Hallucinogens and addiction treatment

MuirWannabe

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Attached is an article on the modern use of things like LSD and magic mushrooms in the treatment of anxiety, depression, and alcohol addiction. I’ve seen this at least once before on a 60 minutes feature.

I’m interested in others thoughts. Not so much on the inevitable joking about tripping and drug use. Although feel free if you so choose. But as a dad of a son with severe anxiety and alcoholism, I guess stories on promising treatments tend to catch my eye. What a wonderful and much improved world it would be without addiction. This particular treatment approach seems scary to me. And certainly not fully vetted yet. But surprisingly, results seem to offer promise.


https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/24/health/goop-psychedelics-wellness/index.html
 
I did a lot of those drugs in college. LSD, peyote, mushrooms. Never had a "bad" trip, never had lost time or hospital time or legal problems. Got my degree.

I think those drugs are wonderful.
 
I read a long piece on this topic a few years ago, perhaps in the New Yorker? but apparently, sadly, testing in this area is not possible so much because of the drug classification.

there's a lot of discussion lately that smaller doses of these drugs may be very beneficial for acute problems.

Here's another piece on the topic:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/p...dman-found-a-calmer-life-on-tiny-doses-of-lsd
 
"Give 'em Soma."
 
I thought this was a very good book on the subject:
How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence https://www.amazon.com/dp/0735224153/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_o.olEbQ8FXB9X
Personally think the author backed the medical/psych only approach down playing the spiritual and re-creational uses.

I would not worry about the fear factors the government propagandists push. I took lsd many times with no ill affect. I'd worry most that you're not sure what and how much you're ingesting than anything else. Hard to be sure what you're buying since it's all illegal.
Wish I could have gotten DW into a trial program. Lsd and psylosibin would have been less deadly than the legal sh#t that killed her.
 
It's an exciting time for medicine. These were written off by mainstream research many years ago and left to the counter culture. Many have excellent potential for breakthroughs. Last year at this time DW was in the middle of a 72 day migraine, conventional medicine had zero answers. I didn't know where to get psilocybin but had found where to purchase the supplies to grow some. Conventional medicine had no idea why biofeedback broke her headache so their value is?
 
It's an exciting time for medicine. These were written off by mainstream research many years ago and left to the counter culture. Many have excellent potential for breakthroughs. Last year at this time DW was in the middle of a 72 day migraine, conventional medicine had zero answers. I didn't know where to get psilocybin but had found where to purchase the supplies to grow some. Conventional medicine had no idea why biofeedback broke her headache so their value is?


Wow. 72 day migraine sounds like the 7th circle of hell. Had no idea that could happen. Glad it finally stopped.
 
I thought this was a very good book on the subject:
How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence https://www.amazon.com/dp/0735224153/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_o.olEbQ8FXB9X
Personally think the author backed the medical/psych only approach down playing the spiritual and re-creational uses.

I would not worry about the fear factors the government propagandists push. I took lsd many times with no ill affect. I'd worry most that you're not sure what and how much you're ingesting than anything else. Hard to be sure what you're buying since it's all illegal.
Wish I could have gotten DW into a trial program. Lsd and psylosibin would have been less deadly than the legal sh#t that killed her.


Thanks for the book recommendation. I too am not interested in anything but the treatment effects for mental illnesses and addiction.
 
I read a long piece on this topic a few years ago, perhaps in the New Yorker? but apparently, sadly, testing in this area is not possible so much because of the drug classification.

there's a lot of discussion lately that smaller doses of these drugs may be very beneficial for acute problems.

Here's another piece on the topic:

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/p...dman-found-a-calmer-life-on-tiny-doses-of-lsd


That’s an interesting article. She’s a bizarre person. But her results were hopeful. Thanks for sharing.
 
I mostly did those things for the “harmful side effects”... [emoji41]

I don’t really think we have a clue about the human brain. Anxiety, depression, mania, etc. are much more prevalent than one might imagine. We tend to think of “normal” and not, but there’s a very broad spectrum of how our brains, and various biochemical functions, operate, or fail to...
 
Wow. 72 day migraine sounds like the 7th circle of hell. Had no idea that could happen. Glad it finally stopped.
It was, on top of the pain the medical folks could use a lesson in empathy. I remember the nuerologist appointment when she was told "nobody's ever died from pain" as they had zero answers when the standard abortives didn't work.

A couple of trips to the ER convinced her they had less of an idea then we had. One day they decided she was having a cluster headache. That's okay because they treated her for one with ketamine. I guess that's a great med for cluster headaches, unfortunately she wasn't having a cluster.

