Depressing Thoughts about Retirement

[dknighd]

If you have " Depressing Thoughts about Retirement"
Then perhaps you should not retire!

 

[pb4uski]

+1
The closest we have come to a bus tour are a few I scheduled independent from the cruise we were taking. The "bus" was a Mercedes van that only held 8. I have no interest in sitting in a bus made for 35-50 passengers. Waiting for the tour rep to gather all the passengers to board for the next quick stop was like watching them herd cats.

Cheers!

+2 We are not regular cruisers... until this year had only been on a 3-day and 5-day cruise on Carnival. In late April we joined two of my sisters, their husbands and another couple for a 10-day cruise of the southern Carribean on Royal Carribean. It was wonderful. IIRC there was only one day that we scheduled the same excursion (American Cup Sailing Regatta in Sint Maarten, which was the best) but we would usually meet up in a lounge about 5:45 for cocktails, then the 6:45 seating for dinner then go to the show (generally very good) and then retire for the evening.

 

[Dash man]

+2 We are not regular cruisers... until this year had only been on a 3-day and 5-day cruise on Carnival. In late April we joined two of my sisters, their husbands and another couple for a 10-day cruise of the southern Carribean on Royal Carribean. It was wonderful. IIRC there was only one day that we scheduled the same excursion (American Cup Sailing Regatta in Sint Maarten, which was the best) but we would usually meet up in a lounge about 5:45 for cocktails, then the 6:45 seating for dinner then go to the show (generally very good) and then retire for the evening.

+1
Those America’s Cup sailing excursions are a blast! We’ve done them twice. I cracked a rib the last time, but it was worth it!

 

[Koolau]

+1
Those America’s Cup sailing excursions are a blast! We’ve done them twice. I cracked a rib the last time, but it was worth it!

Sounds very exciting and rewarding. Or, maybe you had to be there.

 

[pb4uski]

+1
Those America’s Cup sailing excursions are a blast! We’ve done them twice. I cracked a rib the last time, but it was worth it!

That's too bad.

Funny story though, when you board the boat they ask you what you want to do. DW said that she didn't want to do anything and the guy responded "Ok ma'am, you will be our iceberg lookout."

 

[Fermion]

To me the depressing part is working far into your youthful years just so you have enough money to afford the liquid potato chip dispenser in a assisted living facility that costs $150,000 a year.

Working through 10 good years where you have lots of energy just to pay for a couple years of being bedridden doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

 

[pb4uski]

^^^ My 93yo DM lives in an assisted living facility that cost $50k over the last 12 months. If I took you on a tour you would think it is a nice hotel... very well kept and a great and caring staff. Just rent and 3 meals served a day would cost most of that $50k, and they check in on her each morning and evening to give her her meds.

 

[Koolau]

To me the depressing part is working far into your youthful years just so you have enough money to afford the liquid potato chip dispenser in a assisted living facility that costs $150,000 a year.

Working through 10 good years where you have lots of energy just to pay for a couple years of being bedridden doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

That is depressing. To me, it means you either w*rk less and live on less while you're still relatively young OR, perhaps better yet, enjoy the process on the way. There were certainly many times I was enjoying my life while still w*rking. I even enjoyed my w*rk many times.



Again, if you hate your j*b, get out! Settle for less money or find a j*b you enjoy. YMMV

 

[NW-Bound]

As mentioned, I have never been on a bus tour, and much prefer to do my own things, taking trains or planes in Europe, or driving a rental car (more than 20,000 km so far). I visit what interests me, stays as long or as short as I like. When we no longer can board a train with our carry-ons, maybe I will take a tour bus.

Regarding cruises, the most recent transatlantic one was only my 4th cruise. The 3 first ones were 7 nighters. This time, the 12-night trip had a segment of 6 days at sea. I was bored out of my wit, and it would be worse if I did not have a bad cold (not Covid) and spent a lot of time in bed during this 6-day stretch. Always wondered what it would be like on a transatlantic cruise since I read Nemo's posts about how he liked them. Nope, it is not for us.

Cruise itineraries with more frequent port visits would be OK, although world cruises now scare me. Nope. I may go as long as 2 weeks max.

