Home Schooling

[HFWR]

Why you never sat and zoned out on a lava lamp eating Doritos? Memories..

That's not a memory. That's a flashback! O0

 

[Notmuchlonger]

The thing I really like about homeschooling is that (most of the time) the child learns how to learn, not just how to socialize with the rest of the collective and be fed the material for next week's test. They learn how to do for themselves, not just pester the teacher what questions they should study for.

OTOH I know a couple homeschool kids who would've been better off anywhere else. The best that could be said is that they're extremely motivated to strike out on their own, they're very creative, and they shrug off adversity. They know they have to make life work because there's no way they're goin' home again.

Our kid keeps coming home from (public) school getting brainwashed into impossible projects by hyperagressive glory-seeking teachers. "I want to spend spring break replanting Kaho'olawe. I'll have to give up my part-time job and quit taekwondo, I'll have to go to training every Friday afternoon and Saturday morning for the next five months, I'll have to swim off the outrigger canoe with my supplies in a trash bag on my head, we dig the holes with C-4, and they'll work us like dogs on leashes. But I'll be saving the 'aina and it'll look great on my transcript!"

Or "Our Russian foreign-exchange student seems to be having a really good time here. I want to be a foreign-exchange student for my first semester senior year, and then I'll apply for college during my second semester after I get back. It'll look great on my transcript!"

Or "I want to take AP U.S. History next year. It doesn't have anything to do with my goal to attend an engineering college, the teacher is called a "Dementor" by her students-- to her face-- and her class barely has a "C" average because she works them three hours a night and 10 hours a weekend. They're miserable & stressed out, they have no social lives, and they're failing their other classes, but I enjoy learning history and it'll look great on my transcript!" Took us six months to deprogram her from that one and we had to threaten the teacher to accompany us on a little visit with the principal.

And so on... because she's been institutionalized most of her life, it never occurs to our kid that she could wait until she's in college or until she's on a Navy deployment or until she's a civilian on her own and then just go do her own thing. No, she has to do it with the classmates in platoon formation after practicing holding hands & singing Kumbayah for a few months. Can't really hold her at fault-- she's just a product of her environment.

Whenever she kvetches about school a little too much, I offer to let her drop out and attend Dad's Homeschool. Cheers her right up. Or at least she stops complaining...


Dude, next time you see a lava lamp doing that, save some of those pharmaceuticals for us!

Yeah Maybe I should have received some home schooling for my run on sentence don't you think instead of eating Doritos and zoning out.

 

[Leonidas]

Our kid keeps coming home from (public) school getting brainwashed into impossible projects by hyperagressive glory-seeking teachers. "I want to spend spring break replanting Kaho'olawe. ... like dogs on leashes. But I'll be saving the 'aina and it'll look great on my transcript!"

I found Kaho'olawe okay, but Google just got silly with returns when I queried 'aina. Assyrian International News Agency? Aina the progressive metal supergroup (you may own their album, Aina, Days of Rising Doom)?

 

[Nords]

I found Kaho'olawe okay, but Google just got silly with returns when I queried 'aina.

Sorry, Hawaii jargon.

"Ka 'aina" is "the land". The state motto is "Ua mau ke ea o ka 'aina i ka pono" for "The life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness". So schoolkids get a lot of encouragement to "care for the 'aina".

 

[Texarkandy]

I can easily see both sides of this issue. In theory the idea of "perhaps the parents know better than the state about how to give a good education" is a good one.

But in practical terms, I have come face to face with some issues. Certainly I don't know the entire situation (I'm just making conversation here). I've seen:

1. Pretty much zero interaction with other kids. They are in the house all day. They seem a little starved for attention from outsiders.

2. There's no way she has time for any real schooling. These kids are all over the place. Conversation:

Kid: We're both ADD!
Me: You guys seem OK to me.
Kid: You should see us in the house!

3. They had an assignment of writing a recipe and making it for me. I'm not familiar with how well a fourth grader should spell, but I'm guessing "Put in the ovn for 5 sacins" indicates a problem.

California's low regulation approach to home schooling may be letting them down, and they might be behind the eight ball when they grow up.

