Copper pipe pinhole leak. Trouble ahead?

Pinhole leaks are easy to deal with, but after we had a couple that appeared at very inconvenient times - one the morning we were leaving for a vacation, the other occurring while we were on vacation and giving a section of the basement a good soaking -the unfinished part of the basement - we decided it was worth it to "blow the dough" to not have to deal with this issue again and replaced all the copper plumbing with PVC.
 
This thread is scaring me. I (personally) replaced all of the galvanized iron pipe in our 1929 house with copper about 15 years ago. I figured I was done forever!


I did use thick-wall copper (type L, if memory serves), so I guess I have that going for me!
 
At house age 30, we had one pinhole leak in copper pipe. It was in the hot water vertical running down from water heater output down to the heavy-wall copper tubing that goes under the slab. For me it was the easiest to replace the whole section, along with ell on top and horizontal pipe stub with male thread adapter that the water heater flexible attaches to. All soldered of course, no problem. Replacing the whole thing gave me the luxury of working from an open end, rather than trying to splice in a middle with no give.

It's been some years since, no further problems. On that section of pipe that had the pin hole, there were an awful lot of green flux stains. What did the guy do, apply it with a caulking gun? Spray? Never saw so much stains before. I certainly don't do that. Other remodeling work I have done on this house has not turned up any over-fluxed messes like that.
 
The drains pipes were 1 1/2" feeding into 3" - all copper. I don't know how much copper cost in 1966 when it was built, but I was tempted to rip it out and sell it before I sold the house. :LOL:
Copper waste lines were more common in 50s and 60s. Apparently copper was "cheap." Remember the 70s? Copper prices went nuts! And so did gold and silver. This is when someone thought wiring houses with aluminum would be a good idea. (It was a bad idea.) Dad used to pick up scrap wire at job sites during this time and let me strip it. He'd take it to the junk man and give me a few bucks.

This thread is scaring me. I (personally) replaced all of the galvanized iron pipe in our 1929 house with copper about 15 years ago. I figured I was done forever!

I did use thick-wall copper (type L, if memory serves), so I guess I have that going for me!
Rest easy. If you put in L, you are likely OK. Smart move! I only have type L up to my pressure reducer, the rest is M, which is typical. With L, you probably are done forever.

On that section of pipe that had the pin hole, there were an awful lot of green flux stains. What did the guy do, apply it with a caulking gun? Spray? Never saw so much stains before. I certainly don't do that. Other remodeling work I have done on this house has not turned up any over-fluxed messes like that.
I tried to capture it in my picture with little luck. This section of my pipe was at a low point on the run. There appeared to be something pooled inside. I think it was an old flux pool. So, I'm hoping that was part of the issue.
 
Did some more internet snooping this morning and found a good discussion on pinhole leaks, flux, and poor installation.

This picture is very similar to what I saw.
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Nice discussion here: https://www.ridgidforum.com/forum/m...ing-and-fabrication/29268-copper-flux-pinhole The pictures there are pretty cool because the plumber used solderless, press-fit fittings. This is new to me. It is not push-fit like Sharkbite. You have to use a tool (it is a Ridgid forum after all) to press the copper. I think my Dad is rolling over in his grave. Wait, take that back. He'd be fine with it. I saw him lose his mind in 1990 when he saw a polybutylene installation here in NC, which was unknown in Chicago. He said: "Glad I'm retiring next year." Turns out he was right.
 
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The press copper has been around in Europe for at least a decade, my plumber installed it to branch off from the water meter for a new distribution pipe where I was doing a complete plumbing renovation in one unit in a triplex with common water supply piping.

Very slick, the rest after that connection was propex. I looked into buying a tool because I recently had a pinhole leak in the basement unit in one of our properties. Unfortunately the tool in $2k, so I won’t be getting one. I do use propex as much as I can when redoing supply piping, the expander system is fantastic compared to the crimp pex.
 
In the house we are building ourselves, I was planning to go with PEX....maybe a good idea?
 
In my neighborhood many of the houses that are roughly 30 years old have experienced numerous copper plumbing leaks. These leaks have been attributed to cheap materials as well as poor water quality eroding the pipes. The houses are plumbed with the pipes under the concrete slab and stubbed up through the concrete.