And I prefer cruise lines that cater to older clientele. Never been on a Carnival ship and never will be. RCL, Celebrity, NCL, and MSC are OK. Even the rowdiest geezers are still tolerable to me.

 

[NW-Bound]

Back on being depressed in retirement, I guess one could be if in a dire financial strait, and has trouble making rent or buying food. In that case, it is best to keep working or find a part-time job. Else, one should find inexpensive hobbies or pastimes.

It should not cost a lot of money to entertain oneself. I can travel a lot more, but overdoing it then it becomes a chore. In any trip, when we start to miss home the last few days, we know it is about the limit for us. My wife missed her garden, and I started to think about what improvements I could make to my solar power system.

Being a technical guy, and proud of being competent till the end, I occasionally miss my work. I walked out because of the stinky politics, and have to remind myself why I quit. If I did not have the means, I would have stayed and it would be OK too I guess.

 

[NoEZmoney]

Earning an Income From My Income

I think it's different for everybody. I mean the whole idea from the time you start learning how to balance a checkbook is to figure out how to have a positive balance at the end of the month and use credit wisely. Sure we have been successful at "maintaining" our standard of living since retiring but it's not a bad way to live IMHO. We could really splurge and spend more but it's just not something we're motivated to do. Besides the standard hotel suite is pretty nice and we don't need to spend more to get a good night's sleep. First Class seating, sure we could do it but unless we can use points, it's not something we are compelled to do.

DW and I come from similar backgrounds where our parents lived paycheck-to-paycheck and never had a plan in place. In fact they "failed to plan, not planned to fail". DW and I paid attention to this growing up and we both took part time jobs in our teens to get used to the idea that if anything is "meant to be, it's up to me (us). And it stuck. BTW, when we would splurge on things like travel, we shopped around, saved, looked for shoulder seasons to avoid crowds, get lower rates and have a really high-value experience. Last 10 years or so we've increased our travel budget but still apply the same principles and do the homework before pulling the trigger.

We both talked about our retirement future waaay back in the mid-1980's, just a couple years or so after IRA's were the new thing on the block. We had determined we would be thrilled if we could "earn incomes off our saved incomes" and it's come true for us. Life is good, we may spend more down the road thanks to how well everything has been doing for us. But the ribeye taste better than the filet (IMHO) and the $12 bottle of wine isn't half-bad. I've paid more and couldn't tell the diff.

It's all relative I suppose and to each his own.

 

[Koolau]

As mentioned, I have never been on a bus tour, and much prefer to do my own things, taking trains or planes in Europe, or driving a rental car (more than 20,000 km so far). I visit what interests me, stays as long or as short as I like. When we no longer can board a train with our carry-ons, maybe I will take a tour bus.

Regarding cruises, the most recent transatlantic one was only my 4th cruise. The 3 first ones were 7 nighters. This time, the 12-night trip had a segment of 6 days at sea. I was bored out of my wit, and it would be worse if I did not have a bad cold (not Covid) and spent a lot of time in bed during this 6-day stretch. Always wondered what it would be like on a transatlantic cruise since I read Nemo's posts about how he liked them. Nope, it is not for us.

Cruise itineraries with more frequent port visits would be OK, although world cruises now scare me. Nope. I may go as long as 2 weeks max.

And I prefer cruise lines that cater to older clientele. Never been on a Carnival ship and never will be. RCL, Celebrity, NCL, and MSC are OK. Even the rowdiest geezers are still tolerable to me.

I guess I'm sorta the opposite. I like knowing that we're going to hit all the right places. Someone who more or less knows what they're doing will show us around and then herd us back onto whatever conveyance is appropriate. Then, it's off to the next place with a tour out the window on the way.



Finding my way around or driving "on the wrong side of the street" does not appeal to me. YMMV.

 

[Koolau]

Back on being depressed in retirement,

I came close last night. Our power went out about 8PM. It was just a blown transformer and neighbors across the street had power. DW and I could think of very little to do in the dark (no snickers, please). We talked for a while and then we got in the car ('cause it's air conditioned.) We drove to the mall which was closed. We drove around some old haunts in our old home town. We got bored of all that and then drove home. We realized it was cooling down since a cold front had slid through. We opened windows and got a convection going up through the attic so we were comfortable. But then, what to do?? No TV. No DVDs. We read by flashlight for a while and then gave up and went to bed at 11PM. We usually stay up to at least 1AM.