Even considering your probably quite accurate observations that these kids might not be receiving much of an education in their home school -

I'm thinking that the converse of the idea of:

"perhaps the parents know better than the state about how to give a good education"

is

"perhaps the state knows better than the parents about how to give a good education"

I pick the former as the best default policy (barring demonstrable exceptional circumstances and only then on a case-by-case basis)

 

[enfp]

I was going to pull out quotes on which I wanted to comment, but there were too many in the end. I'll just give a few opinions instead. Please realize that there are many ways to homeschool. All of them are equally valid, and each family has the right to choose what works for them.

We homeschool, in fact we unschool. To many people that may look very lazy because it does mean that we get up when we want and do what we want all day long. Wow, can it be that it resembles ER? Fascinating! The kids have freedom from grade/test slavery and DH has freedom from wage slavery. In fact, voluntary simplicity led to a plan for ER and attachment parenting, then homeschooling, and finally this year, ER. It is all intertwined for us and very complementary. We love freedom around here. With a family comprised of INTJ/ENFP/INFP/INTJs, we value independence, uniqueness, and learning.

My children (8 and 5) learn because they are human, and unless the interest is beaten out of you (memorize, regurgitate, forget, anyone?) learning is what we do. It is fun. I want them to retain that love of learning. I also want them to own their knowledge. They learn what is important to them at the time, their time, and they retain it because it is of value to them. It's their knowledge, not mine or the state. Learning goes on all the time. All day long we talk, read, play, work, write, draw, sew, shop, cook, eat. A valuable education is in all of that.

How to gather information is an important skill, how to think critically about it is is even more important. I think that gets lost in the rush to make sure kids know x, y, z for a test. Also, we all do things at different times, in different ways and have different skills. In the adult world, that's ok and respected, even envied in the case of ER. In school, it's not. We believe children deserve to do things in their own way and own time, even if it means that spelling is not what a particular person thinks it should be. The fact that dd wants to sound out and spell on her own because she enjoys it and is getting something out of it is of far greater value to me than how she'd do on a spelling test.

I was just reading today that even professors at the Harvard School of Education recognize that the public school system is broken. I will not be bound to a system that is broken, that was never created with learning in mind. (See The Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto for information on the latter. The Underground History of American Education - John Taylor Gatto)

As for not getting out of the house, there are certainly quite a few introverts on this list who may fall in that category However, homeschooling has come a long way in the last 20 years. There are many, many groups where people get together for classes, parkdays, museum days, musical performances, etc. Recently our group held a Japan Fest day with costumes, games, food, origami, etc. We do not do classes anymore as my daughter is not interested in them. With two introverts, we get together at parkdays with friends, throw in an occasional field trip, and that's all they want or need. The truth is most homeschool families have too many choices of things to do as is the case in most of our society's fast paced culture. As proponents of simplicity we don't buy into that either.

Ok, that was more than .02. Sorry about that.

 

[youbet]

I can easily see both sides of this issue. In theory the idea of "perhaps the parents know better than the state about how to give a good education" is a good one.

But in practical terms, I have come face to face with some issues. Certainly I don't know the entire situation (I'm just making conversation here). I've seen:

1. Pretty much zero interaction with other kids. They are in the house all day. They seem a little starved for attention from outsiders.

2. There's no way she has time for any real schooling. These kids are all over the place. Conversation:

Kid: We're both ADD!
Me: You guys seem OK to me.
Kid: You should see us in the house!

3. They had an assignment of writing a recipe and making it for me. I'm not familiar with how well a fourth grader should spell, but I'm guessing "Put in the ovn for 5 sacins" indicates a problem.

California's low regulation approach to home schooling may be letting them down, and they might be behind the eight ball when they grow up.

TA,

You may be correct that in this case home schooling, with only mom there handling the burden alone, is not working out as well as public school might. OTOH, my DW (39 yrs experience teaching + MS ED) points out that millions of children are inadequately served by our public school systems and would probably benefit from home schooling provided by knowledgeable, dedicated parents with the time, motivation and resources to do so.

We're acquainted with three families engaged in home schooling and are impressed with the results they're achieving. I'm sure there are other home schooling families not doing as well, just as there are children dropping out of our public school systems or graduating unable to functionally read or do basic math.

This is another one of those subjects where attempting to generalize based on a handful of anecdotal examples is foolhardy.

 

[TromboneAl]

I was sure lucky that the public school system worked better when I was a kid. In fourth grade my school gave me free trombone lessons, had an art teacher, a music teacher, and a PE program. I learned the spelling, grammar, and math that enabled me to get great jobs and retire early.

 

[HFWR]

C'mon, T-Al, public schools are a commie plot to teach kids about evolution and sex...

