Do you have SMART goals & are they shared with others?

[panacea]

Honestly, my earlier post probably didn't give much insight into my feelings on this issue. My first job out of college was in sales and I was first introduced to goal setting strategies and encouraged to read all the sales books, all of which had a goal setting component. I actually found it helpful and interesting- this is all good stuff for a person who's primary goals have been to simply prepare for exams and get through college with a good grade point. I didn't even have specific goals laid out to have a good job after graduation. Not very good planning.

After a few years, I realized that sales was not for me; it was something I was able to do until I found something better. I spent most of my career after that in various areas of banking where they loved to talk about goals but there was little action. I, along with most all my colleagues, quickly got burned out on all the nonsense. The meetings were just taking time away from our real and productive work. Our new goal at these meetings was to attend their stupid meetings with a sense of humor, talk about how excited you were to use their newest strategy called (insert ACRONYM here) and your plans for achieving the company's goals, knowing that you wouldn't be implementing any of their crap because all would be forgotten and there would be no follow-up anyway. Before the end of the process, there would be a change of plans or some other distraction, a different training director would be hired or the bank was being acquired by a bigger bank with a different sales approach with an even better acronym. Blah, blah, blah. This is literally what entered my head going to these meetings after a while.

Anyway, fast forward to now. I work in a smaller accounting, tax and financial services firm with about 40 employees. The area that I work in isn't into meetings much and we're all very self-directed. We know what needs to get done and how to do it. Our team is accountable to ourselves and to the members of our team. We don't want to be a drag on the team or be seen as not pulling our own weight. Just get your work done and provide your clients with excellent service. Give them the same treatment (or better) that you would your own family (the ones you like). If you do this, they'll stay and they'll refer their friends and family and if you don't they'll leave.

With the work goals pretty much on auto-pilot, my current goals tend to be more focused on my personal life. This puts me in the same boat with many others here in this community I guess. I have goals of maintaining my weight and good health, spending enough time with family, and getting the work done around the house quickly so I can enjoy the rest of my time. Financially, I have goals to accumulate enough money in the next 9 years so I can FIRE, or cut back, or work if I want to and not because I have to.

 

[redduck]

I'm a huge fan of using goals to shape my future and drive daily activities towards short, medium & long term goals of import...

One thing that has worked extremely well has been sharing those goals with a close friend and reviewing them often. We discuss goals on a weekly basis and do a big review at the end of the year to gauge progress...

The model that works best is SMART - many of you are familiar I'm sure.

I'm curious how many other folks here follow a similar strategy, formal or otherwise?..

I had never heard of "SMART". That being said, your original post (see above) seemed to be reasonable enough.

...though I'm shocked at the level of negativity from others. Seems rather toxic.

It was rather toxic (and, right here in our own backyard). I'm glad you hung in there long enough for the group to finally come around.

I guess Nietzsche was on to something after all:

"Insanity in individuals is something rare-but in groups (including internet groups), parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule"-Friederich Nietzsche (via haha).

 

[growing_older]

The meetings were just taking time away from our real and productive work. ... stupid meetings... talk about how excited you were to use their newest strategy called (insert ACRONYM here) and your plans for achieving the company's goals, knowing that you wouldn't be implementing any of their crap because all would be forgotten and there would be no follow-up anyway. Before the end of the process, there would be a change of plans or some other distraction

This is a good description of where I have encountered SMART goals before, and it ALWAYS went like that. Naturally, I am left with a very negative feeling about SMART goals and have no desire to have anything to do with them in my personal life. Goals are good. But the corporate whitewash to make them "SMART" was worse than useless. If it works for some people, more power to them, they are welcome to them. It didn't seem to work for me or any of my colleagues.

 

[brewer12345]

I had never heard of "SMART". That being said, your original post (see above) seemed to be reasonable enough.



It was rather toxic (and, right here in our own backyard). I'm glad you hung in there long enough for the group to finally come around.

I guess Nietzsche was on to something after all:

"Insanity in individuals is something rare-but in groups (including internet groups), parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule"-Friederich Nietzsche (via haha).

I thought just the original post was spectacularly passive-aggressive, considering board membership.

As for me, I am now retired. Among other things, that means that when someone takes a dump on my head I no longer have to thank them for the hat.

 

[rodi]

Rather than goals... as I transition into retirement... I have to-do lists.
Things I'd like to get done/accomplish.
Some are broken into smaller tasks.