Reading various boards it's amazing how many people have chronic severe pain that traditional medicine has zero clue about. The gal who taught DW biofeedback had more ideas than traditional medicine. I was in the room when her headache broke during a biofeedback session. No ***** pocus, relaxation, deep breathing, no headache.
 
I enjoyed mushrooms & LSD in my college days. There is also DMT, which I hadn't heard of until recently. LSD & DMT sound like chemicals, but they are both derived from plants. LSD comes from a type of mold and DMT is said to be in hundreds of plants, maybe more. DMT is the main active ingredient in Ayahuasca, which is a brew that South American shamen use. DMT has been called "The God Molecule" because the trip tends to have strong spiritual leanings for many, if not most users. I've tried it once, so I can't give the most detailed descriptions of it. One thing that really surprised me initially about it was the instantaneous effect it had. As soon as the DMT vapor is inhaled it takes effect. There is almost zero lag, maybe 5-10 seconds. The entire trip is quite short-lived, about 15-30 minutes. Ayahuasca, being a brew that is drunk, I think lasts 4-5 hours.

It's been 30 years since I had mushrooms or LSD, so my memory and my mind/mindset have likely changed over time, so I can't really give an accurate or fair comparison of them to DTM. But my experience with DMT last year made it very clear why it's called The God Molecule. It was so much more than a recreational "trip". I remember a strong spiritual feeling that I was in the presence of higher beings, and that I felt they had "invited" me there, and had been waiting for me to arrive. No one was visible, but I felt their presence and their love surrounding me. God seemed to be nearby, but I knew we wouldn't meet that day. I understood that it would have been overwhelming.
The visual hallucinations I had weren't actual hallucinations. Besides the initial first moments of the trip, all of the visuals were with my eyes closed. I didn't see any beings. I saw richly colored mosaics, whose colors and shapes continuously evolved. The colors were a rich pallet of transparent jewel tones. A rainbow of colors like ruby, topaz, amethyst, and cobalt blue. The mosaics shapes were very sharp and precise, but stretched in a linear fashion. It was like being in a long cavern, and the ceiling and walls were covered in the mosaics that stretched like looking down a tunnel.
So, to sum it up, while my mind & heart were bathed in love and hope my eyes were being treated to a fantastic kaleidoscope-like display.

I realize a lot of people wouldn't enjoy such an overwhelming trip. But it wasn't overwhelming to me. I immensely enjoyed it. I read about it beforehand. So I had an idea of what to expect. I knew that I needed to be in a peaceful calm place, I turned down the lights, lit a couple of candles, and turned on some good music on medium-low volume.

I'm looking forward to the time when I can try it again.

There is a wealth of information online about these and other entheogens (natural based drugs). I've read a little of it out of curiosity. There's a type of root bark that with a high concentration of DMT that is imported from tropical places which is popular for extracting it. The process consists of a combination of acid & base cooking & washes to break down the fiber and release the active ingredients. That's eventually dried into a powder form that's smoked in a vaporizer.
There are dozens of other plants that contain high enough levels of DMT to extract. Most of them are tropical & require warm climates, like Florida, to grow. But there are actually types of grasses that contain DMT, and those will grow in much colder climates.

There seems to be a culture of hippy science geeks that figure all this stuff out. Probably a fair number of them work in universities, big pharma, and the mental medical fields.

Note: I have read warnings for people with certain types of conditions. I don't recall all the details, so you need to do your homework. I do remember that these are not good for people with Schizophrenia.
 
I mostly did those things for the “harmful side effects”... [emoji41]

I don’t really think we have a clue about the human brain. Anxiety, depression, mania, etc. are much more prevalent than one might imagine. We tend to think of “normal” and not, but there’s a very broad spectrum of how our brains, and various biochemical functions, operate, or fail to...

I have read/listened to one psychiatrist who says that diet has a huge impact on common chronic disorders like anxiety, depression and mania, and she first addresses diet before working with drugs.
 
I thought this was a very good book on the subject:
How to Change Your Mind: What the New Science of Psychedelics Teaches Us About Consciousness, Dying, Addiction, Depression, and Transcendence https://www.amazon.com/dp/0735224153/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_o.olEbQ8FXB9X
Personally think the author backed the medical/psych only approach down playing the spiritual and re-creational uses.

I would not worry about the fear factors the government propagandists push. I took lsd many times with no ill affect. I'd worry most that you're not sure what and how much you're ingesting than anything else. Hard to be sure what you're buying since it's all illegal.
Wish I could have gotten DW into a trial program. Lsd and psylosibin would have been less deadly than the legal sh#t that killed her.