 

[Texarkandy]

C'mon, T-Al, public schools are a commie plot to teach kids about evolution and sex...

They weren't then - they were teaching us to duck & cover for the day the commie's fired the missiles.

 

[HFWR]

They weren't then - they were teaching us to duck & cover for the day the commie's fired the missiles.

You mean those weren't "tornado drills"...

 

[Sarah in SC]

ENFP represents what my experiences with homeschooling families have been like: dedicated, involved and very focused on their children's ability to reason and learn to learn. In our state, the public schools, by and large, really suck. If you can't afford private school, parents (especially fairly religious folk that have lots of kids) often homeschool instead.

I agree that there are some kids that would be doing a lot better in a school setting (like the idea that boys learn and girls cook) but I've never once come across a homeschooling family that gave me any sort of willies. I conducted school tours for about 10 years of our family farm, and I LOVED the (count em 5) homeschooling associations in the Charleston area. These kids were always the best behaved (because Mom or Dad or both were right there with them) and asked articulate and well-reasoned questions that showed they were paying attention. I literally gave tours to thousands of children and the homeschoolers were always my favorites.

I'd personally go crazy at the idea of staying with kids all day, but then again, that's why I didn't have any in the first place.

 

[HFWR]

Lots of anecdotal evidence one way or the other. It's likely that motivated parents who homeschool will produce a good outcome. But this isn't entirely unlike school districts full of highly motivated parents.

 

[Nords]

I learned the spelling, grammar, and math that enabled me to get great jobs and retire early.

I'm not sure that there's any correlation among those phenomena... and I don't know how we'd study it, either.

 

[youbet]

I was sure lucky that the public school system worked better when I was a kid. In fourth grade my school gave me free trombone lessons, had an art teacher, a music teacher, and a PE program. I learned the spelling, grammar, and math that enabled me to get great jobs and retire early.

Yeah.....ya were! I attended Chicago Public Schools from K - 12. To give you an idea of what things were like, the high school I attended is where Jim Jacobs, co-writer of "Grease" went, although a few years before me. "Book learnin' " was not very high on our priority list!

I didn't get a chance to learn to play the Trombone in public school. However, I did learn how to roll up a pack of Lucky Strikes in my T shirt sleeve. Many potential employers found that very impressive!

I know my mom would have never taught me that trick, so I really benefited from not being home schooled.

 

[enfp]

If you can't afford private school, parents (especially fairly religious folk that have lots of kids) often homeschool instead. "

''I'd personally go crazy at the idea of staying with kids all day, but then again, that's why I didn't have any in the first place.

While the homeschooling movement had its' roots in the religious community, these days it appears that most people are doing it because of the differing educational values or avoiding certain influences reasons. In atlanta there are many secular groups. And in fact, influences are everywhere. My kids' favorite friends are children of atheists and agnostics (my homeschooling friends), not exactly what I had envisioned. But I'm not attending the catholic homeschooling group because it's too far to drive (BIG deal in atlanta). We belong to a secular group and that's what we get and it's ok. (except they've all had the sex talk with their children. I'm hoping to put that off for a while longer. Wish me luck )

Many people we know who homeschool can afford private schools. Most school systems are the same whether public or private. Grades may be better, but the downsides still exist. I believe the system is dysfunctional and outdated. But if we had wanted private school DH would have kept working.


I never said I wasn't crazy. That's why ER was so important to me. I needed DH home. The whole SAHM thing was pretty rough on me. It is great having 2 parents dealing with everything.

 

[TromboneAl]

UPDATE: The mom and the homeschooled kids all disappeared in the night, leaving tons of stuff the house required major cleanup.

 

[Dreamer]

Do you know why she left in the middle of the night? I was just curious. Was she wanted by the law or was she just skipping out on rent that was owed? I know that it could be for various other reasons, but those are the first two that popped into my mind. I could be totally off base, but I feel sorry for the kids.

 

[W2R]

My daughter had a friend (when she was a little girl, back in the 1980's) whose family moved in the middle of the night like that. It turned out that they owed hundreds of thousands of dollars to everyone conceivable. I don't really see how slinking away would help that, unless perhaps they owed quite a bit to individuals and/or didn't want their car repossessed.

You would never have known it from appearances! Talk about skeletons in the closet...

 

[TromboneAl]

No, I don't know anything more. I talked to the guy who was cleaning out the house.

