Fasting for Health? Obstacles.

[MarieIG]

I've been reading some articles on Intermittent fasting and the positive health benefits. I started trying it this week in an 8 hour time window, but it feels like I just have to rush eating in hour 7 (even when I'm not hungry). But if I don't, I'm miserable later. Your thoughts? It seems weird to eat when you aren't hungry.

What was your eating window before (time wise) and what is it now?

What was your diet before (types of food) and what is it now?

 

[donheff]

That's a good point. I've always been one to eat to misery. I equated food with safety and contentment. I was always hungry, which is why I ended up being severely obese. I lost a fair amount of weight doing LCHF. But when I started doing IF, I discovered that I could be hungry and it was fine. It was a major light bulb moment for me, and changed my entire point of view about life, food, and everything. Now, after doing IF for most of a decade, I sometimes have to remember to eat. I still love food, but I can't pack it away the way I used to. It's amazing how you can completely turn things around and be very happy with the new way of doing things. As they always say, it's not a diet, it's a lifestyle.

That is interesting and feels true to me. I assumed most of my lack of hunger was a function of age, and it may be. But, maybe more of it stems from just delaying meals until the urge to eat passes. I do notice that, if I go out to a diner in the morning, I will almost always get a couple of eggs, sausage, hash browns, and toast, and I will wolf them down. If I don't have it in front of me a cup of coffee is fine.

I have a friend who is struggling with morbid obesity. I wish I could find a way to help her get your light bulb moment.

 

[Kroeran]

This fellow points to research that suggests the benefit of fasting is solely from the weight loss effect, which is nonetheless valuable if that works for you.

He further suggests that for older people, it’s harder to maintain stable protein intake, in support of muscle mass, which is a most serious issue.

I don’t know what to make of it

https://youtu.be/G3-EW7nWCbU?si=hQ1fln-KuOSmGU3F

 

[street]

This fellow points to research that suggests the benefit of fasting is solely from the weight loss effect, which is nonetheless valuable if that works for you.

He further suggests that for older people, it’s harder to maintain stable protein intake, in support of muscle mass, which is a most serious issue.

I don’t know what to make of it

https://youtu.be/G3-EW7nWCbU?si=hQ1fln-KuOSmGU3F

I think with weight loss comes many other health benefits for the body.

 

[Kroeran]

I think with weight loss comes many other health benefits for the body.

Yes, I did not sufficiently underline the fellow’s assertion, that if fasting works for you for weight loss, that’s its value, and that value is VERY significant.

His point was that if weight loss is not a challenge, or if you have another way to achieve your weight goals, AND if fasting is a challenge, AND if muscle loss is a concern, and maybe it should be dialed up as a concern, one may wish to think about the trade offs.

An older inactive thin person maybe should dial up interest in muscle and strength loss, based on my excessive study of Doctor YouTube. : - )

The exercising very fit under ‘40s of my clan seem to be doing very well with fasting. They do blended butter or full cream in morning coffee, zero carb, not zero calorie

 

[bmcgonig]

Yes, I did not sufficiently underline the fellow’s assertion, that if fasting works for you for weight loss, that’s its value, and that value is VERY significant.



His point was that if weight loss is not a challenge, or if you have another way to achieve your weight goals, AND if fasting is a challenge, AND if muscle loss is a concern, and maybe it should be dialed up as a concern, one may wish to think about the trade offs.



An older inactive thin person maybe should dial up interest in muscle and strength loss, based on my excessive study of Doctor YouTube. : - )



The exercising very fit under ‘40s of my clan seem to be doing very well with fasting. They do blended butter or full cream in morning coffee, zero carb, not zero calorie

I remember Peter Attias problem with time restricted eating or intermittent fasting is that his patients weren’t getting enough protein, and therefore losing too much muscle mass. Eating one or two meals a day limits your ability to ingest enough protein. If you’re very overnourished then thats not so much of an issue, but some of his patients just wanted to lose 10-15 lbs and the result might be that too much of that was muscle.

