It gets better. These are Estate Planning documents included in the service.
Estate Planning - Cost?
- Thread starter G-Man
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It gets better. These are Estate Planning documents included in the service.
gamboolman
Recycles dryer sheets
G-Man,
When I retired effective 1-Feb-21, ms gamboolgal and I met with our Attorney and reviewed / revised our documents. We also established a trust. See itemized list below of all documents.
Total Cost was $3K. We use one of the well established Law Firms that we have been with for years in The Woodlands.
This cost is about normal as over the years we have periodically reviewed/revised and added on as need be to the documents and legal instruments.
We also have had Vanguard and later upon retirement when when we swapped to Fidelity to review the appropriate documents and Insurance Coverages vs our Legal documents and our local Bank Accounts.
(Please note, we swapped to Fidelity because we are minutes away from their Brick and Mortar Office and we like to meet Face to Face from time to time as need be. And we meet with the same one or two Fidelity Reps that know us - that matters to us.
We were always pleased with VG but no Face to Face meetings.
List of Documents Reviewed/Revised in 1st Qtr 2021 - Cost was $3K
1. Assignment of Property
2. Certification of Trust
3. Declaration of Guardian – Myself
4. Declaration of Guardian – Spouse
5. Directive to Physicians – Myself
6. Directive to Physicians – Spouse
7. Durable POA - Myself
8. Durable POA – Spouse
9. Last Will & Testament – Myself
10. Last Will & Testament - Spouse
11. Medical POA - Myself
12. Medical POA - Spouse
13. Recorded Special Warranty Deed for Residence
14. Special Warranty Deed
15. Trust Agreement -
It's a chore but it is also a good "chore" to have to do....from time to time as need be.
gamboolman....
When I retired effective 1-Feb-21, ms gamboolgal and I met with our Attorney and reviewed / revised our documents. We also established a trust. See itemized list below of all documents.
Total Cost was $3K. We use one of the well established Law Firms that we have been with for years in The Woodlands.
This cost is about normal as over the years we have periodically reviewed/revised and added on as need be to the documents and legal instruments.
We also have had Vanguard and later upon retirement when when we swapped to Fidelity to review the appropriate documents and Insurance Coverages vs our Legal documents and our local Bank Accounts.
(Please note, we swapped to Fidelity because we are minutes away from their Brick and Mortar Office and we like to meet Face to Face from time to time as need be. And we meet with the same one or two Fidelity Reps that know us - that matters to us.
We were always pleased with VG but no Face to Face meetings.
List of Documents Reviewed/Revised in 1st Qtr 2021 - Cost was $3K
1. Assignment of Property
2. Certification of Trust
3. Declaration of Guardian – Myself
4. Declaration of Guardian – Spouse
5. Directive to Physicians – Myself
6. Directive to Physicians – Spouse
7. Durable POA - Myself
8. Durable POA – Spouse
9. Last Will & Testament – Myself
10. Last Will & Testament - Spouse
11. Medical POA - Myself
12. Medical POA - Spouse
13. Recorded Special Warranty Deed for Residence
14. Special Warranty Deed
15. Trust Agreement -
It's a chore but it is also a good "chore" to have to do....from time to time as need be.
gamboolman....
Ian S
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
IIRC, although the enrollment period starts in October, coverage may not begin until January 1 of next year. Make sure about that. The firm that we selected was an estate specialist and from what I could tell did a proper job. Their main office is in Scottsdale but they had a small satellite office near us in Sedona. Our estate planning was fairly simple as there were no children or previous marriages. Ultimately, the only thing that went into the trust was our paid-off home. Our non-IRA accounts were too little and IRA's aren't generally appropriate for a trust.
Thank you so much for the information.
Sunset
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It is State dependent, here in IL if the estate is worth less than $100K then probate is not required, saving over a year and $$$$. Instead the executor completes an affidavit of small estate. The Form is at the govt website.
https://ilsos.gov/publications/pdf_publications/rtopr31.pdf
Also in IL, for the last 10 years, a person can put a TOD on the house, no longer a need to use a Chicago Land Trust. Saves ~$100/yr.
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What accounts and assets are appropriate for including in a trust?
I know beneficiary designations and POD/TOD accounts will keep assets out of probate.
mathjak107
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Things that can be passed via beneficiaries is the simplest way to go l
Trusts can complicate things and have unintended consequences sometimes.
Trusts are good when what you leave heirs has special instructions or clauses .
Like you want to say my son only gets an inheritance if he is married .
Revocable trusts don’t have the advantages irrevocable trusts have but irrevocable trusts can really be a pain or hurtful to a spouse
Trusts can complicate things and have unintended consequences sometimes.
Trusts are good when what you leave heirs has special instructions or clauses .
