Cool FIRE article in MSN Money

[YVRRocketSurgery]

It would be more interesting to me to see articles on people that retired in their 30s several decades ago, with the same kind of inflation adjusted nest eggs, through up and down markets, and a smattering of life's ups and downs - kids, college, divorce, braces, illness - and see how they are doing now and what if anything they learned in hindsight.

I was thinking the same thing. However, I wonder if this early retirement extreme (retiring in your 30's or early 40's) from a working class background is more of a phenomenon of the last 15-20 years and as such, only has limited data. However, there seems to be quite a number of blog by people that retired early extreme. Most of the ones I've read, handled the 2008 market meltdown well and have managed with young kids fine but haven't encountered issues such as divorce or serious illness.

 

[purplesky]

Go Curry Cracker! - Spend Little, Save More, Travel the World. Go Curry Cracker!Go Curry Cracker! | Spend Little, Save More, Travel the World. Go Curry Cracker!

I think that couple of software engineers retired at 38. I can not see any reason why high earning couple that lived on 2k month while working could not do it.

Now they live on 4-5k a month.

BTW I love their thoughts on Renting versus owning. Renters For Life - Go Curry Cracker!Go Curry Cracker!

These stories are everywhere now and they are just trying to get eyeballs on blogs and ears on podcasts.

Its just another fake millennial fantasy to retire early these days just like in the high flying 90s when you saw article after article about people retiring at age 50. Didn't happen.

Yes maybe some VERY high income couples can pull this off closer to age 40 without kids. Thats an additional 10 years of saving cash.

But this couple has a math problem. Its fake. But that MSN article will sure drive traffic to their blog.

 

[rodi]

I think these couples (bruno, gcc) are doing things right - they've analyzed the trade off and are flexible with their spending - willing to tighten the belt when necessary.

GCC had atypical (for US) medical expenses with the pregnancy and birth - there's a post on that. Because they did it all in Taiwan. Even with my high end, work provided health care insurance, my copays and out of pocket were higher for childbirth than theirs - and I did not do IVF. A case where location (and citizenship) is everything.

Since I am not leading a nomadic life (by choice) I find there *are* some fixed expenses with kids. My kids are 13 and 15. Health insurance is several hundred a month for them - and that's with a HDHP. Factor in out of pocket/deductible... it goes up more. The OOP has gone up as they've grown up and do more sports/activities (and get the related injuries....)

I've also reached the point where grocery bills are going up. Teenage boys eat a lot. Between inflation and ravenous teenagers - we're spending $40/week more than we were last year.

Travel is more expensive - especially if you travel by air. Airfare for our "trip of a lifetime" last summer was huge. We rented larger apartments (9 weeks of travel, we needed *some* privacy and space from our teenagers.). But - they were able to get student discounts, or free entry, to many of the sites we visited. And some of the train fares (about 20% of them) were reduced price. Another factor of having school age kids and how it impacts the travel budget - we're forced into high season. Looking forward to them being in college and having the freedom to do shoulder season/last minute bargain traveling.

Folks who hang out here know that it is possible to live frugally, but still have a great lifestyle... and save lots of money in the process.. It's possible to do that with kids, as well... but the savings might not be *quite* as great.

 

[purplesky]

If you are a high earning engineer couple in the USA, it happens every day. Or an investment banker, or management consulting. That's what, 1% of the workforce? I did it in a much higher tax environment, as a single not-so-frugal person. A few others here did it as well.

It's not realistic for the other 99%. Starbucks might save your life but it won't get you retired early.

It takes money to make money. According to the article I didn't get the impression they made Google engineer or investment banker type incomes for any extended period of time.

The guy was unemployed for a stretch and was inspired to never ever work again.

I love their idea. But its just not reality for middle-class earners in 2016.

So I guess their parents or Canada paid for their college. That would have helped their savings path but the math does not work.

And the Roth IRA conversion ladder was a real laugher.

Its like a fake Facebook profile.

All the money websites get eyeballs with these retire early fantasy stories.

 

[MichaelB]

This is fake crap.

Can't agree with you there. If there's one thing about crap, it's never fake. Always real.

 

[purplesky]

Can't agree with you there. If there's one thing about crap, it's never fake. Always real.

A sucker is born every minute on the internet.

 

[RobbieB]

Sorry, but fake crap will always be around and will always be sold.

You can also get fake puke and blood too -

 

[rodi]

And the Roth IRA conversion ladder was a real laugher.

Why is that real laughter? You can withdraw Roth principle (not the growth) after 5 years. So converting a chunk of IRA to ROTH every year - lets you start accessing the previously IRA/401k money after 5 years. Do it every year - you have a ladder.

why is that funny?