The solution for many has been to have a PVC pipe run up the exterior wall and turned into the attic from where the plumbing is replaced from the top down using PEX.
 
About 15 years ago, I had not one but two small pin hole leaks, in one of my rentals. Small drips were appearing above kitchen sink and cabinets. At first I thought it was the bathroom tile leaking above, so I pulled up a lot of suspicious looking tile, put new backer board up, re tiled, then grouted, and sealed. Amen, I thought.

Leak returned next day. I took out kitchen cabinet, and found a lot of damage to the plaster ceiling, the pipes were in the bulkhead! Without tearing everything apart, I could stick my head up in the hole to see, but it was too small to get my hands and head up to do the work. I cut out the small piece of copper, and put in a compression fitting. I let everything dry up, repaired the hole, painted and rehung the cabinets.Amen, I thought.

Until I got another call, the wall was wet coming down from the bulkhead behind sink. Off goes the kitchen cabinets, and into the wall. Another pin hole! This time, I replace 5 foot of copper from the bulkhead down to the sink. repair the wall, paint, put kitchen cabinets back up. Amen, I thought.


Until 3 years ago, when same tenant calls, says it's baaack! Well, I knew where to go this time. Down go the cabinets, I open up the bulkhead on either end and in middle, and replace 8 foot of copper from the 15yo 5 foot piece over to main trunk line. Let it dry, resealed holes, painted, put kitchen cabinets back up. Amen, I say......

Sorry you had to go through this, I thought I was the only poor soul that had this problem. And it's the only major problem with a rental I ever had, and hopefully, it was my last.
 
In the house we are building ourselves, I was planning to go with PEX....maybe a good idea?



We’re in the middle of completely renovating all four of our bathrooms. Two down and two in progress. There’s been a little rerouting of piping required and the plumbers have used pex piping. I was amazed to see how the installation works. They cut the pipe to length and then use a specialized tool to expand the ends and then insert fittings/connectors. The pipe then contracts to form a watertight seal with the connector. It is apparently a huge time and labor saver as compared to copper. It also won’t be damaged in the event that the pipe freezes. If I were building a new house, I’d definitely go with pex.
 
My neighborhood is roughly 30 years old, and the builder seems to have put copper fresh water lines everywhere. If I experienced a pinhole leak and was deciding if my next move would be more extreme than a one spot fix, I'd poll the community on our FB page, figuring I'm probably not the first, and my house is probably not the worst. If nobody else reports lots of failures, I'd put it to bed with the single patch.
 
PEX should be good. So far, the track record is solid. It is a very different material than the polybutylene. Not all "plastic" is the same.

I've only worked with the crimp PEX. This thread got me looking at the expansion method. Very interesting and slick! That's what keeps me coming back, the incredible knowledge base you all have out there.

I have confidence in the crimp method, but you have to get things aligned, and you are supposed to calibrate the crimp with a gauge each day.

If all hell breaks loose in my house, I'd go with a PEX repipe without reservations.
 
My last house has all copper plumbing including the drain pipes. When it got to about 40 years old the horizontal portions of the drain pipes started leaking. I had to cut out the ceiling of the first floor and put in plastic with rubber couplings to fix it. Nasty job.
The amount of chlorine in your water (if your water comes from a municipality, not well water) has a direct bearing on how fast copper and brass pipes corrode. The chlorine reacts with the copper, forming cupric chloride which is water soluble and washes away and slowly pits or errors the pipe. I think some municipalities may add corrosion inhibitors to minimize this, though.
 
Pinhole leaks are easy to deal with, but after we had a couple that appeared at very inconvenient times - one the morning we were leaving for a vacation, the other occurring while we were on vacation and giving a section of the basement a good soaking -the unfinished part of the basement - we decided it was worth it to "blow the dough" to not have to deal with this issue again and replaced all the copper plumbing with PVC.
We live in one of 3 19-story apartment buildings built in 1966. In 2009, all the copper was replaced by PVC owing to multiple leaks over the past few years.
 
