Flight SNAFU at BA and AA

[NW-Bound]

It was only after this forced detour that I appreciated how rugged the terrain of this region is.

Going west from Milan to France, you have only two main highways. The northern one E25 goes to Chamonix via the tunnel Mont Blanc T1. T1 is 12-km long (7.2 mi), and costs 48 euros one-way. You also go through this tunnel to go from Northern Italy to Geneve. I drove this road in a 2017 trip.

The other E70 toll road is the one I took this time, and it is the southern road to Lyon via Turin. It goes through the T4 tunnel of 13 km, with a fee of 45 euros one-way. This road was closed and I had to take the back road which veered further south.

It was only when I studied the map more closely that I appreciated how few roads there were in this area. And the reason was obvious when I drove through this mountainous region to see for myself how hard it was to build roads. And the Italians already bore uncounted lesser tunnels of as much as 1 to 2 km long through the mountains. I drove through too many of them to recall. And these shorter tunnels were all free to pass.

PS. The Mont Blanc T1 tunnel was built in 1965. The Frejus tunnel T4 was commissioned in 1980.

 

[NW-Bound]

ARGHH! More tortuous roads, more serpentine turns. You drive slow at 50 mph, and don't seem to make much progress. My wife said "Is that not the same mountain we saw 15 minutes ago?" It could be the same one, but we are now seeing the other side of it...

Meant to write "50 km/hr". That's 31 mph.

 

[Koolau]

You sure know how to have fun in your travels!

But seriously, we appreciate the trip reports and photos.

Yes, love the pics and back-story(s). Travel mercies to you for your trip and return.

 

[Bamaman]

I looked up your trip on Google Maps. What a lucky guy you are to go through incredible mountain scenery like on this trip.

We keep ending back in middle Italy, and I'm really missing my beloved Austrian Alps of Western Tirol.

 

[NW-Bound]

We walked 13 km about Lyon today (according to Google Map timeline). Even climbed the stairs from Cathedral St Jean Baptiste up to the Basilica de Fourviere.

We had been to Lyon in 2006 as a day trip by train from Geneva. In that short excursion, we walked from the Gare Part Dieu across town going up to the Basilica without using the funicular. I forgot that we did that, but I had the photos taken then to remind me of it. Neither of us remembered that climb, so it had to be child play then.

This time, we were sweating a bit, but we made it.

 

[NW-Bound]

May I ask what town or towns you visited in northern Italy?

Sure. This was my most enjoyable European car trek. It could just be because we were spending a bit more freely, part due to not being able to travel during COVID, part due to realizing that old age is creeping up on me already and I need to do more while I still can.

We flew in/out of Lyon, as there were 3 locations in France I liked to visit. Else, could have flown in/out of Milan. The whole itinerary is below, in the order of visit. It's 2,700 km by car, covered in 32 days.

Lyon (Fr), Annecy (Fr), Yvoire (Fr), Domodossola (It), Lugano, Bolzano, Ortisei, Cortina, Primiero, Trento, Venice, Verona, Bergamo, Lyon.

The above places are where we spent the nights, and do not include places we visited on day trips. We spent 2 to 4 nights in each place, except for Yvoire, Primiero, and Domodossola where we spent only 1 night for a break in driving.

The last leg of Bergamo -> Lyon was a bit tiring, but I wanted to have 4 nights in Lyon, and the time of day for car rental return and the return flight meant only 3 full days. I could not squeeze another day for a break in driving, so that last leg was a bit too long.

There are more places we could have visited, but then we would be talking about 3-4 months. It would also break the drive into shorter daily segments. Our time was limited by the help we could enlist to look after my mother-in-law while we were away. Else, could have gone for 45 days as we had done.

 

[Crabbyjerry]

Italy

Sure. This was my most enjoyable European car trek. It could just be because we were spending a bit more freely, part due to not being able to travel during COVID, part due to realizing that old age is creeping up on me already and I need to do more while I still can.

We flew in/out of Lyon, as there were 3 locations in France I liked to visit. Else, could have flown in/out of Milan. The whole itinerary is below, in the order of visit. It's 2,700 km by car, covered in 32 days.