 

[photoguy]

I think the couple in the OP's article is a good example of how living in HCOL area can be advantageous to ER.

Their trajectory wasn't that much different from my own. I started work later (didn't enter the workforce until nearly 30), but we still finished in a little more than 10 years. Roughly similar income. We also sold our home in bay area as it wasn't feasible to FIRE otherwise.

By US standards as a whole, they are making a ton of money, but 200k is not unusual for dual income couple in the bay area. It might even be considered low.

Math wise, our yearly spend was roughly 70-80k (not including income taxes but including property tax) and we saved everything else. We benefited immensely from the meltdown as our income continued to increase and we continued to shovel money into the markets.

I was unemployed for a few stretches (layoff + leave of absence). But this turned out to be financially advantageous as I got severance and signing bonus from my new employer.

If they went to school in Canada, they probably paid similar tuition to a US state undergrad program. The big advantage with being Canadian, in terms of FIRE, is that they can cut long-tail risk in medical expenses by having the option to return Canada.

Obviously very few people retire at their age. But definitely achievable for dinks in good careers.

 

[purplesky]

Why is that real laughter? You can withdraw Roth principle (not the growth) after 5 years. So converting a chunk of IRA to ROTH every year - lets you start accessing the previously IRA/401k money after 5 years. Do it every year - you have a ladder.

why is that funny?

Oh It can be done. But since this is a fantasy story about 2 very young people who supposedly saved 1 million(minus $270k for the new house) and supposedly retired it is funny that they somehow avoided penalties and were able to get to their money without tax issues at age 30. Paint a perfect picture.

I take issue with the main stream media selling the millennial generation that

this retire by age 30 fantasy is even close to realistic. It is ridiculous.

There is a minimalist and frugal lifestyle movement that is wonderful for people
and I am frugal myself.

But its smoke and mirrors. This couple is not retired. Its called we have a blog and want blog traffic before we go back to work.

 

[frayne]

Good for them, smart kids with a plan and the discipline to execute it. They realized early the insanity of acquiring things you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you don't like, also known as the American Dream to many.

 

[teej1985]

Oh It can be done. But since this is a fantasy story about 2 very young people who supposedly saved 1 million(minus $270k for the new house) and supposedly retired it is funny that they somehow avoided penalties and were able to get to their money without tax issues at age 30. Paint a perfect picture.

I take issue with the main stream media selling the millennial generation that

this retire by age 30 fantasy is even close to realistic. It is ridiculous.

There is a minimalist and frugal lifestyle movement that is wonderful for people
and I am frugal myself.

But its smoke and mirrors. This couple is not retired. Its called we have a blog and want blog traffic before we go back to work.

Sounds like you are being the internet retirement police to me. Their new 'job' is running their blog, sure. But they don't have to answer to anybody except their readers. There's no shame in that and it is something that anyone can do...if they are willing to take the risk, if they write well, and they have something interesting to say. Doesn't hurt to have the head start of a well compensated dual income traditional career....

 

[purplesky]

Sounds like you are being the internet retirement police to me. Their new 'job' is running their blog, sure. But they don't have to answer to anybody except their readers. There's no shame in that and it is something that anyone can do...if they are willing to take the risk, if they write well, and they have something interesting to say. Doesn't hurt to have the head start of a well compensated dual income traditional career....

Shame on the media for selling this retire early fantasy to the millennial generation. Its just like a get rich quick mentality.

I have a millennial in college now and his response to the article is "why give up high paying careers when you could really build true real wealth" working longer. They stopped way short of true portfolio security at an early age.

I don't have a problem with this couple at all. More power to them. But they are not retired so don't tell me they are.

My original point is that this whole idea of retiring at age 30 is a joke and its a headline to get people to click on a story.

Its interesting how defensive people are getting on here because I am calling out how ridiculous this is.

I sure hope mom and dad didn't pay for those college degrees because that sure was a waste of money.
How long did it take mom and dad to earn that money to pay for their college.

If my kid gave up a career at age 30 in chemical engineering to drive to Costa Rica in a 4 runner and sit on their butt and then hangout in a craft brewery with other non working hipsters I would want my cut of the 1 million.

 

[rodi]

purplesky - I wonder why their choices bother you so much. They don't sugar coat the challenges (having to live SUPER frugally - not buy into commercialism, etc.) But they point out there ARE choices. Not everyone needs 2 cars, a cuisinart, a juicer, jetski's, etc... You can *choose* to spend less and gain more free time.

I have no problem with the message. I wonder why you do? That's not snark - that's true curiousity - why does their discussion of the choices they made upset you so much?

