Flying again after 24 years

[davismills]

Any "senior" pilots out there?

I'm planning a return to single engine aircraft flying after a lull of 24 years and I'm just wondering if anyone else has returned to this skill set and what surprises or obstacles you faced. My biggest obstacle right now is my DW.

I hold a Commercial license with a CFI with instruments, but I'm obviously not current. Passed the third class medical and just finished the CFI refresher course, which renews my CFI ticket for another 2 years. I have approximately 1000 hours with 175 as an instructor. I'm also a retired USAF navigator, but I'm now GPS dependent for all travel.

Thanks for any input. The rules and the airspace have changed quite a bit.

 

[LastOfTheBoomers]

FWIW - I've heard the regional airlines are so desperate for pilots they will take you with 1500 hours even if you are over 50 - fun part time job if you don't need the money!

 

[Souschef]

I am 79 and still flying. I had a lull also, but when I retired, I moved to a small town in Ventura County that was a half mile from the Santa Paula airport.
I took the Rusty Pilots course, and also some classes given by the 99's so I could use the GPS.
I got current again, and got involved with Civil Air Patrol, Angel Flight, where we fly patients to and from their treatments. I also got involved with Pilots & Paws, where we fly rescue animals to a new forever home.
Next year I will be eligible to join the United Flying Octogenarians.

 

[davismills]

I am 79 and still flying. I had a lull also, but when I retired, I moved to a small town in Ventura County that was a half mile from the Santa Paula airport.
I took the Rusty Pilots course, and also some classes given by the 99's so I could use the GPS.
I got current again, and got involved with Civil Air Patrol, Angel Flight, where we fly patients to and from their treatments. I also got involved with Pilots & Paws, where we fly rescue animals to a new forever home.
Next year I will be eligible to join the United Flying Octogenarians.

You restore my hope I took the Rusty Pilot course two weeks ago and it's a great program.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

+1 on the Pilots and Paws...a great program and they always need help!

Something I would give serious consideration to is insurance. At this point in life, you probably have sizable assets and you don't want them susceptible to liability issues. Also, even the older C-172s aren't cheap, so *if* you run a prop into something, you are liable to have to write a pretty big check. One last consideration to insurance...if you happen to carry umbrella insurance, you will most likely need to notify the insurance company if you want your flying covered. I did have to do that w/ Amica.

As far as being a regional pilot, I don't think you will want to do that. Most of those guys (and gals) that I know that did that flying hated life after about 6 months...and the pay isn't very grandiose. Plus, you would need an ATP, the "250 hour wet commercial ticket" won't cut it anymore.

One other thing. You mentioned GPS. In the world of aviation, it's pretty much a requirement (or should be). Sure, many of the old heads (and maybe you will want to break out the sextant and figure out where you are going. But, if you have an iPad, take a look at Foreflight. You might be amazed at the capabilites of this software and it can be a lifesaver if things get "interesting". https://foreflight.com/

 

[Pilot2013]

but, if you have an ipad, take a look at foreflight. You might be amazed at the capabilites of this software and it can be a lifesaver if things get "interesting". https://foreflight.com/

+100

 

[davismills]

+1 on the Pilots and Paws...a great program and they always need help!

Something I would give serious consideration to is insurance. At this point in life, you probably have sizable assets and you don't want them susceptible to liability issues. Also, even the older C-172s aren't cheap, so *if* you run a prop into something, you are liable to have to write a pretty big check. One last consideration to insurance...if you happen to carry umbrella insurance, you will most likely need to notify the insurance company if you want your flying covered. I did have to do that w/ Amica.

As far as being a regional pilot, I don't think you will want to do that. Most of those guys (and gals) that I know that did that flying hated life after about 6 months...and the pay isn't very grandiose. Plus, you would need an ATP, the "250 hour wet commercial ticket" won't cut it anymore.



One other thing. You mentioned GPS. In the world of aviation, it's pretty much a requirement (or should be). Sure, many of the old heads (and maybe you will want to break out the sextant and figure out where you are going. But, if you have an iPad, take a look at Foreflight. You might be amazed at the capabilites of this software and it can be a lifesaver if things get "interesting". https://foreflight.com/

I have an Android tablet so I'm out of luck with foreflight. I've heard great things about it, but just don't want to switch to the Ipad.

 

[Souschef]

Insurance

I rent the planes I fly. I have renter's insurance that covers any damage. Angel Flight requires I carry $500K liability insurance. My annual bill is about $150.
If you own a plane, that is a whole different animal as far as insurance goes.

 

[davismills]

I rent the planes I fly. I have renter's insurance that covers any damage. Angel Flight requires I carry $500K liability insurance. My annual bill is about $150.
If you own a plane, that is a whole different animal as far as insurance goes.

