Here's what my 1% fee Fidelity Portfolio Advisors have me in

FD need not be so defensive.

Ever hear the old phrase of "walking a mile in their shoes"?? That's what I am alluding to here. Grep is one of those that think FAs lie in wait around every bush, waiting to pounce on unsuspecting grannies and their ilk............:LOL:
 
And your point is? :angel:

My point is this thread is yet another casualty of massive thread drift, and we have tens if not hundreds of threads about stuff like this. Most folks on here have no idea what an FA's life is like, much like I have never been in the military or worked as an engineer or whatever. When you act like you know everything about an industry you have never worked in, you don't come across well.........;)
 
Man, you are touchy, aren't you. Guess I can't blame you. You do take a lot of grief.

Personally, I've been looking into getting to be a Finance Dude myself. It would be years away, since I'd have to learn a lot, get certified, and all that. I'm not necessarily looking for a career, since I'm FIREd. I was actually thinking of being a fee-only planner/advisor, mostly to try to help people learn about taking care of their finances. So many of the people I know are so completely clueless I would like to help them learn enough to be able to identify the helpers from the sharks. Especially older people, and also youngsters just getting started. Maybe teach some continuing ed classes too.

I don't know if this will ever happen, but it's a thought. When I complained to my DW and DD that I've never found a passion in my life, they both pointed out that I love to read and learn about finances. I tend to get analysis paralysis, but I do really like it. If I could help some people and maybe pick up a few bucks along the way, that would be cool.

So give it a few years, and I might be shoulder to shoulder with you fighting off the barbarians. :bat: Or not. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.
 
Man, you are touchy, aren't you. Guess I can't blame you. You do take a lot of grief.

Not that touchy. I realize this is a DIY place and I am viewed as the scourge of mankind. However, IMHO that doesn't mean that just because you have a portfolio for yourself that anyone can be an FA. Many on here probably think that its easy, but with an 80% attrition rate in the first year I beg to differ.......:)

Personally, I've been looking into getting to be a Finance Dude myself. It would be years away, since I'd have to learn a lot, get certified, and all that. I'm not necessarily looking for a career, since I'm FIREd. I was actually thinking of being a fee-only planner/advisor, mostly to try to help people learn about taking care of their finances. So many of the people I know are so completely clueless I would like to help them learn enough to be able to identify the helpers from the sharks. Especially older people, and also youngsters just getting started. Maybe teach some continuing ed classes too.

Hey, why not. However, be aware that fee-based planners are closing up shop right and left. Most can't make it on just doing financial plans. I know of 7 in the Milwaukee area alone that have closed up shop......:(

I don't know if this will ever happen, but it's a thought. When I complained to my DW and DD that I've never found a passion in my life, they both pointed out that I love to read and learn about finances. I tend to get analysis paralysis, but I do really like it. If I could help some people and maybe pick up a few bucks along the way, that would be cool.

So give it a few years, and I might be shoulder to shoulder with you fighting off the barbarians. :bat: Or not. It will be interesting to see what comes of this.

That is exactly what I did. I was giving out so much free advice I figured I might as well get paid for it.........:LOL:
 
My point is this thread is yet another casualty of massive thread drift, and we have tens if not hundreds of threads about stuff like this. Most folks on here have no idea what an FA's life is like, much like I have never been in the military or worked as an engineer or whatever. When you act like you know everything about an industry you have never worked in, you don't come across well.........;)
Hey, at least you haven't said "You have to understand" or asked us to feel sorry for "the poor salesman".

Having said that, I think that the sins of a few bad apples overwhelm all the good done by those who care. In addition, I think the industry has gone out of its way to confuse, obfuscate, delay, and generally drag their feet in the face of well-meaning attempts to minimize the bad apples.

Witness the widespread growth of 12(b)1 fees and the staunch defense of their continuance. Witness the SEC's food fight over what an advisor is or isn't allowed to say/do. Look at all the funds which are widely agreed to be bloated yet continue to take more money. Look at the expense ratios of said funds, which continue to stay flat or even rise despite the doubling or tripling (or 10-bagging) of the fund's size. (Even Tweedy, Browne has been guilty of these last two issues.) Look at Vanguard's relentless push a few years back to have customers consolidate their assets at their place, even if it wasn't such a good idea.

