Fixed Income is hard..... do not know which way to go

I can identify with the comments about getting overwhelmed on building the bond ladder. I definitely overcomplicated things initially. I was struggling with my beliefs around govt vs corporate bonds, where and how CD's fit in, where and how alternative fixed income like private debt funds fit in, how high yield fit in, the role of bonds vs bond ETF's, and how to build the ladder given the current yield curve inversion. I tried to do some paper trading but finally just gave up and started buying, chasing what looked attractive.

The whole process was chaotic and suboptimal. BUT, after almost two years I finally am zeroing in on what works for me. I'm 90% to where I want to be. I'm left with some investments I can't sell yet due to losses or lock-ins so I'm riding those out. A few things I discovered about me, that might help others decide how to do it:

1. What You Need - start with what you need in terms of income. I was very nervous because I'm too young for social security and had no pension. I went overboard chasing income. I now have too much. I'm trying to bring that down to a level that is closer to my spending requirements.

2. Bonds vs Bond ETFs - I really personally liked the certainty of locking in a rate of return for a period of time, and being able to invest along the yield curve where I felt prices were most attractive. So for my total fixed income allocation, it's 75% bonds. For the remaining 25%, it is in broad intermediate bond ETF's BIV and VCIT. I purposely stayed away from long-term bonds because I just don't like the current interest rate and inflation uncertainty. I also bought some high yield closed end bond funds and that was painful due to rising interest rates. If I had it to do over again, I obviously wouldn't have put hardly anything in high yield, or probably even CEF's.

3. Mix - I mixed in corporate bonds, Treasuries, CD's, iShares iBonds, Treasury iBonds, TIPS, and a bit of high yield bonds in my ladder, along with some private debt. I still am trying to tweak the percentages of each. In general I wanted about half govt and half corporate debt. I set a YTM target of 5% or higher for most investments because that aligns with my overall return objectives and cash needs.

4. Ladder - I've setup the ladder at 10 years, but years 8-10 are not fully funded. I'm too heavy in short term (1-2 year) investments. I just worried too much about rising interest rates and couldn't make myself pull the trigger. And the shorterm rates are too enticing. But, at least I have a ladder. And because my bond ETF's are at the end of the ladder with maturity periods of 6-9 years, they will automatically be buying more intermediate bonds along the way. That part of the "ladder" is automated.

5. Inflation concerns - my biggest concern overall is having a very small percentage of inflation friendly fixed income. I just can't add a lot of TIPS because most of my funds are in after-tax accounts and it would be a hassle. Plus the returns of TIPS are not 5% or better, unless inflation runs wild (which it might). If you really want to hedge inflation, you have to commit hard to TIPS and iBonds. I just couldn't make myself do it. At least I have a short ladder and can commit more to inflation bonds along the way if it makes sense to do so.

6. Specific Corporate Bonds to Buy - I developed my own criteria for what was a good bond for me. Besides reading the Moody reports, I developed other important criteria. I have a mix of A-rated and BBB-rated corporate bonds.

Have I done it perfectly? No. But I'm getting smarter every day.
 
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I combed through this entire thread. Many of us still have a sting in the rear-end due to what happened with Ye Olde Bond Fund in 2022.

These are thoughts I've collected while re-reading the thread:
- You can choose a bond fund or not. Sell it and you've realized a gain or loss, and then what? It's often said that there are additional decisions to make after you've made one.
- When you need to use bond income should be one of the first nodes in your decision tree.
- Some who comment are further aheadm and advice may not fit my needs.
- There's a cost for indexing, and another cost when markets move up or down, the Fed acts, and so on.
- The two-fund and three-fund portfolio are simple, yes, but 2022...
- Making decision A (sell that damn bond fund) had a reward early last year. But it led to another required future decision. Yes, there's time, rates will increase a bit more. But if you take a legacy view, then you'd want to go back to hands-off (passive approach).
- Total Bond always had a risk level - 2 out of 5 on the risk/reward scale. It wasn't 1 or 0. Now I get that...
- This old question is useful. If I have an investment that temporarily goes down in value, but puts us ahead in 5 years, do I prefer that over a 100% guaranteed return that will lose to inflation?
- Advice you receive is colored by the site (peer group) you seek advice from. Some are inflexible (for good reason) while others encourage a broader consideration of investment choices (for good reason.)
- A bucket approach in your investing model can help. Duration would be the core of the bucket design.
- Consolidation of accounts helps when simplifying portfolio design and management.
 
I combed through this entire thread. Many of us still have a sting in the rear-end due to what happened with Ye Olde Bond Fund in 2022.

