Done with Bogleheads ... it's a cult

[big-papa]

I understand your frustration.

Personally I've learned a lot from those guys and gals overthere but I also think this forum is excellent too. Honestly, I follow just a few users at BH: Nisiprius, Livesoft, Willthrill81 and retired jg. I think they're great and informative.

Best,

Among my faves as well, but I'll also add vineviz to that list. He sometimes disappears for a few months at a time but always comes back..

Cheers

 

[imnontrad]

I was done with them when I got one ticket for the annual Bogleheads meeting. Then I started totaling up the cost of transportation plus hotel, food, etc, and realized that it did not make sense to go. But even though there was a waiting list, I could not get a refund - and I was not allowed to sell my ticket to anyone waiting to go either (uhhh, what was the waiting list for)? It seems their plan was for people to give up their ticket without reimbursement and then resell that ticket to someone on the waiting list.
To me, that is just a really poor busines practice.

 

[RobbieB]

For you yes. For them no.

 

[Koolau]

I was done with them when I got one ticket for the annual Bogleheads meeting. Then I started totaling up the cost of transportation plus hotel, food, etc, and realized that it did not make sense to go. But even though there was a waiting list, I could not get a refund - and I was not allowed to sell my ticket to anyone waiting to go either (uhhh, what was the waiting list for)? It seems their plan was for people to give up their ticket without reimbursement and then resell that ticket to someone on the waiting list.
To me, that is just a really poor busines practice.

Jack must be turning over in his grave!

 

[Graybeard]

I was done with them when I got one ticket for the annual Bogleheads meeting. Then I started totaling up the cost of transportation plus hotel, food, etc, and realized that it did not make sense to go. But even though there was a waiting list, I could not get a refund - and I was not allowed to sell my ticket to anyone waiting to go either (uhhh, what was the waiting list for)? It seems their plan was for people to give up their ticket without reimbursement and then resell that ticket to someone on the waiting list.
To me, that is just a really poor busines practice.

Wow, that is just crazy. Why not give you the refund and just sell it to someone else? There is a difference between being frugal, cheap and a crook.

 

[FindingForward]

I haven't found things so bad over there. I hadn't noticed anyone being told not to invest in individual bonds but maybe I just haven't noticed since I use bond funds. Certainly there is a strong belief in investing in only the total index funds, but since that's what the board was founded on one shouldn't be surprised. It more or less matches my strategy so I'm more tolerant. There's a lot of knowledge there.

Sound like the OP ran into some overzealous moderation or group think. I don't blame them for leaving and speaking out about it. Cult? I don't know, I don't really like labels like that especially when there is a lot of gray area. If it isn't for you, skip it, but I wouldn't avoid it because of this thread. Make your own decision.

So well said. To me, one of the biggest societal problems is too many closed minds on both sides of any issue. Refusing to even check out a forum - just to judge for yourself - is as limited as those people on that forum pushing their agenda too aggressively to the exclusion of listening to others. There are many who don't do that on BH. And there are some that do that here as well.

 

[RunningBum]

Personally I've learned a lot from those guys and gals overthere but I also think this forum is excellent too. Honestly, I follow just a few users at BH: Nisiprius, Livesoft, Willthrill81 and retired jg. I think they're great and informative.

Willthrill just said he is leaving Bogleheads.

 

[corn18]

Willthrill just said he is leaving Bogleheads.

Here's what he said:

"I've grown weary of trying to comply with the forum's rules and their enforcement only to see my efforts stifled time and again. Between this and the fact that the forum's rules forbid discussion of numerous pertinent topics to investing, I've decided to leave the forum as it is no longer a productive use of my time. Farewell."

 

[jldavid47]

I asked to have my account removed a few years ago. I was berated for buying individual bonds. That was too risky.

That's amusing because buying bond funds can be far more risky than buying individual bonds.

 

[RobbieB]

Not if they are Vanguard funds, which are the only funds you can buy.

Well not really, just the only ones that may be discussed.

Garbage.

 

[USGrant1962]

Here's what he said:

"I've grown weary of trying to comply with the forum's rules and their enforcement only to see my efforts stifled time and again. Between this and the fact that the forum's rules forbid discussion of numerous pertinent topics to investing, I've decided to leave the forum as it is no longer a productive use of my time. Farewell."

Wow, that sucks. Willthrill81 is (was) one of the more grounded posters on BH. If he's done, yea BH has issues.

EDIT - oh, and Willthrill81's "resignation" thread is apparently firewalled and only visible to registered members. That's weird too. I can see it in search, but to see the thread BH wants a login.

 

[RobbieB]

Of course. It's a Vanguard cheerleading club.

 

[googily]

The shutting down of the Stocks Continue to Soar and the companion one that I can't remember the name of for when the market was down just struck me as ridiculous. They were about the only threads with any personality, and it seemed like the mods painted themselves into a corner by trying to ferret out any discussions of "monetary policy." So they just locked them. Weak.

I got put in a timeout early on when I made a side reference to having enough money for "hookers and blow." Was told it's a family friendly site.