Like you want to say my son only gets an inheritance if he is married .
Revocable trusts don’t have the advantages irrevocable trusts have but irrevocable trusts can really be a pain or hurtful to a spouse
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Any other examples on when a trust is better than a will?
When I called around about estate planning, most attorneys had a package deal that was will based or trust based.
The Cosmic Avenger
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
It looks like Texas and Louisiana are the only states left, according to Nolo: https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/avoid-probate-book/chapter3-2.html
When my DF passed, everything was POD/TOD or Joint - including the house.
I called my estate attorney and asked whether or not we should file probate for his household stuff and she said no - just split it up. Obviously, if you have a situation where there is a lot of valuable stuff and heirs that don't get along, then that might be a different story.
In our case, at least half of the stuff ended up in a dumpster.
pb4uski
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As a practical matter, if the only thing that would be probated are personal possessions then just split things up... that is unless one of the heirs is an a-hole and likely to raise a stink, in which case you might consider going through probate.
When DMIL died, DBIL who was executor had an extensive list of personal items and each of the 7 siblings was able to "bid" on each item. It all worked out pretty well and the process allowed siblings to prioitize those personal possessions that they prized over others that they didn't care about.
38Chevy454
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
In my parent's case of all the household stuff, probably 80% was either donation to thrift shops or dumpster, 10% give away to neighbors and friends, and maybe 10% to heirs.
Back on the corp prepaid legal plans. I also have that option and have it as an approx $20/mo benefit. Covers estate work and have used it to update our RLT and related documents. It seems a decent deal, but I do not utilize it every year. Initial RLT creation did cost some additional out of pocket cost.
Souschef
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
We had an estate plan drawn up, but we live in a small town, and it was about $500.
The key thing we did, was in the pocket in the front of the binder were lists of all accounts, including account numbers, addresses, and telephone numbers of all the brokers. Also included was a list of all our passwords. The third sheet was a list of the value of all our assets and who was POD/TOD on each one. That sheet gets updated quarterly.
The key thing we did, was in the pocket in the front of the binder were lists of all accounts, including account numbers, addresses, and telephone numbers of all the brokers. Also included was a list of all our passwords. The third sheet was a list of the value of all our assets and who was POD/TOD on each one. That sheet gets updated quarterly.
I have a TOD/POD question. If you have multiple recipients listed and one of them dies, do you have a provision so that the deceased recipient's share goes to his/her family or does it just revert to the other heirs, leaving nothing to the deceased recipient's family? If an heir dies its easy to just change the TOD/POD, but that assumes you are still mentally sharp enough to know to change it and that you are legally still in charge of your finances.
To the OP: In my area, one attorney has published a flat rate price for estate documents that is $900 for single persons, $1800 for married. Trusts were more.
To the OP: In my area, one attorney has published a flat rate price for estate documents that is $900 for single persons, $1800 for married. Trusts were more.
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pb4uski
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
It is the difference between "pro rata" or "per capita" and "per stirpes". With pro rata or per capita, the decedent's surviving beneficiaries share equally, so if you had 4 kids when you set up the TOD and one predeceses you then the pot is shared by the 3 surviving kids. With per stirpes, the heirs of any beneficiaries that predecease the decedent get the benefit of that share... so in the example the pot would be split 4 ways with 3 going to the decedent's surviving kids and 1 going to the deceased kid's heirs.
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OldShooter
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This question raises an issue that I almost decided to comment on earlier:
All of these various schemes come with maintenance overhead and risks. As financial situation and family things change, some of the various designations need to change too. If still in possession of marbles, one has to remember to make the changes and be sure the list of designations gets checked once in a while. No longer have your marbles, then the erroneous designation(s) can no longer be changed -- as @gromit points out. Changes where marble levels are uncertain are subject to court challenges too. The classic example is the ex-wife who is still the beneficiary of deceased hubby's work-provided life insurance.
Not to say that the schemes are inherently bad, but they are much less "fire and forget" than a well-written estate plan is.
Dash man
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Some reasons to have a trust:
1. To ensure estate and inheritance taxes are paid before distributions.
2. To ensure funds are available to pay for funeral and medical expenses.
3. To allow IRAs to retain their federal ERISA and state retirement fund protections from judgments and creditors after distributions and taxes paid.
4. To allow a corporate entity to manage the trust in complicated situations.
5. To allow for more conditional distributions if some beneficiaries are flaky.
6. If beneficiaries are minors.
7. If real estate or other assets are owned in more than one state.
8. Certain trusts can help avoid/reduce estate taxes.
9. To help children with special needs.
10. Avoid probate.
1. To ensure estate and inheritance taxes are paid before distributions.
2. To ensure funds are available to pay for funeral and medical expenses.
3. To allow IRAs to retain their federal ERISA and state retirement fund protections from judgments and creditors after distributions and taxes paid.
