Done with Bogleheads ... it's a cult

[pb4uski]

I like the Bogleheads forum, at least the way it was when I was last there. I got some good, solid advice over there regarding my portfolio when Bogleheads was new and I was a novice investor.

My portfolio has been all set up for a very long time by now, and I don't really go back there often any more. Maybe I should - - maybe they have changed? Surely not? But anyway, I have no venom to add to this thread because I am grateful that they helped me out when I needed it. I regard myself and my investing approach as 3/4 Boglehead.

That said, at this point in my life, I am more interested in the casual camaraderie and lighter topics that we all enjoy here on the ER Forum.

Thanks for bringing Eve back... she is so hot!

 

[MichaelB]

So we can give them face punches if we want!

Let’s not. Live and let live, eh?

I like the Bogleheads forum, at least the way it was when I was last there. I got some good, solid advice over there regarding my portfolio when Bogleheads was new and I was a novice investor.

My portfolio has been all set up for a very long time by now, and I don't really go back there often any more. Maybe I should - - maybe they have changed? Surely not? But anyway, I have no venom to add to this thread because I am grateful that they helped me out when I needed it. I regard myself and my investing approach as 3/4 Boglehead.

That said, at this point in my life, I am more interested in the casual camaraderie and lighter topics that we all enjoy here on the ER Forum.

Nicely said, and a perspective I share.

 

[razztazz]

I asked to have my account removed a few years ago. I was berated for buying individual bonds. That was too risky.

I don't see how people with 5-10+ million dollar 401k's can even know what real risk is. Unless they are pretty dissolute in their habits.

 

[COcheesehead]

Did you mention you can sell bonds at face value at maturity, whereas the bond fund continues to be priced according present interest rates.

Well you don’t really “sell” bonds at face value at maturity, they just mature and you receive the par value, no sale required, but I never got that far. The idea of owning something not tied to an index was completely outside their realm of understanding and they gave me lots of grief over it.
If I went into NAV erosion of bond funds, their inefficiencies, lack of no par value, etc, their minds would have been blown.

 

[youbet]

I knew about indexing, Vanguard, and Bogle long before I heard of the BH forum.

I learned about those things from Bob Brinker, both his radio show and his newsletter, decades ago.

 

[friar1610]

I visit BH fairly regularly although I frankly read fewer and fewer of the threads these days, probably because I’m unlikely to make any significant changes to the way I handle my portfolio. I do find some of the threads (such as one today comparing and contrasting TIPS with nominal Treasurys and Total Bond Fund) to be very interesting. Some of the comments upthread strike me as overly harsh, but I realize opinions differ, so that’s fine. But there are a few posters I avoid (and others I always read). I do like the balance of this forum and Bogleheads and glad I can read both.

 

[W2R]

Thanks for bringing Eve back... she is so hot!

I think she's so beautiful! If only... if only.... Ah, one can dream....

Nicely said, and a perspective I share.

Thanks!

 

[HawkOwl]

I like the Bogleheads forum, at least the way it was when I was last there. I got some good, solid advice over there regarding my portfolio when Bogleheads was new and I was a novice investor.

My portfolio has been all set up for a very long time by now, and I don't really go back there often any more. Maybe I should - - maybe they have changed? Surely not? But anyway, I have no venom to add to this thread because I am grateful that they helped me out when I needed it. I regard myself and my investing approach as 3/4 Boglehead.

That said, at this point in my life, I am more interested in the casual camaraderie and lighter topics that we all enjoy here on the ER Forum.

Bogleheads is a lot drier than ER, and they are quick to lock any post that is remotely political in nature. Or one that involves crypto. Come to think of it, I rather like those last two rules. ?

I have learned a lot from both Bogleheads, and from Mr. Bogle’s writings. I continue to read posts there regularly, and find many of the core posters and administrators to be both logical in their thinking and helpful to anyone who asks.

But I completely agree with you about being at a point in my life where I prefer the “casual camaraderie “ on ER. Basic Bogle concepts, while imo illuminating, are in no way rocket science. Once you are familiar with them, there isn’t that much to talk about.

Thank you for your post.

 

[Freedom56]

I would add they also don't understand the difference between bond funds and stock funds. They talk about buying "bonds on sale" when their bond funds take a dive. While that concept works for stocks, it make no sense whatsoever with a bond fund. You have done a very good job of pointing out that out succinctly in your recent posts on the yields and NAV risks with bond funds compared to the yields on CDs and Treasuries with no default or principal risk.

What the Bozoheads fail to understand is bonds have a finite duration (unless they are perpetual) and they mature at par. When those funds bid up those rare long duration high coupon AAA bonds up to $166 or higher, there is only downside as the bond approaches maturity. Convertible bonds are an exception but those funds rarely buy them and most convertible bonds end up favoring the issuer not the investor. So when they declare a "bonds on sale" event, they fail to realize that the individual bond investors are the real winners given that that the bond fund sells the bond/note at a loss to an individual bond investor and then when the Bozoheads pile into bond funds again and the funds bid up the same bonds/notes handing the individual bond/note investor a quick gain. This is so predictable and made possible by passive bond fund investors. So let the Bozoheads flourish and multiply.

Also, the vast majority of financial advisors don't understand the difference between bonds and bond funds and declare that individual bonds are too risky. Okay they are too risky, so let your funds sell them to me at a loss and let your funds buy them back at higher prices. I'm okay with that level or risk.

 

[CardsFan]

I think she's so beautiful! If only... if only.... Ah, one can dream....

I recall you posting a picture a while back, of your younger days.

You were very beautiful yourself. No "if only"'s required.

