether solar, wind, or nuclear.

 

[CRLLS]

We had a mail flyer about 6 months ago about changing our electric energy supplier to some "green energy" supplier. When I looked into it, their offered energy cost was about 2x the energy ost we are now paying thru ComEd. We are saving a fair amount with ComEd by paying hourly. According to ComEd, most of the months, including A/C months, our use is below our most efficient neighbors. In the Winter months I heat a garage workshop to ~50 deg via electric heater so then we are above average. Still, on an annual basis we save money.

If solar or wind were competitive here, sure I would change. It is all about the $$ to us.

 

[Chuckanut]

A few new coal power plants in India or China wipe out all of the carbon reduction from the one billion dollars state taxpayers are paying towards are new carbon tax.

The reality is that excess carbon and warming are a global problem and need to be dealt with at the Federal level for any progress to be made on a global level. In the meantime, buckle up. I do my part by driving a hybrid, combining trips and avoiding joy riding for the fun of it. I just installed a heat pump that reduced monthly kilowatt consumption by 700 kw last month compared to the average for the previous three years. I turn light off when I leave the room, avoid wasting hot water, etc. etc. etc. etc.

What we need is a program to make large scale alternative cleaner energy sources affordable to all the countries in the world. Otherwise what we do in the US, Canada, Europe is not going to help much.

 

[GrayHare]

Solar is an uphill battle since many of the public distrust climate science. The law of unintended consequences even upended well-meaning clean air regulations that scrubbed sulfates from fossil fuel emissions. Removing sulfates did reduce smog, but it also reduced the cooling sulfates that counterbalance CO2. Sadly, without those regs, the planet would not be warming as much. Now, warming is deemed the more severe consequence. https://skepticalscience.com/global-cooling-mid-20th-century-advanced.htm

 

[Koolau]

For starters, check pricing today; costs have come way down as technology has improved tremendously over the last decade.

As for ROI ... people need to get over this. Moving to renewable forms of energy can't be about "what's it going to cost ME" anymore. Humans need to start considering the future of this planet and its inhabitants. The question shouldn't be what's it going to cost me or will I make my money back; the question HAS to be what's it going to cost humans in the future if I DON'T do it.

That question has too many variables. Nor can ROI can ever be ignored.

 

[Aerides]

Proselytizing never works as well as those doing it thinks it will. It often has the opposite effect.

I'm all for solar, and we've had quotes within the past year. But where I live that means a new roof (don't yet need) and an installation investment, for a home I may very well sell in 5 years. So we'll look at it down the road.

(yes I recycle, reuse and reduce my plastics, watch my water and electric usage - there are many other things one can do that do add up when more of us do them).