Lyon (Fr), Annecy (Fr), Yvoire (Fr), Domodossola (It), Lugano, Bolzano, Ortisei, Cortina, Primiero, Trento, Venice, Verona, Bergamo, Lyon.

The above places are where we spent the nights, and do not include places we visited on day trips. We spent 2 to 4 nights in each place, except for Yvoire, Primiero, and Domodossola where we spent only 1 night for a break in driving.

The last leg of Bergamo -> Lyon was a bit tiring, but I wanted to have 4 nights in Lyon, and the time of day for car rental return and the return flight meant only 3 full days. I could not squeeze another day for a break in driving, so that last leg was a bit too long.

There are more places we could have visited, but then we would be talking about 3-4 months. It would also break the drive into shorter daily segments. Our time was limited by the help we could enlist to look after my mother-in-law while we were away. Else, could have gone for 45 days as we had done.

Thank you for sharing. My wife was born in Rome and we’ve probably been across 10 times. We been very lucky with air travel. I remember just one time we had a few hr delay due to snow and I realize that’s a good possibility since I’d rather go when it’s cool out. We were just back in August to visit her family in the sondrio area. I love driving and we rent a car and just pick a town and drive. I marvel at some of the roads in the mountains. Quite spectacular how they were built. Even tho they drive like nuts, did you notice, hardly any accidents lol. Thanks again for sharing. My wife’s uncle is quite elderly and has asking for us to come and see him so we shall see. Have a Happy holiday to you and your family

 

[NW-Bound]

... We were just back in August to visit her family in the sondrio area. I love driving and we rent a car and just pick a town and drive. I marvel at some of the roads in the mountains. Quite spectacular how they were built. Even tho they drive like nuts, did you notice, hardly any accidents lol...

Yes, I remember Sondrio, which we drove by in the leg of Lugano-Bolzano. Had wanted to stop there for 1 night, so that each day of driving is shorter. But while planning the trip, could not squeeze out another day from elsewhere.

So many places, so little time...

 

[Crabbyjerry]

Your last quote is so so true

 

[oiseux]

Oh, I missed this trip report in the middle of the thread that last time.


A few random comments


* Your stay in the Dolomites looked great. It definitely is a place I want to visit (I've been to almost all the others your visited). Would you recommend the place in Selva?

* The other route from Italy side to Chamonix is over the St. Bernard Pass, taking off from behind Aosta. It is not the way you would take to Chamonix (E25) but off to Switzerland. But it was a spectacular route.

* I've heard a lot about those small roads near Briancon. There are some that head south that are especially harrowing.



A favorite website of mine is called "dangerous roads". It traces some of the worst of the mountain passes and other roads throughout the world, but especially in the region you traversed.
https://www.dangerousroads.org/europe/france.html (see the Italy and Swiss sections as well)

 

[NW-Bound]

Oh, I missed this trip report in the middle of the thread that last time.

A few random comments

* Your stay in the Dolomites looked great. It definitely is a place I want to visit (I've been to almost all the others your visited). Would you recommend the place in Selva?

* The other route from Italy side to Chamonix is over the St. Bernard Pass, taking off from behind Aosta. It is not the way you would take to Chamonix (E25) but off to Switzerland. But it was a spectacular route.

* I've heard a lot about those small roads near Briancon. There are some that head south that are especially harrowing.

A favorite website of mine is called "dangerous roads". It traces some of the worst of the mountain passes and other roads throughout the world, but especially in the region you traversed.
https://www.dangerousroads.org/europe/france.html (see the Italy and Swiss sections as well)

Selva is replete with so many nice hotels. Booking.com shows so many with a guest rating of higher than 9, and the pricing is quite competitive. It was difficult to me to choose one. Hotels in Cortina are a little more expensive.

I just looked on the map for the St. Bernard Pass. If I come to this region again, may take this road. One could bypass the T2 tunnel if he has time.

Yes, I drove through Briançon when they closed down E70. Just now looked on the Web to learn this:

Briançon is the sole subprefecture of the Hautes-Alpes department in the Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur region in Southeastern France. It is the highest city in France at an altitude of 1,326 metres (4,350 feet), based on the national definition as a community containing more than 2,000 inhabitants.