When I read magazines written by the industry for the industry, it's hard to detect any effort to show customers how to do for themselves. I almost never see articles on "Teach your clients how to evaluate a mutual fund!" or "Here's 10 handy hints on diversification!!" Heck, it's hard to find an advisor who'll lay out the options of American Funds (with all their breakpoints), DFA (with all their slice & dice), Vanguard (indexes), and ETFs (cap gains efficiency). Instead it's mainly about holding customer's hands and reassuring them while growing your own business.

A while back you or Saluki mentioned the FA's typical customer-- an upper-middle-class exec who discovered "Holy crap, 95% of my portfolio is locked up in restricted company stock, company stock options, shares of company stock, and deferred compensation. I've spent all the rest of my paychecks on McMansions & SUVs and I might be unemployed later this year. Can you teach me how to save enough to start one of these new-fangled "IRAs" and maybe learn to spell "diversification"?"

You two probably do good work in your jobs and deservedly sleep well at night. But if you're tempted to defend your industry, then you oughta clean house first.
 
You two probably do good work in your jobs and deservedly sleep well at night. But if you're tempted to defend your industry, then you oughta clean house first.

A couple things to be fair and complete.


1. It isn't AN industry, it's many industries. To make it easy you can separate it into 'advisory" business which is fee based and Brokerage which is commission based. Most of the bad happenings occur on the brokerage side, but every once in a while we get some bad press too.

2. Blame mutual fund managers for the 12b-1 issues, that is their creation.

3. I can't really think of another business that exists to educate their customers until they don't need your services. Your doctor has a financial incentive to make sure you don't start diagnosing your own infections, your plumber probably doesn't teach to how to avoid having to call him, why should this business be any different?

4. I don't know which of the industry rags you are reading, but I would start with the Journal of Financial Planning, Financial Planning Magazine, or Investment Advisor. These cater to the fee based market and are mostly comprised of technical articles.

5. I believe that quote you were referencing was from me. If I told our firms average client ($2M+ avg liquid net worth) that I wanted to teach them to do my job for themselves they would refuse 99% of the time. I try to use my time in front of clients to educate them about investments, the differences between asset classes, etc usually with very little interest. Most are happy to pay a % of their assets to have somebody make better decisions for them than they would do on their own.
 
3. I can't really think of another business that exists to educate their customers until they don't need your services. Your doctor has a financial incentive to make sure you don't start diagnosing your own infections, your plumber probably doesn't teach to how to avoid having to call him, why should this business be any different?

Actually I think doctors are continually telling you how to get or stay healthy and would love to never see you again except for regular check-ups. And every plumber, electrician, HVAC guy etc has always shown me what they are doing so if it happens again I won't have to call. I doubt anyone would begrudge a FA his/her fee for regular check-ups if the person didn't want to do it themselves completely. I think it's more the guys who are pushing the high commission products when something better is available that draw the anger. That would be more like your doctor telling you you need a CAT scan to pump his income. I'm sure there are some like that, but they also are deserving of scorn.
 
Witness the widespread growth of 12(b)1 fees and the staunch defense of their continuance. Witness the SEC's food fight over what an advisor is or isn't allowed to say/do. Look at all the funds which are widely agreed to be bloated yet continue to take more money. Look at the expense ratios of said funds, which continue to stay flat or even rise despite the doubling or tripling (or 10-bagging) of the fund's size. (Even Tweedy, Browne has been guilty of these last two issues.) Look at Vanguard's relentless push a few years back to have customers consolidate their assets at their place, even if it wasn't such a good idea.

Good point........

When I read magazines written by the industry for the industry, it's hard to detect any effort to show customers how to do for themselves.

Most of them don't. However, they probably think that if the advisor does a really good job of educating, he will work himself/herself out of a job. I personally have found that NOT to be the case.