 

[Chuckanut]

I have a lot of old relatives who lived well into their 90s. Not a one fasted.

If it works for other folks great. I see no benefit for me.

 

[street]

Yes, I did not sufficiently underline the fellow’s assertion, that if fasting works for you for weight loss, that’s its value, and that value is VERY significant.

His point was that if weight loss is not a challenge, or if you have another way to achieve your weight goals, AND if fasting is a challenge, AND if muscle loss is a concern, and maybe it should be dialed up as a concern, one may wish to think about the trade offs.

An older inactive thin person maybe should dial up interest in muscle and strength loss, based on my excessive study of Doctor YouTube. : - )

The exercising very fit under ‘40s of my clan seem to be doing very well with fasting. They do blended butter or full cream in morning coffee, zero carb, not zero calorie

Yes, that is what I got out of it also. I don't believe IF is for everyone even if weight loss works for them. I also IF could do more harm than good also in certain body chemistry.
For me it wasn't for losing weight but for me it has done wonders for BP and cholesterol and sleeping. It has given me a more constant weight and I eat everything I want in that 6-hour window from noon to 6 PM.

 

[harley]

I have a lot of old relatives who lived well into their 90s. Not a one fasted.

If it works for other folks great. I see no benefit for me.

Actually, every one of them fasted, at least from bedtime until breakfast. Fasting is just going a period of time between meals. Sometimes you go longer than usual, and that is where the health benefit comes into play. Shaking up the old metabolism. But if you don't need or want it, fine. It can be useful, but it's certainly not a silver bullet.

 

[Murf2]

A question for any of you who IF but also take a fair amount of medication.
How do you manage / time your medications? I have taken my medications on an empty stomach before and it was very hard on my stomach. It seems like the “twice daily “ meds could be problematic.

Thanks,
Murf

 

[sparky08]

I had an 'annual' physical this past week. (I skipped a couple because of COVID, moving & finding a new doctor).

I need to lose 15 lbs. I asked about low carb, Mediterranean, etc. He didn't recommend
anything in particular, but said to eat healthy foods...

And he did say I should look into IF.

 

[Teacher Terry]

I naturally eat within a 8 hour window. I didn’t realize it until I saw this thread.

 

[harley]

A question for any of you who IF but also take a fair amount of medication.
How do you manage / time your medications? I have taken my medications on an empty stomach before and it was very hard on my stomach. It seems like the “twice daily “ meds could be problematic.

Thanks

Murf

I actually ran into that problem when I was doing IF. I Was able to arrange the pills that didn't bother my stomach during the fasting period, and the ones that required food I took during the period when I was eating. It worked out for me, but I could see how it would cause problems for other people with more difficult pill issues.

 

[USGrant1962]

Intermittent fasting gets quite a bit of discussion around here and I've tried it with no noticeable result. Now the American Heart Association says it is associated with a 91% higher risk of cardiovascular death!

https://newsroom.heart.org/news/8-h...d-to-a-91-higher-risk-of-cardiovascular-death

The article mentions short-term benefits, presumably weight loss. But of course the vast majority of diets result in short term weight loss.

Guess I should start eating breakfast...

 

[braumeister]

Guess I should start eating breakfast...

Don't base your conclusions on a press release. Without knowing the details of the study (which haven't been made public) we can't say anything about this.

 

[Koolau]

I think this discussion goes to show that, while we know and understand certain elements of nutrition (especially at the gross level) we still have a poor understanding of nutrition and it's effects on things like life span and overall wellness.

Part of the problem is that we are omnivores and the possible interactions and unknown unknowns of nutrition doom us to macro nutritional generalizations which, while useful, leave us floundering about in our actual eating habits.

Finally, individual human variations (summarized as genetic variations, perhaps) means that designing studies that will finally say "This is the way humans should eat" will probably never happen. And, of course, if they ever DO figure out the ideal, none of us will follow that ideal!

 

[Music Lover]

I've found that eating a healthy diet in reasonable portions is all that I need to do to maintain the proper bodyweight. It makes no difference what time I eat or if I have a late night snack.