The amount of chlorine in your water (if your water comes from a municipality, not well water) has a direct bearing on how fast copper and brass pipes corrode. The chlorine reacts with the copper, forming cupric chloride which is water soluble and washes away and slowly pits or errors the pipe. I think some municipalities may add corrosion inhibitors to minimize this, though.
I was on a well, so no chlorine, but it was only the drain pipes that rotted, so I guess it was due to chemicals in the grey / black water.
 
We had pinhole leaks in our copper tubing and found out that we had acidic water (we are on a well). Had to have all the tubing replaced and an acid neutralizer installed. The whole job was around 8K.
 
In the house we are building ourselves, I was planning to go with PEX....maybe a good idea?



Go for the uponor propex. In contrast to crimp pex there is no need to calibrate anything. Another advantage I’d that you can expand the pipe and collar in a convenient location outside your stud cavity and then push it on your fitting if it is in a tight spot.
 
About 15 years ago, I had not one but two small pin hole leaks, in one of my rentals. Small drips were appearing above kitchen sink and cabinets. At first I thought it was the bathroom tile leaking above, so I pulled up a lot of suspicious looking tile, put new backer board up, re tiled, then grouted, and sealed. Amen, I thought.

Leak returned next day. I took out kitchen cabinet, and found a lot of damage to the plaster ceiling, the pipes were in the bulkhead! Without tearing everything apart, I could stick my head up in the hole to see, but it was too small to get my hands and head up to do the work. I cut out the small piece of copper, and put in a compression fitting. I let everything dry up, repaired the hole, painted and rehung the cabinets.Amen, I thought.

Until I got another call, the wall was wet coming down from the bulkhead behind sink. Off goes the kitchen cabinets, and into the wall. Another pin hole! This time, I replace 5 foot of copper from the bulkhead down to the sink. repair the wall, paint, put kitchen cabinets back up. Amen, I thought.


Until 3 years ago, when same tenant calls, says it's baaack! Well, I knew where to go this time. Down go the cabinets, I open up the bulkhead on either end and in middle, and replace 8 foot of copper from the 15yo 5 foot piece over to main trunk line. Let it dry, resealed holes, painted, put kitchen cabinets back up. Amen, I say......

Sorry you had to go through this, I thought I was the only poor soul that had this problem. And it's the only major problem with a rental I ever had, and hopefully, it was my last.

I have nothing to say but "SORRY." Sucks that you had to go through that.
 
Interesting... I have never had any pin hole leak issues with copper. Galvanized pipe unfortunately yes. It seems to rust/rot from the inside out. Particularly the horizontal runs...
 
30 year old neighborhood here in Florida with copper plumbing and most of the homes have been repiped. Consensus of plumbers has been the frequency of lightning strikes in proximity to houses causes the pin hole leaks here.
 
30 year old neighborhood here in Florida with copper plumbing and most of the homes have been repiped. Consensus of plumbers has been the frequency of lightning strikes in proximity to houses causes the pin hole leaks here.

Really? That idea, uh, doesn't seem to hold water. :LOL:

Seriously, most FL water comes from underground, where the water has been, uh, creating voids in the limestone for eons.

Electrolysis doesn't really work with the lightning strike idea. Lightning in FL is a serious issue, and does travel through the ground, so I get where they could come up with this. I remember one tragic death when I lived down there. I surveyor was pounding a metal stake in the ground as a bolt hit nearby. Tragic.
 
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Go for the uponor propex. In contrast to crimp pex there is no need to calibrate anything. Another advantage I’d that you can expand the pipe and collar in a convenient location outside your stud cavity and then push it on your fitting if it is in a tight spot.

I wasn't familiar with this, but found info on youtube. Impressive. I really like that you can simply inspect the joint and know if it was done right or not - if not expanded, you can't get the part on, so you'll see it isn't in all the way. And if it is in all the way, it's good. No worries about whether the crimp wasn't done right, and might leak 10 years later.

The manual expansion tool isn't too pricey, but I think you need to manually rotate it as you expand, so that's maybe a bit iffy on technique?

https://www.amazon.com/IWISS-1-inch-ProPEX-Expander-Uponor/dp/B017SQ60F2

-ERD50.
 
I wasn't familiar about the expansion method either, until this thread. The PEX crimping tool can be a pain in tight spots. So, yeah, that's really intriguing.
 
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