I appreciate the advice about insurance, especially if I decide to return to instructor's duties.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I appreciate the advice about insurance, especially if I decide to return to instructor's duties.

A trick I heard many instructors use was doing IFR training only and never act as the PIC. This can help reduce your insurance costs significantly. Sure, not as much fun as teaching primary students, but it makes the insurance more palatable.

 

[OldShooter]

I am 70, commercial and instrument rated, just north of 1,000 hours. 130+ airports and 39 tail numbers in my logbook. I just decided to let my medical lapse because I was/am no longer flying enough to maintain proficiency. One or two hours/month simply does not do it for me. So I'd encourage you to face the proficiency question squarely.

Tablets: Android is fine. Garmin Pilot is a popular app, though I prefer iFly GPS. Garmin is very unresponsive to users and the iFly guys are the polar opposite. But I'd avoid playing with these toys until you're back in the saddle for proficiency. They are a great way to avoid maintaining situational awareness and to avoid looking out the windows.

Insurance: Call Avemco. The people you talk to are underwriters and experts. They will discuss your situation, answer questions, etc. I can't say enough good things about them. Whether you buy from the is another matter. For simple planes, like Warriors, 172s etc. they are usually very competitive. They tend to not like things like Mooneys, Saratogas, etc. as reflected in less competitive rates. YMMV however.

Re not technically being PIC, everything I have heard is that if there is an accident the FAA is not interested in fine points. The CFI is considered to be the senior person in the cockpit and is thus responsible for whatever happens. I would not use this theory to avoid buying adequate insurance.

I have had friends try and then decide that Angel Flight didn't work very well with small singles. Between hauling capacity and limited ability to deal with weather they just had to decline too many flights. In the northern US, at least, a FIKI twin is probably the ticket. Turbo if you are in mountainous areas. YMMV, again.

If you want to really have fun, go here: See the real New Zealand. Your way. » Flyinn Just write the check; you won't regret it.

 

[check6]

though I prefer iFly GPS. Garmin is very unresponsive to users and the iFly guys are the polar opposite. But I'd avoid playing with these toys until you're back in the saddle for proficiency. They are a great way to avoid maintaining situational awareness and to avoid looking out the windows.

Insurance: Call Avemco. The people you talk to are underwriters and experts. They will discuss your situation, answer questions, etc. I can't say enough good things about them. Whether you buy from the is another matter.

Avemco rates always seemed high. Even going to high school with the president of Avemco didn't help. It cost about a thousand bucks/yr to insure my avatar.

I second the iFly GPS. Probably the best portable or their app on the market. Service is second to none. Flying is like riding a bicycle, you never forget. After a seven year layoff, one instructional flight, a BFR and back in the game. Flew this morning.

 

[pullin]

Old CFI here (61). I still instruct a little, but I'm turning down all new students. My FA and lawyer have convinced me to avoid the financial risk of ab-initio work. I only act as CFI for close friends and then just for currency (flight reviews and IPCs).

I've decided not to attend the FIRC this year and will let my instructor ratings lapse. After 34 years, I figure it's time to let the young-uns take over. I'll probably keep flying, but from the left seat only.


And as required in any gathering of CFIs, I must tell a story about one of my students:

Last year I settled into my window seat on an airliner and buckled up. A few minutes later the Captain walked back, hugged me and said: "Come up front Dad, I had them move you to first class."

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Last year I settled into my window seat on an airliner and buckled up. A few minutes later the Captain walked back, hugged me and said: "Come up front Dad, I had them move you to first class."

Love that story! One of the highlights of my life was taking my dear old Dad (he's technically my granddad but since he raised me, he will ALWAYS be my Dad/Father) up in my "beater" Cherokee. He was once an FE for Eastern Airlines (and was a private pilot/A&E) and aviation was/is in our blood.

 

[Rustic23]

Over 4,000 hrs flying time and I no longer fly. Oldshooter has it right as far as I am concerned. It's not about being able it's about proficiency, and there it's not about the time but the cash. Everyone needs a hobby, and air planes have to be one of the more costly one. When I was flying in the AF, I felt that 10 hours a month was needed to truly be proficient. I think that may be a little high if you really know your AC, but no less than 5. It's just a matter of priorities.

 

[OldShooter]

... Flying is like riding a bicycle, you never forget. After a seven year layoff, one instructional flight, a BFR and back in the game. Flew this morning.

Everyone is different I guess. I believe and I tell people that it's not like riding a bike.