Heck, it's hard to find an advisor who'll lay out the options of American Funds (with all their breakpoints), DFA (with all their slice & dice), Vanguard (indexes), and ETFs (cap gains efficiency). Instead it's mainly about holding customer's hands and reassuring them while growing your own business.

These days, there's a lot of handholding........

My comment on DFA is that you have to "pay to play" with them. They require attendance at a boot camp for a few grand and then you have to put in writing how much business you will do with them, etc. Seems too dictatorial these days.

So, you really think that all FAs should promote Vanguard? If the client wanted to be with Vanguard, they wouldn't be looking for answers from me, they would be calling VG's 800 number........;)

Clients work with advisors for three main reasons: 1)They don't want to do it themselves, 2)They don't want to learn how to do it themselves, or 3)They want someone to be accountable for their finances, i.e., someone they can blame if things go wrong. It's human nature.......

A while back you or Saluki mentioned the FA's typical customer-- an upper-middle-class exec who discovered "Holy crap, 95% of my portfolio is locked up in restricted company stock, company stock options, shares of company stock, and deferred compensation. I've spent all the rest of my paychecks on McMansions & SUVs and I might be unemployed later this year. Can you teach me how to save enough to start one of these new-fangled "IRAs" and maybe learn to spell "diversification"?"

Sounds like some of my clients. Most of my clients are millionaires, but more of the "millionaire next door" than the "McMansion" types.

You two probably do good work in your jobs and deservedly sleep well at night. But if you're tempted to defend your industry, then you oughta clean house first.

Well, I doubt that will happen soon. Lobbyists are strong in our industry. They has been discussions about eliminating 12B-1 fees for many years, yet the mutual fund industry is fighting it more than the advisors are.......
 
Not that touchy. I realize this is a DIY place and I am viewed as the scourge of mankind. However, IMHO that doesn't mean that just because you have a portfolio for yourself that anyone can be an FA. Many on here probably think that its easy, but with an 80% attrition rate in the first year I beg to differ.......:)
Here's my view...
If you need legal advice, you see a lawyer. You don't go to law school.
If you need medical advice, you see a doctor. You don't enroll in pre-med.
So, it follows that if you need financial advice...who ya gonna call?
Seriously, DIY can only go so far.
It is the smart person who recognizes their limits and seeks professional assistance, WHEN they need to.
It is the prudent person who educates themselves BEFORE they go for professional consultation.
Ok, throw the rotten tomatoes...I can take it. :greetings10:
 
Here's my view...
If you need legal advice, you see a lawyer. You don't go to law school.
If you need medical advice, you see a doctor. You don't enroll in pre-med.
So, it follows that if you need financial advice...who ya gonna call?
Seriously, DIY can only go so far.
It is the smart person who recognizes their limits and seeks professional assistance, WHEN they need to.
It is the prudent person who educates themselves BEFORE they go for professional consultation.
Ok, throw the rotten tomatoes...I can take it. :greetings10:

Hey, weren't you shilling for the lawyers on another thread?...:hide:
 
Here's my view...
If you need legal advice, you see a lawyer. You don't go to law school.
If you need medical advice, you see a doctor. You don't enroll in pre-med.
So, it follows that if you need financial advice...who ya gonna call?
Seriously, DIY can only go so far.
It is the smart person who recognizes their limits and seeks professional assistance, WHEN they need to.
It is the prudent person who educates themselves BEFORE they go for professional consultation.
Ok, throw the rotten tomatoes...I can take it. :greetings10:

If you see a lawyer, you know they have, at least, been to law school, passed the bar exam, and fulfilled licensing requirements.
If you see a doctor, you know they have, at least, been to medical school, interned, perhaps done a residency and fulfilled licensing requirements.

If you see an FA..?
 
Here's my view...
If you need legal advice, you see a lawyer. You don't go to law school.
If you need medical advice, you see a doctor. You don't enroll in pre-med.
So, it follows that if you need financial advice...who ya gonna call?
Seriously, DIY can only go so far.
It is the smart person who recognizes their limits and seeks professional assistance, WHEN they need to.
It is the prudent person who educates themselves BEFORE they go for professional consultation.
Ok, throw the rotten tomatoes...I can take it. :greetings10:

And in some cases, after that education, the person determines that they *are* capable of DIY. Sometimes not.