For example - I want to get more fit and exercise more. My to-do list includes to items that will help with that: "walk the dog on the beach at least 3 days a week." and "use the elliptical at least 3 days a week."
Another example - I want to declutter the house. My to do list has "muck out the guest room junk". (and I'll move - room by room until the house is decluttered.)

To do lists - in other words a plan broken into small enough pieces to be able to check them off - works better for me than the SMART goals of the corporate world.

I remember a VP having a goal (that had to be passed down to everyone under him) that was 'dazzle the customers'. Um... ok... I guess I needed to sparkle more when I was sitting in the development lab trying to solve a technical issue - sparkle so much the customer could see me "dazzling" even though I rarely had direct contact with them.

 

[growing_older]

I thought just the original post was spectacularly passive-aggressive, considering board membership.

I suspect that the original poster is a fan of using goals and had no idea that the SMART acronym was so disliked by many people. I was a little surprised myself at my own visceral intense dislike of the concept dredged up by the idea I might deliberately subject myself to such corporate nonsense in my personal life. And I really like goals and personal goal setting. Just loathe SMART. Apparently many agree with me.

It seems to me that original post was innocently launched by someone who has had good experiences with SMART, or who was unaware of what a clusterf it usually is when implemented in most work environments.

 

[ER Fireball]

I wish I had printed off my last 4 years of "Performance Management" reviews. (That was the period of time where I had decided that several things were in play:

First- I was entering that protected status condition of being old enough to make claims of age discrimination really painful for them, if the company should decide to do something like show me the door. This was in part based on their actions in one well known case of how they fired a person who was a true non-performer. If they had offered the general population the severance terms that they gave him when they 'fired' him, they would have had a line at the HR office.

Second- I had great bosses at the time. They knew what was going on, but they were in a position in the political/management system that required them to salute and parrot the company propaganda. This made for some interesting discussions when they would talk about the latest initiatives, and I would ask if the company planned to fix some of the structural problems that would prevent us from achieving those goals (person to person, never in a public sitauation that would make them look bad).

Third- I had no ambition towards a promotion or advancement. If something happened, fine. But as I explained to them, the reality is that if I recieved 0 raises, it really doesn't impact the financials. I could just stick around another 6 months and make more money than if they dangled a couple extra percent in front of me. If they came up with an unrealistically fantastic raise, it really didn't change anything. I was on a glide path, financially, to leave on my schedule.

So when they asked for goals, I put them in there. "My goal is to obtain a job in a different department within the next fiscal year." "My goal is to improve the diversity of this group by leaving it, just affecting the number of middle aged white guys in the department." "My goal is to embrace diversity by being more tolerant of critical mistakes and errors made by our international outsourcing efforts, as they do not have the experience and skills that we are typically working with."

I think they did get the last laugh. When I retired, I had enough accumulated vacation that I could have my last day in the office, and then burn up vacation for a number of months before my actual retirement date. Several months after I had worked my last day in the office, but several months before my actual retirement date, I received notice that I had been awarded a really nice raise. I responded back that that was perhaps one of the most disgusting thing I could think of the company doing. They could have given some more raise to one of the young folks, and it would have meant something to them. Instead, they gave it to me, which meant they paid me a few more dollars for a couple months and then it left the budget. (Raises were a zero sum game, a certain amount was available to the entire department. Person A gets more, somebody else gets less.)

My actual retirement date was a week before the yearly performance management reports were due. HR called me to ask why I had not submitted my goals yet! I told her that if I did not get them submitted before the deadline, she could personally come find me and escort me to the door. She is still probably looking for me!

Corporate BS. Filed under the category of 'Not missed around here!"

 

[Gumby]

Goals, hmmmm. I guess I simply see what is needed and then just do it until it is done. I never had a fancy acronym.

I do sometimes write things down so I won't forget. Like this morning's list - go the bank, go to the post office, go to the cleaners, get propane for the grill, get gasoline for the lawn mower.

 

[audreyh1]

Gaaaaaaakkkkkk!!!

Sounds way too much like the crap I put up with at work. I'm retired.

Other than that, I have no opinion...

+1

I don't deal with reviews evaluating my performance anymore, thank god!

 

[audreyh1]

Glad you like the discussion, though I'm shocked at the level of negativity from others. Seems rather toxic.