+1 for Michael Pollan’s newest book. He also wrote the mega bestsellers “The Botany of Desire” and “The Omnivore’s Dilemma.” He came to town this year and I heard him interviewed live about “How to Change Your Mind.” The guy is simply brilliant. I’ve never heard a clearer description of the mind. He approaches this subject very soberly and in the hope that these promising alternative therapies can be provided legitimate study funding and that stigma will be reduced for researchers who study them, especially psilocybin. He espouses therapy in the hands of a practitioner guide, not unmediated recreation. If done right, psilocybin therapy can lead to breakthroughs and improvements to mental health far more quickly than years of talk therapy. The way he presents the promising information is compelling.

The presentation I attended is available for streaming: https://www.mprnews.org/story/2019/05/27/how-to-change-your-mind-with-michael-pollan-and-dessa
 
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I think we need to give these ideas a chance, including allowing LSD in studies.

It is really unfortunate that things like psychedelics and opioids are abused and then The Man comes in to ruin it for everyone. You don't have to turn it up to 11. Sometimes 1 is just perfect.

It won't be long until opioids are declared useless by The Man too. After all, as someone said above, "Nobody dies from pain." ... BS!

Disclosure: I have not taken any psychedelics. I've had very short runs on opioids after surgery with no problems. Even though I don't have first hand knowledge of psychedelics, I think there is enough there to explore further.

The story of Syd Barrett scares me a bit, but everyone who discusses his use says he didn't just turn it up to 11, he turned it up to 111.
 
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I have heard mushrooms are more spiritual learning and about the connection between humanity. I think empathy (for others - not just focusing on yourself) and personal connections to people can resolve a lot of peoples depression. Also a lot of nature appreciation - on a nice spring day in a park or woods with a slight breeze to watch the leaves move.

Really no down side to it that I’m aware of.

You will most likely have a new perspective on life after a one time event. Although if you are interested in your kid doing it, you should do it with them.

You could have the most honest conversation without the ego or getting upset and shutting down.
 
Thanks for the book recommendation. I too am not interested in anything but the treatment effects for mental illnesses and addiction.
There is a section addressing alcohol abuse treatment. Interesting that Bill W. Of AA was dosed with an hallucinagenic that led to the spiritual (higher power) component of the program.
 
I’ve read a bit on the use of hallucinogens in helping people face a fear/severe anxiety of death - many seem to find it helpful (or they are the only ones writing about it). Here’s an article from Scientific American on the topic as it relates to fear of death but it also talks about the potential for alcohol and addiction treatment. The article also touches on treatment for smokers trying to quit cigarettes.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/psilocybin-a-journey-beyond-the-fear-of-death/
 
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I have a younger brother (just turned 60 years-old), who was diagnosed as bipolar only a few years ago. A bright and hard working individual, he has struggled with alcohol addiction most of his adult life. I would imagine much of his alcohol abuse (along with using marijuana daily) were attempts at self-medication. His manic/depressive episodes have been frequent and severe (at least one of his manic episodes resulted in an arrest). Having gone through several treatment programs without any long term success, he began seeing a psychiatrist who prescribed some powerful psychotropic meds along with encouraging him to attend AA or NA. When I last saw my brother a few years ago, he was on meds and apart from appearing somewhat lethargic, seemed to be in a much better place than he had previously. What I've heard from my sister who lives relatively close to our brother, he recently made the decision to cease therapy, go off the psychotropic meds and instead resort to self-medicating with marijuana and alcohol.

It seems that hallucinogens could provide genuine help for those suffering from addiction. I do wonder, however, if using them might only exacerbate mental health issues like those experienced by my younger brother. It wouldn't surprise me at all if he's used hallucinogens from time to time.

And as a side note, my brother, who has been single most of his adult life, was able to retire financially independent at the age of 55. My sister and I were continually amazed at how our brother was able to function so well in his previous w*rk environment considering the severity of his mental health and addiction issues.
 
This video just popped up on my YouTube page today. I watched it and thought it was well done. I learned that researchers have found that some psychedelics enable the brain to grow neurons, which was thought to only occur during childhood.

Here's the link:
 
Anyone seen the TV Series Paranoid? It could be the reality of these types of drugs. No spoiler here, you really have to see the show and watch all of it.
 
Timothy Leary must be chuckling about this turn of events.
This thread needs some proper Moody Blues, Legend of a Mind. One of my favorite songs of the psychedelic era. DW and I had one of our first big dates at a M.B. concert. Far out!
 
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