 

[bclover]

I am really getting sick of these "millennial saved big money and retired early stories."

So 2 middle class income earners supposedly stashed 1 million away and are now retired. Yes sure. Happens every day in America.

Seriously. The math does not work. Sorry, just not buying another early 30's millennial retired early story on the internet.

So they spent $270k on a house. WOW! And its near cool craft breweries and awesome art galleries. How neat!

Also, they are going to rent out their new house on AirBnB and travel in the summer.

Do not buy into this early retirement fantasy that is being sold to the millennial generation. This is fake crap.

I simply don't understand these articles. So what!!! what are they trying to prove? what that they are some how superior because they have a 15 year old car and sleeping in it??

Me, I have more respect for my neighbor. Had two kids and when tragedy stuck her family adopted 3 more. She is a stay at home mom and they sacrifice knowing they will probably not retire early.

I have no problem with their choices. but neither do I feel the need to have a article on them as if they are the "poster kids' for good decisions.

So for me this story wasn't "cool", it was a serious, "must be a slow news day"

 

[razztazz]

If you are a high earning engineer couple in the USA, it happens every day. Or an investment banker, or management consulting. That's what, 1% of the workforce? I did it in a much higher tax environment, as a single not-so-frugal person. A few others here did it as well.

Ahem. That's called statistically insignificant. Everybody here arguing against purplesky's position is only making his point for him. Or her.

 

[purplesky]

purplesky - I wonder why their choices bother you so much. They don't sugar coat the challenges (having to live SUPER frugally - not buy into commercialism, etc.) But they point out there ARE choices. Not everyone needs 2 cars, a cuisinart, a juicer, jetski's, etc... You can *choose* to spend less and gain more free time.

I have no problem with the message. I wonder why you do? That's not snark - that's true curiousity - why does their discussion of the choices they made upset you so much?

I don't really care about this millennial couple specifically.

But I am annoyed that people are somehow buying into this perception or trend that you can work 10 years and just live off the savings.

As others have stated a very high income earner could do it but I think the media is doing great harm to the millennial generation by selling this lie to get web traffic.

Building wealth takes decades. Even at a 100k income level.

Its a marathon.

 

[ProspectiveBum]

If you spend any time on the FinancialIndepedence sub-reddit, there ARE an awful lot of millennials who seem to have wildly unrealistic FI plans (e.g. amassing 400k and expecting that to carry them from 30-67 isn't uncommon). Pointing out that they may not be so fit and healthy at 50 as they are at 25, and living on $16K per year may get tiresome as they age isn't well-received.

That said, this couple doesn't strike as me that type. They've got a reasonable nest egg, with plans for additional income streams. Smart kids, with options to return to gainful employment if necessary. If anything, I'm a little envious at how unencumbered they are.

 

[Fedup]

I don't really care about this millennial couple specifically.

But I am annoyed that people are somehow buying into this perception or trend that you can work 10 years and just live off the savings.

As others have stated a very high income earner could do it but I think the media is doing great harm to the millennial generation by selling this lie to get web traffic.

Building wealth takes decades. Even at a 100k income level.

Its a marathon.

Try $300k-400k. If you make that much, most likely you live in a high COL. Some of my renters make that much, plus stock options, some from FANG companies. They are still renting, granted they own a small home, in not so nice area with good school district. But they are in their 40s, Berkeley grads for Haas and engineering. Not easy.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

If you spend any time on the FinancialIndepedence sub-reddit, there ARE an awful lot of millennials who seem to have wildly unrealistic FI plans (e.g. amassing 400k and expecting that to carry them from 30-67 isn't uncommon). Pointing out that they may not be so fit and healthy at 50 as they are at 25, and living on $16K per year may get tiresome as they age isn't well-received.

That said, this couple doesn't strike as me that type. They've got a reasonable nest egg, with plans for additional income streams. Smart kids, with options to return to gainful employment if necessary. If anything, I'm a little envious at how unencumbered they are.

If I had to guess, I would say for some with the $400K life will indeed probably work out as planned and they will be fine anyway, and some will get divorced during a down market, assets cut in half from the market and half from the divorce, be on disability for some reason or another, not much SS because of a lack of work years and end up in a panic in their old age. I know real people the panic part has happened to, or something very similar. It is not always a choice to go back to a high paying career exactly when one needs the money either because of health, age, rusty job skills or some combination. So as the saying goes, make hay while the sun shines.

I can see the other side as well, though. I would just go for more of a balance. I'm a big fan of consuming less and downshifting. I wish we'd done that years sooner ourselves. Personally, I would just put more pad in my plan than many of these bloggers seem to do.