I realized that much of my FIRE was supported by (wait for it) domestic electricity. Without that, we're basically stone age - well, there are still cars, but...


I can get bored pretty quickly without my electronic stuff to entertain me. What have I let myself become?

 

[NW-Bound]

...
I can get bored pretty quickly without my electronic stuff to entertain me. What have I let myself become?

During the not-so-enjoyable stretch of 6 at-sea days on that transatlantic cruise, we both agreed that it would be more tolerable if we had the Internet so we could entertain ourselves. They gave us 600 minutes of Internet time, but when you have to wait for 1/2 hour to open up your brokerage screen to see how much the market god took from your accounts, 600 minutes did not last long.

I did not bring any book to read, because my wife already packed the carry-ons to the gills (she has amazing packing skills). Checked out the so-called "library" on the ship, and could not find anything of interest.

We could only watch so many of the ship entertainment shows, such as trivia games, newlywed games, etc... The music was often so loud it turned me off. Arghhh!

Well, one has to do anything once to see if it works for him.

 

[Koolau]

During the not-so-enjoyable stretch of 6 at-sea days on that transatlantic cruise, we both agreed that it would be more tolerable if we had the Internet so we could entertain ourselves. They gave us 600 minutes of Internet time, but when you have to wait for 1/2 hour to open up your brokerage screen to see how much the market god took from your accounts, 600 minutes did not last long.

I did not bring any book to read, because my wife already packed the carry-ons to the gills (she has amazing packing skills). Checked out the so-called "library" on the ship, and could not find anything of interest.

We could only watch so many of the ship entertainment shows, such as trivia games, newlywed games, etc... The music was often so loud it turned me off. Arghhh!

Well, one has to do anything once to see if it works for him.

One cruise was enough for us. We did the Caribbean on Carnival. We kept busy and entertained because we spent as much time in port as we did on the ship. The ship had entertainment every night. Almost 1st run movies every afternoon. Special events like wine or cheese tasting in the afternoons. Bingo after the main entertainment evenings.



So, what with shore outings, food events and on-board entertainment, we were more or less always busy. We tried to get a bit of sun time as well.



But I can imagine an Atlantic crossing could be boring.


In our case, I'd say we enjoyed our cruise, but now we've been there, done that and got the T-shirt. Don't need to repeat. Though - never say never. YMMV

 

[Unpaintedhuffhines]

I like this. A lot of calculators out there, though, ask you for % of current earnings. I feel this method is even more outlandish. For example, in my case, we live so far below our means that all of our non primary mortgage bills total about 15% of our gross earnings. We dump every other dime into early retirement (or after tax accounts). And the primary mortgage goes away before retirement.

Maybe, inherently, thats part of the rub here... we spend so little now.

And thanks for the charts and feedback to the rest. I appreciate the perspectives... We are definitely approaching our spend goals with all of the above in mind, and we are expanding it beyond our current spend (otherwise, we would have probably already retired)

100% agree. Current earrings before retirement for us was completely irrelevant. If we tried to replace that I’d work forever.

 

[NW-Bound]

Geezers and pre-geezers who have been retired for a while know how to entertain ourselves. Life, or what's left of it, is short we cannot let ourselves get bored.

I read the OP self-introduction in 2008. He was 35, so 50 now. Still young. My wife quit her work at 50, when the job pressure was too great to bear. I worked part-time from the age of 47 till 55 when I quit for real after my children were done with college. Good thing my consulting pay was good enough to survive on. And the market has been very kind to me.

I think the OP is getting closer to pulling the trigger and has a bit of anxiety about ER. It's normal. I did not go cold-turkey from full-time employment to retirement, and even had bouts of periods with no pay to let me get used to having no earned income. Even then, it took an impetus for me to take the jump.

Everybody's situation is different. One comes here to find some camaraderie, but in the end, he has to decide for him/herself. I had been through some hard times, so was somewhat confident that I would manage to survive.

 

[Katsmeow]

Was talking to a friend this weekend, and we were chatting about retirement income, and he made a pretty simple comment to me. At first, we just moved on in the conversation. But throughout the weekend, I've been thinking more and more about it, and its sort of depressing.