4. To allow a corporate entity to manage the trust in complicated situations.
5. To allow for more conditional distributions if some beneficiaries are flaky.
6. If beneficiaries are minors.
7. If real estate or other assets are owned in more than one state.
8. Certain trusts can help avoid/reduce estate taxes.
9. To help children with special needs.
10. Avoid probate.
As one with a sore experience with using the wrong word, I believe you meant STIRPES, not STRIPES.
In a per stirpes distribution, beneficiaries with the closest linear relation to you inherit an equal share of your estate when you pass away.
As I described in an another post, a LAWYER created a will using STRIPES instead of STIRPES and then proceeded to probate the will incorrectly after death, giving shares to the least related. Regardless, the one word used incorrectly is a big deal.
jollystomper
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For wills, medical directives, POAs, and trusts for DW and I we paid $1,700. The work entailed was a detailed questionnaire, a 2 hour meeting to review the questionnaire, the initial draft of the documents, several emails and a phone call with questions and clarifications to finalize the drafts, and a meeting to sign the final documents.
Tangent: for me the toughest part was determining if I wanted to designate my material possessions to any particular heirs. Beyond the house and cars, I came to the realization that I did not really care. DW, on the other hand, cares more about what folks will think about her after her death than I do
, has a multiple page document designating her things for various people.
Tangent: for me the toughest part was determining if I wanted to designate my material possessions to any particular heirs. Beyond the house and cars, I came to the realization that I did not really care. DW, on the other hand, cares more about what folks will think about her after her death than I do
, has a multiple page document designating her things for various people.
pb4uski
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Yes, you are correct stirpes.
8. Certain trusts can help avoid/reduce estate taxes.
This is likely the only reason we have for creating a trust structure. Our plan is to ultimately gift the estate way (doing a pretty good job so far). The trust simply covers us in case of sudden changes. My hope is that at some point that purpose will be finished, and POD/TOD can take over in lieu of the trusts. Now as for costs, I recently referred my dying friend and his wife to our attorney, I believe she did a great job for them for $2500 including a trust structure to preserve exemptions. In their case, a sudden death is more probable sooner, and they have no kids to gift to.
This is likely the only reason we have for creating a trust structure. Our plan is to ultimately gift the estate way (doing a pretty good job so far). The trust simply covers us in case of sudden changes. My hope is that at some point that purpose will be finished, and POD/TOD can take over in lieu of the trusts. Now as for costs, I recently referred my dying friend and his wife to our attorney, I believe she did a great job for them for $2500 including a trust structure to preserve exemptions. In their case, a sudden death is more probable sooner, and they have no kids to gift to.
mathjak107
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Only irrevocable trusts can effect taxes
Yes, you are correct, but a properly written Revocable Trust for a couple in our state will include a QTIP trust structure (similar to A/B) and applicable other functions such as a Clayton provision, allowing the creation of trusts (irrevocable) to preserve tax exemptions for state and Federal, while allowing the surviving spouse access to those assets during their lifetime. Yup, it gets so complicated some lawyers don't even get it correct.
An Irrevocable Intentionally defective grantor trust is a great example of a trust you can create to sell your assets to and received a stream of income. It is defective for tax purposes, but the income you receive is paying yourself so it is not taxed, since you are the tax payer for the trust. Boy, some would like to destroy this loop hole, but many wealthy folks enjoy gifting their heirs into such a trust. All of your rentals can be gifted, but you do not loose the income. The trust owns the rentals and pays you for them. The trust collects the rents and you still pay tax on the rents, but you get cash out from the sale. How many low cost estate planners will advise you on this structure?
mathjak107
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Last thing we want is to lose free reign over our assets .
While we have the ability to enact two disclaimer trusts we hope to never have to need them.
Cutting each other off from free use is the last choice we hope we don’t have to do
While we have the ability to enact two disclaimer trusts we hope to never have to need them.
Cutting each other off from free use is the last choice we hope we don’t have to do
Ian S
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Anything that has the potential for major capital gains. For most married couples, the federal estate tax no longer is a concern so setting up an appropriate living trust can yield a savings in capital gains when the surviving spouse eventually dies. It's something called the "Double Step-up in Basis" and it's explained here The Double Step Up In Basis: Traditional Planning Makes Kids Pay Extra Capital Gains Tax — Rabalais Estate Planning, LLC Regular bank and brokerage accounts may be worthwhile putting in too if large. Our attorney suggested ballpark anything over $100K after reserving an account amount outside the trust for general handling of routine expenses but we don't have that amount in such accounts.
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