That's too bad about willthrill.

 

[kgtest]

ER is waaay better than BH and I hope it stays that way.

 

[scrabbler1]

My only encounter with unpleasant groupthink in Bogleheads was in a thread many years ago about how we like our steaks cooked. The crowd answered "rare": or maybe "medium-rare" but I answered "well-done" and got, er, "cooked" for my choice. It got so bad I had to report the very disrespectful attacks I received to the moderators who quickly locked the thread. They might have deleted the thread, too, I forget.

 

[JoeWras]

The fact this thread persists says a lot about early-retirement.org itself, sadly.

 

[RunningBum]

Of course. It's a Vanguard cheerleading club.

I thought you'd never been to the BH site, but now you're telling us what it's like?

 

[corn18]

Of course. It's a Vanguard cheerleading club.

No it isn't. If anything, Vanguard is taking a beating lately with their difficult website and horrible customer service. I see a lot more Fidelity, Schwab and Interactive Brokers positive posts than Vanguard positive posts. As a matter of fact, I can't remember the last post I read that was positive on Vanguard.

 

[big-papa]

No it isn't. If anything, Vanguard is taking a beating lately with their difficult website and horrible customer service. I see a lot more Fidelity, Schwab and Interactive Brokers positive posts than Vanguard positive posts. As a matter of fact, I can't remember the last post I read that was positive on Vanguard.

Agree - pretty sure it started out as a Vanguard-mostly board because, well, there really weren't a large number of sources for index funds back in the day and when there were options, Vanguard was usually the cheapest. These days there are always threads about Vanguard vs Schwab vs Fidelity and the discussions usually come down on cost vs customer support vs portability of holdings.

Kind of surprised by some of the gross generalizations going on in this thread which seem to presume that there's only one way of thinking going on over on BH. It's no more true for BH than it is for ER.

Cheers

 

[corn18]

Agree - pretty sure it started out as a Vanguard-mostly board because, well, there really weren't a large number of sources for index funds back in the day and when there were options, Vanguard was usually the cheapest. These days there are always threads about Vanguard vs Schwab vs Fidelity and the discussions usually come down on cost vs customer support vs portability of holdings.

Kind of surprised by some of the gross generalizations going on in this thread which seem to presume that there's only one way of thinking going on over on BH. It's no more true for BH than it is for ER.

Cheers

One thing I love about this site is the separate forum for active/alternative investing. When it first came out, a lot of folks (Me included) chimed in with our index fund mantra, but now that we have all caught on, we let things run there. I like it. I get to read about what other folks are up to and how it's going. I may not invest that way, but I learn a lot. That would never be allowed on BH. Not because of rules but because they could never get past the berating from other forum members.

 

[VanWinkle]

Agree - pretty sure it started out as a Vanguard-mostly board because, well, there really weren't a large number of sources for index funds back in the day and when there were options, Vanguard was usually the cheapest. These days there are always threads about Vanguard vs Schwab vs Fidelity and the discussions usually come down on cost vs customer support vs portability of holdings.

Kind of surprised by some of the gross generalizations going on in this thread which seem to presume that there's only one way of thinking going on over on BH. It's no more true for BH than it is for ER.

Cheers

+1 big-papa

 

[big-papa]

One thing I love about this site is the separate forum for active/alternative investing. When it first came out, a lot of folks (Me included) chimed in with our index fund mantra, but now that we have all caught on, we let things run there. I like it. I get to read about what other folks are up to and how it's going. I may not invest that way, but I learn a lot. That would never be allowed on BH. Not because of rules but because they could never get past the berating from other forum members.

Agree - I like both of these forums, but it does take a thick skin to post any new ideas over on BH for sure. I'm actually surprised that Willthrill81 didn't leave a long time ago. A couple of years ago, he started a now-famous thread about his own adventures in market timing which went for many many pages and which aren't against any rules despite what people may presume about BH.

He made the mistake of being too transparent and did something that was outside of the mechanical framework he had set up and the BH antibodies came out in full force. It kept the moderators very busy dealing with some of the tones of those posts. Ultimately Willthrill81 asked that the thread be locked.

Speaking of which, his farewell post and all related posts to it have been completely removed from the thread (whether you're logged in or not). Usually when moderators do that, they leave behind a note either letting everybody know that they started a new thread or a note stating which rule violation occurred. So far, there isn't a note from any of the moderators about it.

Cheers
Big-Papa

 

[harllee]

Wow 10 pages on a thread about another Forum? The ER people must not have enough to do.

 

[TheWizard]

No it isn't. If anything, Vanguard is taking a beating lately with their difficult website and horrible customer service. I see a lot more Fidelity, Schwab and Interactive Brokers positive posts than Vanguard positive posts. As a matter of fact, I can't remember the last post I read that was positive on Vanguard.

Corn is correct. Vanguard is just one of a few decent fund families that Bogleheads use and recommend...

 

[TheWizard]

Willthrill's reasons for quitting are quite similar to mine, except I didn't do a resignation post...