I don't think anyone on this board is claiming that seeking professional help in financial matters is automatically a "bad" thing to do. Some would rather pay for the service, and that's fine.

I think the problems most of us have is, our experience is that the vast majority of those FAs are not doing a very good job for their clients. Sure, they gotta make a buck, and that will cut into returns - that has to be accepted. But beyond that, it seems that most FAs are not really giving their clients much in the way of service. The financial decisions appear to be more based on generating fees.

There are exceptions of course, and the board members here appear to be in that group.

Further, if I *do* go to a pro, I should reasonably expect them to do a *better* job than I would do myself. Now we get to the revelation I sometimes have when doing my education - sometimes I find that after I've educated myself enough to know the difference between a good pro and a not-so-good pro, I know enough to DYI. That was my assessment in financial matters, in other cases I still call in the pros.

-ERD50
 
And in some cases, after that education, the person determines that they *are* capable of DIY. Sometimes not.
...
Further, if I *do* go to a pro, I should reasonably expect them to do a *better* job than I would do myself. Now we get to the revelation I sometimes have when doing my education - sometimes I find that after I've educated myself enough to know the difference between a good pro and a not-so-good pro, I know enough to DYI. That was my assessment in financial matters, in other cases I still call in the pros.

-ERD50

When i was wrenching for a living there were a very few people who had had their cars for some time and knew the idiosyncrasies and minutia of their particular year, make and model really well. Real pains in the neck, because they were attuned to the slightest variance in performance of their particular rides. They weren't up for the stuff deep inside, nor were they sharp around any other make or model. Hope would be that the FA is hep to the deep stuff and all the different financial vehicles.

Being human, there is no more reason to expect perfection - or or familiarity with your particular variables - from a FA than there is from a mechanic, appliance repairman, or even - gasp - doctor or lawyer.
 
If you see an FA..?

It depends on the FA. The powers that be that regulate advisors, as well as certification associations like the CFP Board, have failed to set requirements to be an FA. They have left it up to "self-regulation". So far, it hasn't worked well. Up until late last year, if you wanted to be a CSA (Certified Senior Advisor), you had to pay some money, take a couple hour class, and then take a not so hard test.

FINRA is trying to get it passed that the only meaningful certification for advisors that provide financial planning and advisory services is a CFP. I have no problem with that even though I am not one. At least it would standardize the industry, and drive some folks out who shouldn't be in it anyways.

The amount of EIAs sold would plummet dramatically if there was a requirement to have a securities license to sell them. The insurance companies are lobbying heavily to NOT have that happen. I don't see the argument at all because you DO have to have a securities license to sell VAs........:rolleyes:
 
Here's my view...
If you need legal advice, you see a lawyer. You don't go to law school.
If you need medical advice, you see a doctor. You don't enroll in pre-med.
So, it follows that if you need financial advice...who ya gonna call?
Seriously, DIY can only go so far.
It is the smart person who recognizes their limits and seeks professional assistance, WHEN they need to.
It is the prudent person who educates themselves BEFORE they go for professional consultation.
Ok, throw the rotten tomatoes...I can take it. :greetings10:

I think there are several important difference between doctors and financial advisers. First as has been discussed, doctors go through many years of training, testing etc. and are well regulated. Virtually anybody can call themselves a Financial adviser (even me) and the training varies from a couple of years for CFP, CFAs, CPAs to a week course for many brokers.

Second and I think just as important is that to large extent financial adviser are engaged in a zero sum game. If Joe's FA gets above average returns, than Jane's has to get below average returns. Or to be it another way if we could magically increase the number of doctors, nurse etc by 50% (while maintaining quality standards) the average health of the nation would increase. If we did the same thing for FAs the average returns for investors would decrease.

Warren Buffett in his wonderful folksy style explains this in his 2005 Annual Letter to shareholders.

