MRG
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2013
- Messages
- 11,078
Agreed if we're going to go naked and not everyone is there? No pictures and it didn't happen.This post is useless without pictures.
Agreed if we're going to go naked and not everyone is there? No pictures and it didn't happen.This post is useless without pictures.
There are at least six different ways our society gives me advantages over other people, utterly unrelated to my myriad earned advantages. Eliminating those kinds of advantages from society overall would assuredly be an improvement in justice. I doubt society will have the will to do so in any substantive way in the short term so the concerns expressed above are premature.
Equal opportunity does not mean equal outcome. Life presents you with many opportunities (and challenges). What you do with them determines your outcome. If we go to a system that demands equal outcomes, no one will work to do better than the next person and our society will weaken and collapse.
Equal opportunity does mean an elimination of unearned advantages leaving people only their earned advantages, as much as that would tend to adversely affect, and upset, those who enjoy such advantages today.
There are at least six different ways our society gives me advantages over other people, utterly unrelated to my myriad earned advantages. Eliminating those kinds of advantages from society overall would assuredly be an improvement in justice. I doubt society will have the will to do so in any substantive way in the short term so the concerns expressed above are premature.
"All the while, they support policies and practices that protect their economic position and prevent poorer kids from climbing the income ladder: legacy admissions, the preferential tax treatment of investment income, 529 college savings plans, ...."
Guilty as charged - yup, used 529 accounts to 100% pay for state university for all 3 kids (tuition, room and board).
I feel terrible for doing this. I guess I should've spent this money on a vacation house, and fancy European cars every couple years, and then been eligible for financial aid.
And the point isn't for anyone to feel guilty about what they have. The point is for people to not obstruct changes that seek to undercut or compensate for what is structurally amiss.I grew up white, male, in a working class neighborhood, coming of age in the late 60's and early 70's. I acknowledge that a certain element of privilege is associated with my demographic.
I never earned more than 70K/year placing me squarely in that 80% cohort. Same with DW - a public school teacher earning much less than me.
No resentment on our parts nor a feeling that others with more dough owed us anything. We w*rked hard, LBOM's, saved 'til it hurt and were content with simpler things in life.
There is, however, something structurally amiss in a society like the U.S. that now has nearly unparalleled wealth disparity. I'm not sure it's resentment on the part of the lower 80%'ers for the top 20% as it is resentment for a system that has permitted so much wealth to accrue to the top 1/10th of 1%.
And the point isn't for anyone to feel guilty about what they have. The point is for people to not obstruct changes that seek to undercut or compensate for what is structurally amiss.
And the point isn't for anyone to feel guilty about what they have. The point is for people to not obstruct changes that seek to undercut or compensate for what is structurally amiss.
This is a common misconception. Giving people what you deign to give them is Lording over them. That's not to say it isn't generous, or that you should stop it, but considering it sufficiently beneficent is a self-deception. Having been brought up in a society which is "structurally amiss" as outlined above, it is not uncommon for people to make that mistake.Oh, no, I don't feel guilty. I do a lot for folks less fortunate than I, but not because someone else thinks I should nor because I think I played any part in their "misfortune."
Does someone have too much time on their hands?
Oh, never mind, lots of retired folks hang out here!
.... If you truly care about those less fortunate, you would, at least to some extent, put their voices first, use your privilege to elevate their perspectives, and prioritize what they say they need rather than what you deign to bestow on them.
That would be a great start.Solution? Get private money out of politics and stop gerrymandering.
This is a common misconception. Giving people what you deign to give them is Lording over them. That's not to say it isn't generous, or that you should stop it, but considering it sufficiently beneficent is a self-deception. Having been brought up in a society which is "structurally amiss" as outlined above, it is not uncommon for people to make that mistake.
If you truly care about those less fortunate, you would, at least to some extent, put their voices first, use your privilege to elevate their perspectives, and prioritize what they say they need rather than what you deign to bestow on them.
Insisting that it is only the criteria that you deign to acknowledge that indicates whether or not someone else, given their circumstances, should enjoy the same success you did is yet another reflection of privilege being Lorded over those less fortunate. A lack of appreciation for how things are different for other people is precisely what perpetuates the structural problems within society.
The real shame of it is that this understanding probably would have reached more Americans if the way it was being delivered was not so political. This is a moral issue and if any institutions in the United States have failed our society it is without a doubt those institutions that formed our moral Center. The ascendancy of the reactionary religious right and it's focus on it's on Dogma rather than on fostering a better life for all, combined with the failure of even moderate religious institutions to be the literal binding of our society, abrogating their responsibility to bring us together, have helped bring about and foster the situation we're in now. You can see little bits and pieces here and there where they're trying to now yell through the dining, "Wait wait wait! Jesus was all about the poor!" But it's just noise in the ears of many.
And it sure doesn't help that now the strongest voices are trying to use guilt and recrimination to get the message across. That's yet another bad bad idea. (And the topic of my message to the congregation this morning incidentally...)
What a bunch of BS.
Asked and answered above. A lack of appreciation for how things are different for other people is precisely what perpetuates the structural problems within society.
Agreed. There's really no context for discussion at this point, since the resistance to understanding something other than what one experiences themselves is so high.Problem is in the US that 80% will believe anything that is posted, tweeted or said by any of their peer group. The amount of energy that is spent believing piffle could be better used in making a concerted effort to become part of the 20%.
This does not include the really misfortunate of our society who through no fault of their own have ended up there. They genuinely need our help.