 

[W2R]

Bogleheads is a lot drier than ER, and they are quick to lock any post that is remotely political in nature. Or one that involves crypto. Come to think of it, I rather like those last two rules. ��

To me, politics these days is just flamebait. And from my point of view, crypto isn't investing, it's crypto. It's different, although I am not judgmental about it. There are many paths to making or losing a great deal of money that are different from investing, and IMO crypto is one of them. So, like you I like those two rules. It's hard for me to imagine why anybody would go to Bogleheads, of all places, to discuss those topics.

I have learned a lot from both Bogleheads, and from Mr. Bogle’s writings. I continue to read posts there regularly, and find many of the core posters and administrators to be both logical in their thinking and helpful to anyone who asks.

Yes, that was my experience as well, and thank goodness for that.

But I completely agree with you about being at a point in my life where I prefer the “casual camaraderie “ on ER. Basic Bogle concepts, while imo illuminating, are in no way rocket science. Once you are familiar with them, there isn’t that much to talk about.

Exactly! The basic ideas are clear and straightforward, so there's nothing to talk about. Either you like their approach (which I do), or you don't.

Thank you for your post.

And thank you, too!

 

[W2R]

I recall you posting a picture a while back, of your younger days.

You were very beautiful yourself. No "if only"'s required.

Aw, thank you! That's such a sweet thing to say. I never was another Eva Habermann, but I did like the way I looked in my youth.

 

[TheWizard]

I also no longer post at the BH forum.
I went to a few of their October conventions and met many folks in person.
I would not describe BH as a cult, but simply as an unreasonably moderated forum.

I'm pretty sure one could post there about individual bonds without the post/thread being removed or the poster getting a warning, so long as no ad hominem attacks.

My reason for leaving is related to their unreasonable policy forbidding certain non political topics which may still be a factor in someone's decision process.
Sorry if that's vague...

 

[HawkOwl]

Aw, thank you! That's such a sweet thing to say. I never was another Eva Habermann, but I did like the way I looked in my youth.

Eva Habermann! From Lexx! I knew that face was familiar!

 

[djsander]

What does your IPS say?

I roll my eyes when I see that one now. I have more to say about the BH site, but I think everybody has their opinions. I like this one as it has a lot more useable information and seems to have a wider audience which makes sense. BH has a narrower focus as they are geared to those that worship Jack.

 

[TheWizard]

I roll my eyes when I see that one now. I have more to say about the BH site, but I think everybody has their opinions. I like this one as it has a lot more useable information and seems to have a wider audience which makes sense. BH has a narrower focus as they are geared to those that worship Jack.

"Worship Jack" is a bit over the top.
For instance, Bogle didn't feel that foreign stock funds were needed for portfolio diversification.
He also wasn't a big fan of ETFs, at least initially, because he thought folks would be day-trading them.

The eight or ten BH principles of successful investing (low-cost index funds, stay the course, etc) are all reasonably good.

And there's no genuflecting required...

 

[street]

I never felt welcome there and never felt like home.

 

[harllee]

I like BH and have learned a lot from that Forum. They do have strict rules about posting (especially no politics) but I am glad they do.

 

[JoeWras]

I visit there when things go off the rails here. It isn't all sunshine here either.

And frankly, I find this piling on of another forum cult like in its own small way.

 

[Scrapr]

Proud to say I got a timeout there a couple years ago. I messaged the Mod & said so long & thanks for all the fish

Never been back

 

[REWahoo]

And frankly, I find this piling on of another forum cult like in its own small way.

Relax. Have some Kool-Aid.

 

[djsander]

"Worship Jack" is a bit over the top.
For instance, Bogle didn't feel that foreign stock funds were needed for portfolio diversification.
He also wasn't a big fan of ETFs, at least initially, because he thought folks would be day-trading them.

The eight or ten BH principles of successful investing (low-cost index funds, stay the course, etc) are all reasonably good.

And there's no genuflecting required...

Yeah, probably over the top, but there appears to be a lot of folks at BH that tend to be strict adherence to his philosophies and not tolerant to other ideas. Yes, some of his investing philosophies are really good. A lot of the comments on this thread have alluded to the extremism of BH.

 

[Lsbcal]

I've been posting at BH since 2007. Some smart people there and some good points made. Also some beginners and some financial religious types. Overall they are not investing like I do. But I can extract occasional good points occasionally.

When BH first started it was more reasonable and even seemed to attract some professionals ... well they call themselves that because they have clients and maybe even wrote a book. One professional loved to get into arguments and would sometimes ignore my occasional good questions because he could not resist trying to win an argument with the other guy. He would leave the forum and come back and then leave and come back. Currently he is gone I think.

There were a few other decent professionals and one that I feel I learned a few worthwhile nuggets from.

There was a post by a frequent poster about his reasonably researched market timing methods which was very interesting to me. But he kept getting hounded by the financial religious types. Eventually he just gave up that thread. Too bad but I learned a thing or two there.

So I would say BH is worthwhile to extract some info as long as you don't take it too seriously. Just realize there are some severe limits to the dialog possibilities.

I am so glad this forum set up the topic Active Investing, Market Strategies & Alternative Assets . There are some semi-religious types on this forum too and it's nice not to be shut down by them when posting there.

 

[Dtail]

I used to go there when first retired. Learned a few things, but never posted there.
Not much new stuff to still learn there, so rarely frequent the site anymore.

 

[Montecfo]

Such an insular self-righteous crowd over there. I do tire of people who recoil in horror at the idea of buying individual stocks. Go learn about risk, please.

That is religion-like for sure. But any place that cannot tolerate different views is not very interesting or smart as I see it.

Full disclosure: have read BH here and there, never posted or wanted to.