Let's ignore the company, management & other negativity that seem to turn people off.

You tell your best friend that you are going to run 10 miles on Wednesday, at an 8:00 pace. Now you are accountable. On sunday night when your friend says, hey, I thought this was important to you - what the hell happened? Accountability is extremely powerful.

Now if your friends are fat, lazy & drunk this might not be a good example...

I think what may appear toxic to you is instead the fallout of a rather severe culture clash.

Many folks here are self-directed and can't imagine being accountable to anyone but themselves or their immediate family.

Now that we are are retired and no longer saving, like others our financial goal is simply not to run out of money before we run out of years. There isn't a whole lot we can do to achieve X dollars by Y date. That was back when we were working and saving.

Having mostly completed a fairly complex travel itinerary that required a lot of research and logistical planning, I seem to be doing pretty well with my gut level instinctive "system" for goal achievement. Oh yeah, and the home improvements - why don't we do X and put off Y - seems to be working well enough too.

Ultimately, it's the desired results that count. Aka - just do it.

 

[springnr]

Megacorp inane goals are a great cure for OMY syndrome.

 

[Lsbcal]

So to clarify my username, which I might have to change to "retired at 39" or something is that I was an enterprise account manager for 15 years for F1000 customers in high end IT. It was a soul-sucking job that paid well and was one part of a multifaceted approach to FIRE.

We achieved FIRE at 39 (wife is 35) not through one big hit (stock options or whatever) and not relying on a pension but by doing the right things every single day with singular focus over the last 18 years. Keeping expenses tight, investing in different asset classes, saving our asses off and associating with high net worth, high achievers. A huge part of that is having goals that people I care about hold me to account.

My guess is you have not had enough time in ER to find yourself. I keep asking myself what I *really* want in life. Life's going by and I want to get the most out of it. Not sure I've found myself yet either but I'm trying.

But still this finding out what you *really* want in life is a tough goal. It is the thing that I would think many in FIRE still might want. I think for me it might be getting as much insight into human interactions and certain specialized interest areas is most important. That implies a depth to the developing interests.

Examples for me:
1) Regarding financial: really understanding past market behaviors and modeling my methods. Daring to be different maybe (big question on this point). Goal is to just keep my FIRE lifestyle.
2) Reading what others have said about human interactions, maybe in fictional form. Could express this in novels read per month.
3) Trying to develop new friendships ... not easy for a guy like me.
4) Keeping healthy: improving diet, exercise maintenance, etc. In corporate speak -- continual process improvement.
5) Getting good at something I was never paid to do and will never try to cash in on. For me this is art and right now it is watercolor sketching though have done lots of oils too.

Also that red stuff above. Why would you seek out people that hold you to account? That sounds like a corporate world like behavior where everyone wants a stunning resume. Wouldn't it be better to emphasize people who like you just the way you are? Just being a bit provocative here but something to think about maybe.

 

[Katsmeow]

I actually do think about the SMART acronym in setting some goals (no, I never used it when I was working so it has no bad connotation to me).

In my case, the one area where I do set formal written goals is in the area of weight loss, particularly in setting short term goals. At the end of 2013, I set up a blog primarily dealing with weight loss/fitness. One of the first things that I did was to set written, public goals for the entire year. And, since then the first thing I do at the start of each month and discuss how I did on the past month's goals and then set new goal for the new month.

I've found that writing down my goals and making sure that they are measurable and attainable, for example, does help me. While it might be interesting to set a goal to lose 20 pounds in a month, it is one I would never set because it is not attainable. So, I spend quite a bit of time each month thinking about setting a goal that makes incremental progress to my overall goal (to be at a normal BMI by the end of this year), and is one that may be a stretch to meet during the month, but is one that I can reasonably attain.

As it turns out I've had to modify my goals over the course of this year, due to a trabecular bone injury to my leg. Many of my short term goals were exercise related and being told to use a walker on a non-weight bearing basis had a major impact on meeting my goals. Likewise I had goals for the entire year based upon number of average steps per day. Now that I've been told not to walk for fitness, those goals have to be changed.

