Do you click “AGREE” without reading privacy policy, terms of service, or other docs?

[EastWest Gal]

A lot of people don't know that when going for a procedure at a teaching hospital, they may be practiced on by various students while unconscious. Without giving consent for that specific practice.

The practice can be for things totally unrelated to the operation/procedure and includes anal exams, pelvic exams, etc... things that some/most folks would not agree to have done by 4 or 5 random strangers for practice.

If it weren't for possibly being in the small print, it would be considered assault if it happened without consent anywhere else.

That is not true. I went through medical school, residency, then later taught students and residents. If that were to occur, it would be assault.

 

[athena53]

I've tried to read through these conditions but they're so darn vague you don't really know what they're doing. "We MAY share your information with SELECTED partners to enhance your experience..." What information? Who are the selected partners?

The scary ones for me are the DNA tests. AFAIK, I have no skeletons in my closet and neither do my blood relatives, but if law enforcement subpoenas information they'll roll over and give it to them. I'd use those services only if information were shared after my prior consent, after I'm told who gets it and what data is provided to them.

 

[athena53]

This was in my news feed this morning. Summary: When you download the McDonald's app you have to agree to terms and conditions that include arbitration of any lawsuits. Not that I have plans to sue McDonald's but they sure are covering their posteriors. In general I download few apps- only the ones I find useful on a regular basis.

 

[ncbill]

Always read all the terms and conditions before agreeing.

A South Park episode is about what might happen if you don't.

 

[swakyaby]

A lot of people don't know that when going for a procedure at a teaching hospital, they may be practiced on by various students while unconscious. Without giving consent for that specific practice.

The practice can be for things totally unrelated to the operation/procedure and includes anal exams, pelvic exams, etc... things that some/most folks would not agree to have done by 4 or 5 random strangers for practice.

If it weren't for possibly being in the small print, it would be considered assault if it happened without consent anywhere else.

This is completely false. Why do people spread such terrible rumors that terrify people going into the operating room for the first time? This unethical behavior is assault.

 

[MichaelB]

Let’s all please remember we can disagree without being disagreeable.

 

[JoeWras]

Way, way back in the dark ages of 1985, I briefly used a software package called "Interactive Easy-Flow." It was actually an excellent piece of software.

The licensing stuff has been around since the early PC days. The makers of Easy-Flow went rogue and decided enough was enough.

Today we need more of this. Alas, it has only gotten worse and this light hearted license agreement probably wouldn't fly today.

Here it is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interactive_EasyFlow

This is where the bloodthirsty licensing agreement is supposed to go, explaining that Interactive Easyflow is a copyrighted package licensed for use by a single person, and sternly warning you not to pirate copies of it and explaining, in detail, the gory consequences if you do.

We know that you are an honest person, and are not going to go around pirating copies of Interactive Easyflow; this is just as well with us since we worked hard to perfect it and selling copies of it is our only method of making anything out of all the hard work.

If, on the other hand, you are one of those few people who do go around pirating copies of software you probably aren't going to pay much attention to a license agreement, bloodthirsty or not. Just keep your doors locked and look out for the HavenTree attack shark.

It continues a bit more (you can read it all at the Wiki link) and ends with this classic line:

We didn't really want to include any disclaimer at all, but our lawyers insisted. We tried to ignore them but they threatened us with the attack shark at which point we relented.

 

[Midpack]

I would venture a guess that 99.9% of people do not read these terms of service agreements before clicking OK.

The irony is there are some terms of service agreements where if you don't click OK, your session ends without giving you access to the product or service. So you're just acknowledging they shared the legalese, it's not as if you're really being given a choice...

And I am sure they make sure the length and language is obtuse enough so no one, not even another lawyer, would read it all.

 

[troutnut1]

A lot of people don't know that when going for a procedure at a teaching hospital, they may be practiced on by various students while unconscious. Without giving consent for that specific practice.

The practice can be for things totally unrelated to the operation/procedure and includes anal exams, pelvic exams, etc... things that some/most folks would not agree to have done by 4 or 5 random strangers for practice.

If it weren't for possibly being in the small print, it would be considered assault if it happened without consent anywhere else.