 

[FUEGO]

Maybe your neighbor's "ceremony to eliminate the curse" was unsuccessful so she was just cutting her losses. I'm sure she explained the problem to her landlord, who I can only assume was unsympathetic to her desire to live in a lava rock curse-free dwelling. Isn't that one of the basic human rights we all deserve?

It's constructive eviction if you ask me, and I think she just may have a cause of action in court against her landlord!

 

[OAG]

I can easily see both sides of this issue. In theory the idea of "perhaps the parents know better than the state about how to give a good education" is a good one.

But in practical terms, I have come face to face with some issues. Certainly I don't know the entire situation (I'm just making conversation here). I've seen:

1. Pretty much zero interaction with other kids. They are in the house all day. They seem a little starved for attention from outsiders.

2. There's no way she has time for any real schooling. These kids are all over the place. Conversation:

Kid: We're both ADD!
Me: You guys seem OK to me.
Kid: You should see us in the house!

3. They had an assignment of writing a recipe and making it for me. I'm not familiar with how well a fourth grader should spell, but I'm guessing "Put in the ovn for 5 sacins" indicates a problem.

California's low regulation approach to home schooling may be letting them down, and they might be behind the eight ball when they grow up.

My kids went to PS all their 1-12 school years (none went to KG); however I moved them so often and so fast they never had much of a chance to "interact" or form a "group" except for the youngest. By the time they got to HS I decided (maybe stupidly) to try to keep them all in the same HS, which I did. That in 3 cases was fine but in the youngest one's case I almost lost him due to the "school system" - the "track team" and some nut (later arrested on molestation charges) for a teacher that told him and the others they did not have to do what society (or their parents) wanted or them to do. Took several discussions with this teacher and the principal to get him off of the sociology kick and back to teaching the "track" he was hired to do. That was the only kid that "would not go to college" out of HS - so after a short discussion we (he and I) decided he should go into the Army and off to "see the World" and to "find himself". Worked out fine; he did his 4 years got out as a Sergeant, got married, went off to college (Accounting Major), and is a CPA today. But, there was a short (seemed like a long one) period I was not sure he was not going to shoot me and he was not sure I was not going to shoot him (literally).

I never had the ability or the inclination to "home school" my kids but I would never fault a parent(s) that does it - and I salute TEXAS for not forgetting what FREEDOM, at least in this area, really is.

 

[bright eyed]

That is strange T-Al, one of the draw backs of homeschooled kids is that they aren't in the system and abuse/neglect can be going on and nobody would know (not saying the pub schools are perfect at catching that either, but hey, it's part of a broader safety net).

As for their grammar - that's about on par w/ what my 1st grader spells (and her version might be better than that)...so yes, I'd say that's pretty behind.

Anyhow, of course there are amazing public schools and awful ones and I think the same goes for homeschooling experiences. For whatever it's worth, a lot of the people I know around here doing it do not seem particularly qualified. I think teaching is a highly trained skill and value my daughters' well trained teachers. Her current teacher has her masters in early literacy and I see how i contributes to my daughters' development. I'm well educated compared to the general public but would never feel I could give my kids the education they need in all the various subjects without extensive training...

Same goes for private schools. They are not all universally better either.

 

[Nords]

UPDATE: The mom and the homeschooled kids all disappeared in the night, leaving tons of stuff the house required major cleanup.

Wow, she's really on the homeschooling ball. I was at least 25 years old before I learned to do that...

 

[Texarkandy]

That is strange T-Al, one of the draw backs of homeschooled kids is that they aren't in the system and abuse/neglect can be going on and nobody would know (not saying the pub schools are perfect at catching that either, but hey, it's part of a broader safety net).
....

Here's a sad & sickening local case we have going on around here right now involving some homeschoolers (however I think it's really more about these parents religious beliefs & general nuttiness than "homeschooling" per se)

House of horrors

But yes, this is something that likely would have been caught by the school before it went too far. On the other hand, catching child abuse/neglect is an "incidental" function of the school - not the reason schools exist.

I'm not sure, however what this case says about our adoption laws/procedures. But then, in many places (esp. E. Texas) if one presents themself as a "devout christian" they are presumed by many (incl CPS workers & judges) to be "OK" to adopt without much further inquiry.

Note: not mentioned in this article, but the "dad" was also arrested soon after for helping "mom" attempt to clean up the crime scene & try to pretend to authorities it was an accident.