How to Minimize Investment Returns
It’s been an easy matter for Berkshire and other owners of American equities to prosper over the
years. Between December 31, 1899 and December 31, 1999, to give a really long-term example, the Dow
rose from 66 to 11,497. (Guess what annual growth rate is required to produce this result; the surprising
answer is at the end of this section.) This huge rise came about for a simple reason: Over the century
American businesses did extraordinarily well and investors rode the wave of their prosperity. Businesses
continue to do well. But now shareholders, through a series of self-inflicted wounds, are in a major way
cutting the returns they will realize from their investments.
The explanation of how this is happening begins with a fundamental truth: With unimportant
exceptions, such as bankruptcies in which some of a company’s losses are borne by creditors, the most that
owners in aggregate can earn between now and Judgment Day is what their businesses in aggregate earn.
True, by buying and selling that is clever or lucky, investor A may take more than his share of the pie at the
expense of investor B. And, yes, all investors feel richer when stocks soar. But an owner can exit only by
having someone take his place. If one investor sells high, another must buy high. For owners as a whole,
there is simply no magic – no shower of money from outer space – that will enable them to extract wealth
from their companies beyond that created by the companies themselves.
Indeed, owners must earn less than their businesses earn because of “frictional” costs. And that’s
my point: These costs are now being incurred in amounts that will cause shareholders to earn far less than
they historically have.
To understand how this toll has ballooned, imagine for a moment that all American corporations
are, and always will be, owned by a single family. We’ll call them the Gotrocks. After paying taxes on
dividends, this family – generation after generation – becomes richer by the aggregate amount earned by its
companies. Today that amount is about $700 billion annually. Naturally, the family spends some of these
dollars. But the portion it saves steadily compounds for its benefit. In the Gotrocks household everyone
grows wealthier at the same pace, and all is harmonious.
But let’s now assume that a few fast-talking Helpers approach the family and persuade each of its
members to try to outsmart his relatives by buying certain of their holdings and selling them certain others.
The Helpers – for a fee, of course – obligingly agree to handle these transactions. The Gotrocks still own
all of corporate America; the trades just rearrange who owns what. So the family’s annual gain in wealth
diminishes, equaling the earnings of American business minus commissions paid. The more that family
members trade, the smaller their share of the pie and the larger the slice received by the Helpers. This fact
is not lost upon these broker-Helpers: Activity is their friend and, in a wide variety of ways, they urge it on.
After a while, most of the family members realize that they are not doing so well at this new “beatmy-
brother” game. Enter another set of Helpers. These newcomers explain to each member of the
Gotrocks clan that by himself he’ll never outsmart the rest of the family. The suggested cure: “Hire a
manager – yes, us – and get the job done professionally.” These manager-Helpers continue to use the
broker-Helpers to execute trades; the managers may even increase their activity so as to permit the brokers
to prosper still more. Overall, a bigger slice of the pie now goes to the two classes of Helpers.
The family’s disappointment grows. Each of its members is now employing professionals. Yet
overall, the group’s finances have taken a turn for the worse. The solution? More help, of course.
It arrives in the form of financial planners and institutional consultants, who weigh in to advise the
Gotrocks on selecting manager-Helpers. The befuddled family welcomes this assistance. By now its
members know they can pick neither the right stocks nor the right stock-pickers. Why, one might ask,
should they expect success in picking the right consultant? But this question does not occur to the
Gotrocks, and the consultant-Helpers certainly don’t suggest it to them.
18
The Gotrocks, now supporting three classes of expensive Helpers, find that their results get worse,
and they sink into despair. But just as hope seems lost, a fourth group – we’ll call them the hyper-Helpers
– appears. These friendly folk explain to the Gotrocks that their unsatisfactory results are occurring
because the existing Helpers – brokers, managers, consultants – are not sufficiently motivated and are
simply going through the motions. “What,” the new Helpers ask, “can you expect from such a bunch of
zombies?”
The new arrivals offer a breathtakingly simple solution: Pay more money. Brimming with selfconfidence,
the hyper-Helpers assert that huge contingent payments – in addition to stiff fixed fees – are
what each family member must fork over in order to really outmaneuver his relatives.
The more observant members of the family see that some of the hyper-Helpers are really just
manager-Helpers wearing new uniforms, bearing sewn-on sexy names like HEDGE FUND or PRIVATE
EQUITY. The new Helpers, however, assure the Gotrocks that this change of clothing is all-important,
bestowing on its wearers magical powers similar to those acquired by mild-mannered Clark Kent when he
changed into his Superman costume. Calmed by this explanation, the family decides to pay up.
And that’s where we are today: A record portion of the earnings that would go in their entirety to
owners – if they all just stayed in their rocking chairs – is now going to a swelling army of Helpers.
Particularly expensive is the recent pandemic of profit arrangements under which Helpers receive large
portions of the winnings when they are smart or lucky, and leave family members with all of the losses –
and large fixed fees to boot – when the Helpers are dumb or unlucky (or occasionally crooked).
A sufficient number of arrangements like this – heads, the Helper takes much of the winnings;
tails, the Gotrocks lose and pay dearly for the privilege of doing so – may make it more accurate to call the
family the Hadrocks. Today, in fact, the family’s frictional costs of all sorts may well amount to 20% of
the earnings of American business. In other words, the burden of paying Helpers may cause American
equity investors, overall, to earn only 80% or so of what they would earn if they just sat still and listened to
no one.
Long ago, Sir Isaac Newton gave us three laws of motion, which were the work of genius. But Sir
Isaac’s talents didn’t extend to investing: He lost a bundle in the South Sea Bubble, explaining later, “I can
calculate the movement of the stars, but not the madness of men.” If he had not been traumatized by this
loss, Sir Isaac might well have gone on to discover the Fourth Law of Motion: For investors as a whole,
returns decrease as motion increases.
 