As an EMT myself I once had a surgery that was divided into two parts. In the first part they inserted a guide rod into my kidney. In the second part they were to remove kidney stones. I woke up in between the two procedures with two strangers in the room and asked who they were. They told me they were med students there to practice intubation on me while I was out. I told them NO! They asked me how they could get practice if nobody allowed them to do that. I told them to practice on each other. When I later complained to my surgeon he claimed to not know anything about it. This in a large Spokane, WA hospital in 2004.

 

[rk911]

If you have an Apple device you will soon be asked to agree to "updated" iCloud and Apple Media terms and conditions. Curl up in a comfy chair and set aside several hours.

 

[m3bs]

I can’t even read the owners manual for my car without tripping over all of the stuff the lawyers made them put in there. Do I really need to be told not to drink the battery acid?

The Apple TOS is about the worst. It usually pops up to be read when you are in a hurry to do something and get blocked until they are accepted.

 

[Markola]

Of course I don’t read that stuff.

 

[jim584672]

Only if it involves real money like brokerage accounts, not for things like apps on a phone for fast food.

 

[sengsational]

If I posted my detailed medical records on the Internet and on a billboard, nobody would read those. Nobody cares. Maybe if you are a celebrity with mental problems, someone would care, but I'll wager if you're spending time here, nobody would read your medical records either (they'd probably read a few words, then say "ah, never mind"... exactly what they say when encountering the legal agreement). The whole HIPPA thing is nuts, IMO.


But there are at least two distinct categories. The OP was medical info, the other is business/financial agreements. It annoys me when the two are mixed together in the medical industry, but I don't try to fight it anymore...if billing goes bonkers, I simply don't pay. I don't care what "I agreed to". My state insurance commissioners office has been helpful, and whatever I "agreed to" turned out to be flexible.


The final (non medical) agreements, nope, don't read. I do business with an entity if they don't have a slimy reputation. If an entity is strangling customers with fine print, then their reputation will suffer, and they won't have my business. Of course I could be the first person who hits the "gotcha" in the contract, and I treat that as an opportunity to alert the world of the slime tactics employed.

 

[FindingForward]

This was in my news feed this morning. Summary: When you download the McDonald's app you have to agree to terms and conditions that include arbitration of any lawsuits. Not that I have plans to sue McDonald's but they sure are covering their posteriors. In general I download few apps- only the ones I find useful on a regular basis.

Mickey D's lawyers are litigation-spooked:

1. Customer spilled hot coffee on themselves in drive-thru - they sued for millions.

2. Customer's kid dropped a mcnugget on their leg, burning their skin. Sued for millions.

 

[Sunset]

That is not true. I went through medical school, residency, then later taught students and residents. If that were to occur, it would be assault.

This is completely false. Why do people spread such terrible rumors that terrify people going into the operating room for the first time? This unethical behavior is assault.

Guess that was not in MASSACHUSETTS

https://malegislature.gov/Bills/193/H2146

If it's not true, then why does the Ma legislature have a bill to stop it.

Frankly, it is very disturbing, and I wish it was not true.

 

[Sunset]

As an EMT myself I once had a surgery that was divided into two parts. In the first part they inserted a guide rod into my kidney. In the second part they were to remove kidney stones. I woke up in between the two procedures with two strangers in the room and asked who they were. They told me they were med students there to practice intubation on me while I was out. I told them NO! They asked me how they could get practice if nobody allowed them to do that. I told them to practice on each other. When I later complained to my surgeon he claimed to not know anything about it. This in a large Spokane, WA hospital in 2004.

Scary !!

I understand students need practice, but there are people who will volunteer to be practiced on for various things.

I would for some things, but not other things.

In University, I met a girl and we were talking medical stuff, she told me when in the hospital she was asked and volunteered to allow a medical student class perform pelvic exams on her (while awake, and the class was 12->15 students) . I forget the exact number of the class but it was a bunch.

What made her story funny was, after a number of students had done it, the next one to do, was someone she recognized. A fellow that had asked her out on a date and she had rejected as she felt he was too creepy !!

She still didn't date him afterwards.

 

[JoeWras]

My doc has students shadow him. One asked permission to draw blood on DW. It was a disaster. DW's whole arm became a bruise. I let the kids shadow, but don't let them touch me. Permission is always asked first.

With my colonoscopy, my GI doc invites high-achieving senior high school students to watch if they are at least 18 years old and desire to study medicine. Of course, the patient has to grant permission. I gave permission. Told the kid as the propofol was hitting me that "if he can handle this kind of disgust, you'll be able to handle anything when you become a d...c.."