These are thoughts I've collected while re-reading the thread:
- You can choose a bond fund or not. Sell it and you've realized a gain or loss, and then what? It's often said that there are additional decisions to make after you've made one.
- When you need to use bond income should be one of the first nodes in your decision tree.
- Some who comment are further aheadm and advice may not fit my needs.
- There's a cost for indexing, and another cost when markets move up or down, the Fed acts, and so on.
- The two-fund and three-fund portfolio are simple, yes, but 2022...
- Making decision A (sell that damn bond fund) had a reward early last year. But it led to another required future decision. Yes, there's time, rates will increase a bit more. But if you take a legacy view, then you'd want to go back to hands-off (passive approach).
- Total Bond always had a risk level - 2 out of 5 on the risk/reward scale. It wasn't 1 or 0. Now I get that...
- This old question is useful. If I have an investment that temporarily goes down in value, but puts us ahead in 5 years, do I prefer that over a 100% guaranteed return that will lose to inflation?
- Advice you receive is colored by the site (peer group) you seek advice from. Some are inflexible (for good reason) while others encourage a broader consideration of investment choices (for good reason.)
- A bucket approach in your investing model can help. Duration would be the core of the bucket design.
- Consolidation of accounts helps when simplifying portfolio design and management.


There is a big flaw in your post... who cares about 2022!! The research shows to buy and hold... what did you do back in 2007 to 2009? I had mostly stock and lost 40 to 50% but never sold..


If a 13% decline in a bond fund is scaring you off you just need to invest in CDs... get rid of that risk...



Also, what happened to your stock funds? I bet they made more than you lost in bonds...
 
Our fixed income (30%) is 50% in CDs & 50% in Money Market(close to a million) of a 70/30 portfolio, I want to explore if we could do any better than investing the money market in CDs.

Right now, the Money Markets at Fidelity & Schwab are doing well but they may not hold that too long, if nothing looks better than I will invest the rest in CDs.

Thanks in advance for your feedback

I have bought a lot of CDs over the past year. Although rare, you can sometimes find (at FIDO website) a few 5 year CDs (new, not secondary market) that are call protected, although the rates are a bit lower due to the call protection). You might consider that as a way to stretch your yield horizon.
 
I have bought a lot of CDs over the past year. Although rare, you can sometimes find (at FIDO website) a few 5 year CDs (new, not secondary market) that are call protected, although the rates are a bit lower due to the call protection). You might consider that as a way to stretch your yield horizon.



I still could be proven wrong going early, who knows. But last fall when 5 year non callables briefly touched 5% I twiddled my thumbs and lost out. I told myself if I got a second chance I wouldnt waste it. Then the bank panic rout hit early spring and 5%-5.2% noncallable 5 year CDs came out and I didnt hesitate that time.
 
I still could be proven wrong going early, who knows. But last fall when 5 year non callables briefly touched 5% I twiddled my thumbs and lost out. I told myself if I got a second chance I wouldnt waste it. Then the bank panic rout hit early spring and 5%-5.2% noncallable 5 year CDs came out and I didnt hesitate that time.

Money markets now produce the same yield. With a reasonable amount of risk you can get much more return in non callables - 6%+.
 
IMHO - the simplest way to do fixed income is to not do it at all, which is why my AA = 100% equities (excluding rentals and future SS). Other than some proceeds from dividends/rentals sitting in our checking/money market accounts, we just sell stocks as needed.

During last year’s bear market, we tax loss harvested hundreds of thousands of capital losses (amazing tax loop hole IMHO as all I did was sell VOO for VTI) and now I don’t have to pay capital gains tax for years to come.
 
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You can sum it up in this way: actively manage your bond portfolio.

Passivity has a cost as these threads illustrate.
 
I still could be proven wrong going early, who knows. But last fall when 5 year non callables briefly touched 5% I twiddled my thumbs and lost out. I told myself if I got a second chance I wouldnt waste it. Then the bank panic rout hit early spring and 5%-5.2% noncallable 5 year CDs came out and I didnt hesitate that time.
I feasted in the fall and in March. I want to add but the August rate surge has ended i think with slowing GDP, higher unemployment, fewer jobs created, fewer quits, etc.

Now maybe it will be replaced by a new yield surge or maybe flat to lower. I stand ready to buy if there is opportunity.
 
IMHO - the simplest way to do fixed income is to not do it at all, which is why my AA = 100% equities (excluding rentals and future SS). Other than some proceeds from dividends/rentals sitting in our checking/money market accounts, we just sell stocks as needed.

During last year’s bear market, we tax loss harvested hundreds of thousands of capital losses (amazing tax loop hole IMHO as all I did was sell VOO for VTI) and now I don’t have to pay capital gains tax for years to come.