Flying involves a lot of small, simple tasks. When I am not proficient, like after a time not flying, I still know all the tasks and I can still do all the tasks, but each takes slightly more time and absorbs slightly more mental horsepower that it does when I am proficient. This means that during a busy time, I have dangerously low spare horsepower available to deal with problems or emergencies. This is more true in glass cockpits than with steam gauges, but many tasks are still similar. Interestingly, in olden times when I was racing sports cars I saw the same phenomenon. After a layoff I could still do all the tasks but task executions were a few milliseconds slower and my lap times testified to that.

 

[davismills]

Thanks to all for the helpful insight. My plan is to take it back to instrument proficiency. I'm a little reluctant to start instructing again as the liabilities worry me a bit.

 

[Peter]

This discussion has been quite interesting to me, even though I'm a non-flyer.

 

[davismills]

A trick I heard many instructors use was doing IFR training only and never act as the PIC. This can help reduce your insurance costs significantly. Sure, not as much fun as teaching primary students, but it makes the insurance more palatable.

IFR only instructor training appeals greatly to me. Loved teaching instruments in the past. I've always liked teaching and taught platform, simulator and flight navigator training at Mather AFB, CA back in the late eighties. I hated night and day celestial, but if you gave me a sextant, I could probably pull it off. I think!

 

[OldShooter]

Over 4,000 hrs flying time and I no longer fly. Oldshooter has it right as far as I am concerned. It's not about being able it's about proficiency, and there it's not about the time but the cash. Everyone needs a hobby, and air planes have to be one of the more costly one. When I was flying in the AF, I felt that 10 hours a month was needed to truly be proficient. I think that may be a little high if you really know your AC, but no less than 5. It's just a matter of priorities.

Thanks for the support.

For me it's not about money. We have more money than we'll ever need. It's about purpose. With 130+ airports already visited, the usual $100 hamburger runs have limited attraction -- I've eaten pretty much everywhere withing a 100NM radius. And for travel, most of our travel is either international (and no, I don't have enough money for a Gulf IV) or driving is part of the trip. Two or three years ago we drove the Great River Road to Memphis. Saw lots of interesting stuff like Nauvoo, IL, not just cornfields and treetops. So, with no mission, I just don't fly enough.

The advantage the OP has is that if he gets back into instructing, he has the mission that will keep him proficient.

 

[Rustic23]

interesting comments about IFR training. I gave this advice to a friend. Get your IFR ticket and the never plan a trip where you have to use it! Cracking a 100 and a quarter mile vis under the hood is one thing. Planning on doing it in a single engine aircraft, IMHO is just plain stupid! Never flew the all glass cockpit so maybe that has changed things, but have lots of time in the weather landing in Germany and other places and IFR minimum are not fun!

 

[Souschef]

I have had friends try and then decide that Angel Flight didn't work very well with small singles. Between hauling capacity and limited ability to deal with weather they just had to decline too many flights. In the northern US, at least, a FIKI twin is probably the ticket. Turbo if you are in mountainous areas. YMMV, again.

I did 20 Angel Flights last year in a Cessna 172 Admittedly the SoCal weather is better than the Northeast. All I do is look down the list of open flights on the website, look at how far the flight is, and what the passenger weight is. Then I make my selection of flights I want. The planes I fly have a Garmin 430 GPS, which is very easy to program, once I learned how. In fact, my copilot, who does not have a license, does the programming.
So far this year I have done 10 Angel flights, and 3 Pilots & Paws flights.

 

[OldShooter]

... I gave this advice to a friend. Get your IFR ticket and the never plan a trip where you have to use it! ...

Then how is he proficient when he most needs to be? My approach has been to never plan a trip where there is a serious risk of minimums at the other end and to never launch when the WX is below minimums at my departure airport. Between shooting practice approaches to minimums, periodic flying in IMC and better-than-minimums destinations I end up with a proficiency level that is comfortable for me. I also actively seek out IMC days for practice approaches/currency maintenance.

 

[ERD50]

This discussion has been quite interesting to me, even though I'm a non-flyer.

+1

And 80% of the acronyms/initials and terms are Greek to me. But it's often exciting just to hear people talk about something they are passionate about, even if the subject is sort of a passing interest to me.

Though I've been goofing with some catapult gliders, had some fun with micro-quad-copters the past year, played with rubber-band powered flight, and am looking into building an electric RC slow-flyer. Pretty tame compared to flying some real metal! But I'll have some fun with it.

-ERD50

 

[Rustic23]

Oldshooter, surly you don't wait for airports to be at minimum to practice your approaches? I did not say never practice, or never use it. I said if the weather at your destination is a 100 and 1/4 and plan to go another day! I stand by that. Remember, we are talking about people that think they are current because they have three landings every 90 days. People that are flying not for profit, where a trip on Monday is just as good on Tuesday or next week. Just because you can does not mean it smart to do.

Also, I don't expect people to take that advice all the time. example John Kennedy.