The reason why I do specific goals on a monthly basis is that a goal like be at a normal BMI by the end of the year is one that I see as fine for my overall end goal. But, the attainable part is one that can be difficult. That is, I can't directly order up a weight loss of X pounds. What I find more helpful is to specify short term goals that -- if met -- will end up helping me to achieve my overall weight loss. For example, I don't set goals for each month to lose X pounds. I don't feel that is something I can directly control. My control of that is more indirect. What I do set are short term goals such as:

1. Have a calorie deficit each day of at least y00 calories as shown by my Fitbit.

2. Walk an average of 6500 steps a day (I don't do this one anymore but something like this was a goal of mine, with the number of steps increasing each month)

3. Have at least 3 vegetables or fruit each day. (I'm trying eat more vegetables and fruits and I'm working my way up to having at least 5 serving a day).

4. Keep my blog up and go to Weight Watchers meetings.

5. When sitting at my computer, get up and move for at least a couple of minutes every hour.

6. Sleep an average of 7 hours 15 minutes a day according to Fitbit.

Those were my written goals in April. I found that if I did those things, then the weight loss would take care of itself. And, I knew those things were directly under my control (well, right up to the time of having my knee MRI and being told about the trabecular bone injury and having to use a walker for over a month).

So, yes, I do believe in doing written goals for certain things. I don't have one person that I share them with. But, I do put them on the internet and I get comments from my readers and I make myself accountable by posting each month about how I did.

 

[Calico]

Just received the annual performance review forms. The SMART goals are baaaaaacck. (aaarrrgh)

They had disappeared for several years, but have now reared their ugly heads again. (sigh)

Only a few more years of this foolishness and I will be free.

 

[easysurfer]

Used to have more goals when I was still w*rking.

While retired, never underestimate the joy of just putzing around

 

[H2ODude]

I guess keeping fit and healthy is a "goal"; the other one I'm working on is to ramp up spending. Up to 3% wr now. On small island off Tanzania two days ago and in London now. Expecting a good performance review this year!

No offense to OP but I truly believe all the flavor of the day performance management systems were nonsense. Ran a major water utility and budget dept set a goal for us to reduce chemical cost per million gallons produced. Yeah right, ya want your water cloudy, smelly, or with a side order of bacteria? In the end we did what we professionally thought was best for customers and told them to F off. Fact is, we were always optimizing far more parameters than you could explain to a non water operator or engineer. So no, no fan of people who are not of the business setting goals. Always believed in having good employees and trusting them to do the right thing, getting rid of them if they failed. What a novel idea; I could patent it, go on the road, and have a good cutesy acronym!

 

[Calico]

No offense to OP but I truly believe all the flavor of the day performance management systems were nonsense.......Always believed in having good employees and trusting them to do the right thing, getting rid of them if they failed. What a novel idea; I could patent it, go on the road, and have a good cutesy acronym!

BINGO! That sums it up perfectly.

On the performance review forms I am supposed to fill in my short-term and long-term "SMART" goals and a bunch of other nonsense.

What I would like to write:

1. Short-term goal: do my job and do it well.
2. Long-term goal: continue doing my job well and advance the objectives of the department in every way I can.

Those two goals seem pretty darn "smart" to me any way you look at it!

What I will write:

1. Blah blah blah (buzzword) blah blah blah (buzzword).
2. See #1.

Call me crazy, but all I want is management that thinks like you: the good employees keep their jobs and the others are tossed. Never going to happen where I work. The ones who buy into all the management buzzword cr@pola keep their j*bs. So buzzwords, here I come.

 

[GalaxyBoy]

Seriously, does anyone have a SMART goal that is meaningless but something able to be swallowed by the PHB? It's that time of year again and I'm fighting the urge to write something like, "go another year without getting so fed up I quit, or get fired." After all, it's measurable, achievable, a stretch...

Oh, the last time I did a web search on these things I came up with the following article, which I think many of you may enjoy:

"Bullshit" Is One Word, "Performance Review" Two

 

[growing_older]

We were almost always able to subvert the system by inserting "progress toward" type goals. or using very specific language about accomplish X by Y date, for items that had already been done. Invariably the goal setting was done well after the start of the period for which it applied and we successfully argued that they were "Yearly" goals, so it was fair to include the first part of the year too. Goals for the later part of the year were sometimes so vague they resembled "player to be named later" such as "implement first phase of next gen system per product dept request" We actually had this exact wording one year, then were able to submit all the hours worked, documents written and code checked in as "proof" that we had worked on the first phase of whatever it was that they asked for, even though they changed their mind repeatedly and no one would have been able to describe the system or what it was supposed to do, because it kept changing.