Another is a lack of a standard 'code of ethics', at least here in Canukistan, that says you have a fiduciary duty to put your client first.

There is a code of ethics for registered investment advisors like me. However, there is no mandatory "code of ethics" that covers EVERYONE that sells financial products in the industry. The national governing bodies haven't seen it necessary to do so.

BTW, a CFP doesn't "guarantee" an FA is good. However, its a start.......
 
Isn't there a potential market niche for some enterprising company to fill? At present, customers have no easy way to figure out if a particular advisor will be "on their side" and competent. We've talked about certification and accreditation as possible fixes, but no organization has stepped up to the plate in a meaningful way. Laws and regulations are not being formulated to address the issue. Most people probably agree that the way the advisor is compensated plays a big role in determining the results produced, but consumers have to search and individually inquire about this. If the consumer knows enough to search out NAPFA, they can get a referral to several fee-only planners, but these are all independent operators, and NAPFA isn't training them or vouching for their competency. Garrett Planning Network is another way that a customer can find a planner who is fee-based and gets paid a flat hourly rate, but (again) services are provided by independent advisors so there appears to be no company standing behind the actual services performed.

Is there room in the marketplace for a company that provides hourly-rate based financial planning services? They don't sell investment products and receive no money from anyone but their clients. The advisors would be employees of that company. They would benefit from centrally-provided streamlined training materials (rather than having to find and pay for their own training), centrally-available research services, a company that would do the advertising and marketing. The customer benefits by having a big company stand behind the services provided--they certify that the planners are trained and that they are proficient. To set themselves apart from existing independent solo-advisors, the company could market the every financial plan they produce is checked by a second qualified planner.

I guess some company would be doing it if there were a sufficient market for services like this. Maybe many have tried and failed. As FinanceDude says, the present independent fee-based planners are having a tough time making it. Still, it would seem that the efficiencies of a real company (which could establish itself as the Vanguard or USAA of this industry) might make the difference. I'd be tempted to go to them.
 
samclem, wasn't Vanguard offering a "common sense" no-charge portfolio review for clients? I'd have to look back a the old posts, but this sounds along the lines of what you are talking about. Maybe the diff is they are not going out and soliciting *new* clients with this approach?

-ERD50
 
samclem, wasn't Vanguard offering a "common sense" no-charge portfolio review for clients? I'd have to look back a the old posts, but this sounds along the lines of what you are talking about. Maybe the diff is they are not going out and soliciting *new* clients with this approach?