 

[petershk]

I get that there's a fantastical element to ER at 30 that is marketed... but it's TINY compared to the fantastical element that buying big houses, big cars and new stuff will make you happier, sexier and better. So let's be intellectually honest about where the loudest message is coming from.

A big part of ER at 30-40 is luck. Luck you are born in a safe country with good infrastructure. Luck that you don't have terrible things happen to you early. Luck in the market. Etc
But.. there are many well documented example of people who went from 0 to retirement in 10 years with fairly normal incomes. Yes... they got lucky and yes they made hard choices but it's not a fantasy... it's math.

If you save 50% of your post tax income for 10-15 years and you get an average market performance then assuming the next 80 years support a 3-4% withdrawal rate, you can retire fairly safely. People can argue whether or not it's possible in practical terms but the math is fact based. Mathematically it's totally possible. Period.

People can also argue that no one can actually do it and anyone who claims it is lying. That's fine, we can't know what people do behind the scenes but it's interesting that there's a general assumption of deceit while there's easy acceptance the other way.

People will also debate how much people need a year to live on but that is also a HUGE range. There are people who can barely get by on 150k and there are people who live decently on 40k. I think there is a minimum but it's VERY diverse.

My goal in sharing the article was to show that there's a huge education gap in what actions are needed to retire early beyond luck. Mostly they deal with not scaling your cost of living prioritizing saving, simplifying investments and managing taxes and fees. I would replace my 4 year degree with that information at the age of 22 all day long and I am confident if people generally behaved that way the % of early financially independent people would be much higher.

I'd WAY rather have young people living frugally and saving more chasing an early retirement goal than spending every penny and buying lots of useless stuff chasing a happiness goal... the second seems WAY less real to me...

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[bclover]

I get that there's a fantastical element to ER at 30 that is marketed... but it's

My goal in sharing the article was to show that there's a huge education gap in what actions are needed to retire early beyond luck. Mostly they deal with not scaling your cost of living prioritizing saving, simplifying investments and managing taxes and fees. I would replace my 4 year degree with that information at the age of 22 all day long and I am confident if people generally behaved that way the % of early financially independent people would be much higher.

I'd WAY rather have young people living frugally and saving more chasing an early retirement goal than spending every penny and buying lots of useless stuff chasing a happiness goal... the second seems WAY less real to me...

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

Can I ask you some thing though? at 22 you would have done it?? when I was in my 20's people had pensions, I remember hearing about IRA's in the early 80's but my parents definitely did not have one and my first job out of college, teaching for the city on NY there were no 401K's

Sorry, while I don't think I need "stuff", no way was I going to be happy ever living in my car just to save money.



So for me I want my son's to be middle of the road, yes I want them to live below their means but i also don't want my daughter in law schleping a baby down 2 flights of steps to do laundry because they don't want to burn electricity to dry clothes.

I enjoyed my young adult years. I'm glad my sister and I splurged for orchestra seats to see my favorite Broadway play for my 30th birthday. My mother in law is a huge Barbra Streisand fan so we'll splurge and get 3 ( my sister in law and I are splitting the bill) tickets at 500 bucks a pop when she comes to Philly in August


I really just don't understand the objective behind these articles, are they suppose to be "motivational"

 

[RobbieB]

People are into "extremes" now, the more extreme the better.

Man retires at 50 - so what?

Man retires at 30 - Fantastic!

 

[petershk]

I'm not sure if I would have or not. Probably not. But then I forgot most stuff I learned in college too

I also would not live how they live. But that's separate from whether it's objectively OK or not (I think people should live how they feel satisfied... even my own kids) or if it's possible.

I think what one person loves and needs another hates and avoids.

As for why the article is written... obviously to drive readership to the paper... that's why all articles are written . So if the bar for an article being written is non commercial information there isn't much worth reading .

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

 

[Golden sunsets]

How this couple saved $1 million and retired in their 30s Summary: It's the story of freedomwithbruno.com (if you follow that blog at all) who are an early 30s couple that went from debt to ER. The article is decent... nothing amazing... the COMMENTS are gold. It reminds me that most of America (and probably the world) believes that it's impossible to save money unless you are living in misery and that someone actually not upgrading their life and spending every penny is somehow nuts. I tend to frequent ER sites and talk to many ER people so I forget what the "normal" world looks like.

This couple is just taking a break from their careers. They probably hated SF and its HCOL. I notice they've picked a tech hub with a relatively LCOL for their next gig. I'll bet they next announce a pregnancy and one parent stays home (and maintains their blog) while the other takes on a new job. Perhaps they'll swap off.