He said "isnt it strange that we save our entire lives so that we can retire, and we choose the goal-line as the point in time where we don't have to work to support our current way of life."

One of the fundamentals of retiring early is clearly to avoid living beyond your means, but what if what you want out of retirement involves spending more, traveling more, seeing more, doing more?

Im curious how you all approach this. Did you spend more in retirement than you did while working? Did you adjust your retirement draws to accomplish this task before you actually retired? I see many comments by retirees in these threads at how difficult of a concept it is to spend more, especially when you trained yourself for a lifetime to not life beyond your means.

Maybe the depressing part of it is knowing you'll never have enough money to ________, which I would suspect is common in most americans as we age...

And yes, part of these are shallow thoughts. But curious what others think.

I did not read the rest of the thread, but responding to this. While DH and I were working we lived a fairly high consumption lifestyle. We had a lot of expenses (3 kids!) but we certainly spent more than we "needed" to. We had a good income and enjoyed it. So we went on vacations every year, bought nice cars and houses, and ate out a lot.

When we decided to retire a little early (not super early) we realized that we would not be able to continue doing that. But, by then, there were other factors. I was in a very high stress work environment and didn't want to be. We both were more and more aware that time was more limited.

And, honestly, we had taken those vacations. We had gone to those restaurants, etc.

It has been 13 years since DH fully retired (I semi-retired at the same time and then retired fully). We know spend, I don't know, 30% of what we spent back then. That is not inflation adjusted.

So it is true. Trips we would have taken then I would no longer spend the money on. Back in the late 80s I bought a brand new Corvette. I enjoyed every minute of that car. I don't have any desire to own a Corvette any more.

Are there things that I can't afford now that I could afford when we were working? I mean, sure. But, am I unhappy or depressed about it? No. We made that choice knowingly. If we had both worked another 5 years (and didn't spend it all, of course) we would have more money now. That is true. Now, I will say that during these 13 years we ended up spending more money on some things than we had anticipated. But, a lot of that was due to choices we made.

One thing I will say is that our desire to spend and how we enjoy our time now is different. We are, well, older. I like spending time at my computer coming to places like this, or playing video games, or keeping up with current events. I like reading books on my phone. Honestly, during Covid, I got in the habit of mostly getting takeout from restaurants and we mostly do that instead of going to restaurants.

I have enjoyed travel in the past but don't have an urge to go on long, expensive trips any more. Short trips, yes. But not the big ones.

 

[Retired Expat]

I think that is an excellent attitude.

Having said that, some of us planned to spend more during retirement. We perhaps saved even more than others to do so. It wasn't a real hardship because we weren't interested in expensive cars or houses. We had our kids late which helped a lot.

Now that we're retired, our plan has come together and we do spend quite a bit more than when we were w*rking. But, since it's in the plan, it's w*rking out for us - well, just like we planned.

All of us are different and have different attitudes and goals. As long as we plan and carry out the plan, it's likely to w*rk for all of us. YMMV

Have to agree. This is all very specific to each of us and the lives we lived and want to liv in retirement. My journey was one of building a replacement passive income stream so I wouldn’t feel the pressure to accept job offers and special projects. Simply not wired to take out money from my investment account! Maybe someday but getting to even a 1% WR will be a challenge.

So for us that became a lot of real estate and rental income. The appreciation these past few years is just a great gift. Along with more spending we are finding more ways to save on those expenses. House Exchanges are one, and while we don’t do it all that often it does save us 5-10 grand a year. we travel alot but are exploring places where the dollar goes much further like Brazil or Argentina. And while there will refill prescriptions that are frightfully expensive and not covered by insurance but save thousands! Finding deals and cheap flights (usually in Business) is like a scavenger hunt or finding truly valuable things at the flea market. Takes a bit of time but feels pretty good when you make it work. You just have to know how to do it!

 

[Badger]

To me the depressing part is working far into your youthful years just so you have enough money to afford the liquid potato chip dispenser in a assisted living facility that costs $150,000 a year.

Working through 10 good years where you have lots of energy just to pay for a couple years of being bedridden doesn't make a ton of sense to me.

I don't know what the salary is for nurses but for that kind of money you would think you could have a full-time private nurse.