-ERD50
Yes, they do offer a review like that, and it is free (it might be a bennie for Flagship status). It's a start, but it would be preferable to have an independent company with no stake in what I buy--will Vanguard really tell me that Fidelity Spartan funds are cheaper than theirs? Also, I would like to go a little deeper than a free Vanguard appraisal can go--I don't expect them to know about/provide assistance with tax optimization, etc. But, yes, it is a start.
 
samclem, wasn't Vanguard offering a "common sense" no-charge portfolio review for clients? I'd have to look back a the old posts, but this sounds along the lines of what you are talking about. Maybe the diff is they are not going out and soliciting *new* clients with this approach?

-ERD50

Problem is, since its sponsored by a fund company, (VG), you're not going to get an unbiased approach.

The business model for fee-based only planners is broken. They can't make it because the amount they can charge has plummeted. I know of at least 6 (7th is on life support) very experienced CFP's that are gone from the business. No income to be made........
 
Is there room in the marketplace for a company that provides hourly-rate based financial planning services? They don't sell investment products and receive no money from anyone but their clients. The advisors would be employees of that company. They would benefit from centrally-provided streamlined training materials (rather than having to find and pay for their own training), centrally-available research services, a company that would do the advertising and marketing. The customer benefits by having a big company stand behind the services provided--they certify that the planners are trained and that they are proficient. To set themselves apart from existing independent solo-advisors, the company could market the every financial plan they produce is checked by a second qualified planner.

Noone is going to do that. It's too expensive to implement, and all you are creating is a bunch of salaried folks (expenses) and the income you would take it would be nowhere near enough to pay them.........

The bigger problem is that EVERYONE wants a qualified FA but NOONE wants to pay for one.........:)
 
This sounds like a perfect opportunity for what I was talking about. If I was ready and qualified (I'm not yet) I, as a FIREd person, could set up shop as a fee-only advisor. I wouldn't be dependent on the salary, so slow times wouldn't wipe me out. I would be in the business mostly to help people with their financial needs, although any income would be OK too.

This sounds like a job for the old farts! People can't trust FAs because of conflicts of interest. People with no conflicts of interest can't make enough money to survive. So people with no conflicts of interest and no major financial needs, combined with a desire to help people, can step in and fill the gap. Here's our chance!
 
Problem is, since its sponsored by a fund company, (VG), you're not going to get an unbiased approach.

Agreed. It was an example of the kind of approach samclem was looking for, but it certainly can't be viewed as unbiased.

The business model for fee-based only planners is broken. They can't make it because the amount they can charge has plummeted. I know of at least 6 (7th is on life support) very experienced CFP's that are gone from the business. No income to be made........
Noone is going to do that. It's too expensive to implement, and all you are creating is a bunch of salaried folks (expenses) and the income you would take it would be nowhere near enough to pay them.........

The bigger problem is that EVERYONE wants a qualified FA but NOONE wants to pay for one.........:)

I hear you. I think what some of us are visualizing is, a kind of "rough cut" approach to FA, without a lot of hand-holding, but done on an almost assembly-line basis so that costs could be kept to a minimum. It makes sense that individual FAs don't have the economy of scale to do that, so they need to charge what they need to charge to make a living (or get out of the business, as you say many are doing). But maybe a large organization could provide a very good service at a very good price.

Really, if you have the client fill out the survey, provide their current status and get an indication of their risk tolerance, how many hours of effort would it really take to provide a cookie-cutter asset allocation?

Would it be "perfect"? - no. Would it be better than an uninformed investor might do? - probably. Should it cost a lot? - I don't think so.

Most of us would be more comfortable in tailor-fit custom clothes. But most of us get by just fine with off-the-rack clothes, and some of us don't have the skills to sew our own. So, an "off-the-rack" (not one-size-fits-all) asset allocation might be "good-enough" and represent a good value for many.

Again, this isn't knocking the good FAs who provide a valuable service and need to charge accordingly. It's just thinking out loud about an alternative for the masses.

-ERD50
 
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