You can pack a LOT of food into 2000 - 2400 calories when you avoid junk and empty calories.

 

[qwerty3656]

 

[Chuckanut]

Define fasting. Some people think fasting one or two days a week is a great idea. Others, think fasting 18 hours a day and eating as much as you want the other 6 hours is a great idea.

I looked at the 6/18 fasting routine. The problem I see with it is that some nutrients (protein and calcium for example) can only be absorbed in limited amounts at any given time period. You can eat your day’s supply in 6 hours, but a lot of it will end up going down the toilet. Not so good.

 

[Koolau]

I wondered about the other factors (like smoking and BMI, etc.) as pointed out in the recent video. If these were not controlled for, the original study could be garbage. A LOT of studies that make it into the press are actually garbage. As the guy in the recent video points out the small numbers being compared to the large numbers don't lead to a valid comparison either.

I took part in a study 15 years ago in which a university was trying to show how eating "manufactured" meat substitutes could help with weight loss. The diet was relatively restrictive but compliance was self reported. I could not stomach the substitutes so simply quit eating them! The weighing process was "rigid" (strip to underwear to weigh) BUT was self reported and at any time during the "w*rk" day - IOW when you could come in to use the one scale they had on site. I could have gained weight and written down that I had lost weight (I didn't - but no one would have known.) Participants (total) were about 25 IIRC. No significant control data was obtained other than all male and a relatively small age range. No data was taken about exercise or w*rk related activity, etc.

My point is that studies often fail in their design and certainly in their execution. Without rigid control the data can be meaningless. So glad someone found the video as I kinda thought the original 91% figure HAD to be flawed. I have no "dog in this hunt" as I haven't tried the fasting and probably will not. I just hate it when study results get thrown around without being able to examine the data that went into them.

 

[Patience]

It is a strange feeling, being so hungry that you're not hungry anymore. Unintentionally IFing during busy season gave me horrible migraines. Not hungry for breakfast, but too busy for lunch. By dinner time I just felt too tired to eat. Once you start eating though, it gets better. The hunger kicks in.
Keeping in mind anyone with sugar, migraine or cardiovascular issues should tread lightly with IF. Best advice is to make sure you're getting enough electrolytes to optimize water consumption. I've found that coconut water helps on days I don't have a lot of time to eat.

 

[street]

The article has been on National News and they said, more studies and science needs to be done for a conclusion.

 

[audreyh1]

The study- an abstract presented at an American Heart Association conference. No paper published. No peer reviews. Based on epidemiological data only, which means lots of confounders and no way to prove causation. All data is before 2017 before current time restricted eating as a health practice became wildly popular. Can easily be attributed to people with poor health habits meaning bad eating schedules (unhealthy user bias). It seriously does not pass the smell test. Looks like more of an attempt to shock people and get a lot of press coverage without even publishing a paper.

 

[Gremlin]

According to Perter Attia ( a

​

source that, as a physician myself, I trust) the study was so poorly designed as to make it essentially meaningless.

I tried to post a link to his post about this but, alas, I could not get it to work.

Intermittent fasting gets quite a bit of discussion around here and I've tried it with no noticeable result. Now the American Heart Association says it is associated with a 91% higher risk of cardiovascular death!

https://newsroom.heart.org/news/8-h...d-to-a-91-higher-risk-of-cardiovascular-death

The article mentions short-term benefits, presumably weight loss. But of course the vast majority of diets result in short term weight loss.

Guess I should start eating breakfast...

 

[MarieIG]

The study- an abstract presented at an American Heart Association conference. No paper published. No peer reviews. Based on epidemiological data only, which means lots of confounders and no way to prove causation. All data is before 2017 before current time restricted eating as a health practice became wildly popular. Can easily be attributed to people with poor health habits meaning bad eating schedules (unhealthy user bias). It seriously does not pass the smell test. Looks like more of an attempt to shock people and get a lot of press coverage without even publishing a paper.

IMHO - you nailed it.