Cheers!

 

[sengsational]

I came close last night. Our power went out about 8PM. It was just a blown transformer ...

I get it, but that's the opposite of me. When things are routine, I'm more likely to be depressed. Once I need to innovate, then I'm able to apply uniquely human capabilities, that of creativity. I've always had an attitude of "the obstacle is the way", even before I started understanding the Greek and Roman philosophers that made that part of their lives.


And NWB, I also get the aversion to the long cruise without ports. Last fall I was on one by myself (usually have my lovely bride), and I got locked up with COVID. I practice the "would I rather be on my couch" test while traveling, and except for this trip, the answer has been "no". But I wanted this trip to be over. But this spring, a 34 night cruise with the majority of the sea days at the start, and with the bride, I would have gladly added days. We found a comfortable routine with people we met. Routine, but not the plodding routine of being home, so enough stimulation to not be boring. WRT Internet, I had cell data in port, but that was mostly used for travel logistics. I brought a memory stick with more TV shows than we could possibly watch, plus the ship had loads of good programming. We brought a small water color kit (new to us) and I brought my ukulele and met another uke player. It takes luck and planning, but I found this cruise a nice way to get out of the mental ruts that surround hanging around the house all the time.

 

[Koolau]

I don't know what the salary is for nurses but for that kind of money you would think you could have a full-time private nurse.

Cheers!

I found this site which suggests considerably more than $150K/year - since you need three shifts.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/private-duty-nurse-salary-SRCH_KO0,18.htm


I'm sure it varies, so YMMV.

 

[LateToFIRE]

I found this site which suggests considerably more than $150K/year - since you need three shifts.

https://www.glassdoor.com/Salaries/private-duty-nurse-salary-SRCH_KO0,18.htm


I'm sure it varies, so YMMV.

Have direct experience from dealing with parents' LTC issues in the past.

1) A live-in CNA (Certified Nursing Assistant) is around $90K/year. This is a trained eldercare specialist from a professional agency (so, no issues around you being an employer, insurance, taxes, etc.). Budget another $30K/year for medical equipment/supplies/etc.

By comparison:

2) A premium assisted living facility: $80K to $120K (dementia care at the high end), plus ~$60K in other medical services/equipment/supplies/etc.

3) A premium skilled nursing home: $160K to $200K, plus ~$60K extras

This is for a HCOL region. Maybe differs from what folks may have read/heard. I've lived these scenarios and managed expenses more than once. Figures might be a little stale but reflect direct experience.

If there is any good news I could give you all, its that the typical life expectancy once any of this is needed is around ~2 years. So, the numbers are shockingly huge, but it all goes south quickly - usually.

EDIT: Oh, and beware, LTC insurance, if you have it, will play a nice game of cat and mouse, dribbling benefits out as slowly as possible, well because after all their not really in the business of letting $$$ go.

 

[jazz4cash]

The "unique" part is I never heard of planning 30 years ahead to retire on your vest date. Maybe it's not unique, but it's unique to me. And I've never heard that here. YMMV

I think very differently of a ‘vest date’. Being vested does not mean you are good to go. Many plan for a 2nd career or part time employment. I actually think looking 30 yrs may be typical for members of this forum but it is fairly unique for the general population of employees with pensions. In my family I know examples of people who just assumed they’d be ‘ok’ because their older peers were ‘ok’. When they wanted to go it was a bit tougher than it had been for their peers. Almost none of these DB plans has remained stable for 30 yrs. Unions have generally had a positive impact.

 

[braumeister]

That's a lot of experience!
Can you share your favorite tour companies?

I've been on over 40 cruises with the next one scheduled for 10 days in the UK this September and another in March next year in the Caribbean. I've also been on several bus tours and basically enjoyed them so much we wanted to do another one this year but our other trips got in the way. We will do it next year with a group of friends. We also do land vacations for weeks at a time with the longest being 5 weeks, usually to a dive destination.

We are not particular about how we vacation as long as we enjoy ourselves. Not a fan of lengthy car vacations but have been known to partake on occasion. I don't ever recall following anyone leading us with a big flag though. On the bus tours we were typically able to venture out on our own and always spent two or more nights at one hotel/resort several times during the tour. Many meals were on our own as were evening libations.