It is surprising, because 4,350 ft is not that high. My high-country boondocks US home is at 7,000 ft, and the unincorporated town has more than 2,000. However, the roads are not as twisty after an ongoing project to enlarge the highway, level out all the hills or cut through them so that people can cruise at 70 mph on a divided highway. The vista was never as nice as the Alps region anyway.

The road I took through Briançon is not that perilous, at my driving speed. The road from Santa Maria Maggiore to Cannobio is a lot narrower and winding. Both have very nice vista. However, being at the end of the trip and having to take an unplanned detour which added to an already long driving day kept me from enjoying it. If I had time, would have stayed in Briançon for one night.

 

[DrRoy]

* Your stay in the Dolomites looked great. It definitely is a place I want to visit (I've been to almost all the others your visited). Would you recommend the place in Selva?

We had a trip this year that included 10 days in the Dolomites. We really liked our lodging in Selva - the Linder Cycling Hotel.
.

 

[oiseux]

Selva is replete with so many nice hotels. Booking.com shows so many with a guest rating of higher than 9, and the pricing is quite competitive. It was difficult to me to choose one. Hotels in Cortina are a little more expensive.

I just looked on the map for the St. Bernard Pass. If I come to this region again, may take this road. One could bypass the T2 tunnel if he has time.

Yes, I drove through Briançon when they closed down E70. Just now looked on the Web to learn this:

snip

The St Bernard pass (litlle & grand) is an interesting alternative to get into the Valais. You can also backtrack through the route from Martigny to Chamonix, which includes the specatacular side trip to the Emosson dam. The stop at the Emosson Dam is a nice one for the views, great alpine fondue and the dinosaur tracks, plus a tiny road that goes to the old dam.

I had to look at the Stelvio Pass information -- it seems spectacular and I should add it to my list of places to tackle.

 

[kgtest]

Back in June, I booked our Sep-Oct trip to Europe as follows with American Airlines (AA). It's codeshare with British Airways (BA).

* Going: PHX-LHR by BA; LHR-LYS by BA
* Return: LYS-LHR by BA; LHR-PHX by AA

I got seats assigned, the whole work. I then settled down to putting details into planning for this 4-week road trip to drive from France into South Tyrol, Italy. My wife even dragged me to the store to buy smaller carry-ons. We were all excited.

Less than 1 week after booking, BA sent my wife (not me) an email, saying that the flight PHX-LHR would be arriving at another terminal, and I would not have time to make the transfer for the continuing flight. I would have to call them to make changes. Tried to call. Nope. The machine said to try again another time. Too busy. There was no point in putting me in the waiting queue, I guess.

I read that BA was cancelling something like 10,000 flights, and things were in a mess. They were busy rescheduling current passengers hanging around in airports, and our flights were too far in the future for them to even know what to do. Better wait a bit.

I went to AA Web site to see what they said. The LYS-LHR flight was cancelled. I told my wife that if we could keep the long legs of PHX-LHR/LHR-PHX, I would try to find a different way to get from LHR to LYS and back, probably by a different airline operating out of Gatwick.

And as I was still working on the short legs of the travel, 2 weeks ago, AA sent me an email, saying here were the new flights.

* Going: PHX-LAX by AA, LAX-LHR by BA (what happens to LYS as final destination?)
* Return: LYS-MAD by Air Nostrum, MAD-JFK by AA (what happens to PHX as final destination?)

The strangest thing is the return legs will be on the same day as the arrival date, and earlier in the day. And my wife will be traveling alone. I guess they could not find seats for me.

I went to AA Web site to see what it said. All it said was the flights had changed. Tried to see what the changes were. It said "No can do, try some other times".

The whole thing is so messed up, I would be afraid to travel even if they found flights for us.

The past 4 flights I booked, all had changes that occurred after I booked them. My flight from US to France in route to Morocco was changed twice already. I just hope it remains that I can catch my connecting flight to and from at Paris so I don't have any overlapping issues.

In fact I JUST received a flight change email that said my flight out to Bristol in April for the Nascar Dirt Track series was pushed back to after midnight. SO I get to land with 2 children 7 and 5 and basically wake them up from a nights sleep and try and cart them off to our rental car. FUN.