+1

Yay, a man after my own heart.
 
IMHO - the simplest way to do fixed income is to not do it at all, which is why my AA = 100% equities (excluding rentals and future SS). Other than some proceeds from dividends/rentals sitting in our checking/money market accounts, we just sell stocks as needed.

During last year’s bear market, we tax loss harvested hundreds of thousands of capital losses (amazing tax loop hole IMHO as all I did was sell VOO for VTI) and now I don’t have to pay capital gains tax for years to come.


The negative on this is research shows this is not the best option for return vs risk... 100% is a very risky portfolio and has had huge down years (or more)...



It has been a long time so I could be getting this wrong... but look up efficient frontier, modern portfolio theory and (just looked it up) post modern portfolio theory...
 
The negative on this is research shows this is not the best option for return vs risk... 100% is a very risky portfolio and has had huge down years (or more)...

It has been a long time so I could be getting this wrong... but look up efficient frontier, modern portfolio theory and (just looked it up) post modern portfolio theory...


Bill Bengen’s 4% “rule/guideline” research contained data for various AA including a 100% equities portfolio, which produced a 98% success rate withdrawing 4% (plus inflation adjustment) annually for 30 years and a 100% success rate when pulling just under 4%.. Also note that an all stock portfolio has a much higher average return over all long term rolling time horizons.

My point here is that by me having a 100% equities portfolio for the past 25+ years has generated/increased my total NW so much that I now only need to pull 1% (if needed) to cover expenses. Again, I feel people are way too risk adverse and don’t realize that there is just as much risk (if not more) having a too conservative portfolio. YMMV
 
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^^^ I think most of us are aware of the pros and cons of such a portfolio. But do you think this is out of place in this thread?
 
^^^ I think most of us are aware of the pros and cons of such a portfolio. But do you think this is out of place in this thread?


OP states that fixed income investing is hard… I just provided an alternative viewpoint and why I personally don’t use fixed income assets like bonds/cd’s. A moderator is welcome to remove my post or I’ll delete it if asked.
 
IMHO - the simplest way to do fixed income is to not do it at all


:LOL:
Took the words right out of my mouth.
I've done literally dozens of backtests and I've come to the same conclusion. The risk is yes, the market goes down 50% and then stays down for years but that has never happened.
Bonds, to me, are a way to mitigate volatility, and last year they didn't even do that, but they usually do.
 
... The risk is yes, the market goes down 50% and then stays down for years but that has never happened. ...

Not yet in the US anyway, but prolonged bears have been seen elsewhere, suggesting that it is a possibility.
 
There are always comments that do not apply to the thread... I think this one is much closer than some...


I actually was basically a 100% equity until recently... now with rates up a good 6% to 10% yield each year seems to be a good thing.. others might not think so..
 
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Not yet in the US anyway, but prolonged bears have been seen elsewhere, suggesting that it is a possibility.


And exactly what you need to worry about if you retire.

If you invested 100% equities and can get to a WR of 2%, maybe even 3%, you’re rock solid. But if you retire at 3.5%+, there’s a real risk you will run out of money with a 100% in equities.

I’m likely to have a higher WR, even after investing for a couple of decades at 90%+ in equities. So to mitigate a prolonged bear, high inflation, etc, I’m building a TIPS ladder to guarantee min income. It’s cheap insurance.
 
There is a big flaw in your post... who cares about 2022!! The research shows to buy and hold... what did you do back in 2007 to 2009? I had mostly stock and lost 40 to 50% but never sold..


If a 13% decline in a bond fund is scaring you off you just need to invest in CDs... get rid of that risk...



Also, what happened to your stock funds? I bet they made more than you lost in bonds...
Why are you replying so harshly to my opinion? I don't understand this.
 
Money markets now produce the same yield. With a reasonable amount of risk you can get much more return in non callables - 6%+.



I consider it all pieces to an investing pie, not all or none. Money markets have reinvestment risk, 5 year non callable 5%+ CDs do not. I have several non callable IG bonds with 7-12 durations over plus 6%. Also have some below IG with double digit yields too. One could consider that more equity type, though the senior unsecured stack of companies is IG rated. Floating rate sub debt too anywhere from IG AllState plus 8.5% to NuStar junk plus 12%. So I pretty much hit all angles for now which also include TIPS, IBONDs, short sub year duration CDs, treasuries, and a few perpetuals too.
Been actually starting to reenter back into HQ IG perpetuals that are 30-50% below par from solid co’s such as Ameren Illinois, NSTAR Electric (originally issued Boston Edison), and DuPont (Ag division).
 
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