How do you charge an electric car in rural area

[Ready]

Ready, I was driving 9200 miles a year b4 covid in my leased ICE vehicle at $500+/mo. I'm down to around 2500-3000 m/yr rate. Some uses have been permanently eliminated (~2K ) & I doubt the others will ever get back to where they were.

Lease is up end of Feb. We're thinking we may go down to one vehicle but know that WILL create some level of conflict. Not sure what we'll do, but spending on another $45K+ car is not an option (Affordability ain't the issue.). Looking at $25-35K & want the latest safety features as I age & age. I also want to sit up a bit as low vehicles & my back as well as my long torso are not very compatible. Net of that, EV's of today do not look like an option.

I would agree. I would have a hard time spending even $25K on a vehicle that I only plan to drive 3,000 miles per year as the cost per mile is extraordinarily high due to the high fixed costs of ownership.

 

[Rich]

Funny how things change in 15 months since the thread was open. I live in a rural area and bought a Tesla Model Y in the summer. Nearest supercharger is 90 miles away, why do I care? I charge at home. ....

Similar situation here. We own two EVs (Chevy Bolt and Tesla Model Y). We charge at home, unless on a road trip. We drove our Bolt (had to reposition the car) from Cape Cod to south of Tucson back in October, 2,740 miles. In so doing we came to appreciate the robust EV charging infrastructure put in place by Tesla!

When we drive back to the Cape this Spring our first charging stop will be in Deming NM, over 200 miles from our home. Not a problem in a Tesla.

Just published a book all about EVs, Electric Vehicles, What About Them?!?:

https://www.amazon.com/Electric-Veh...tric+vehicles+rosenthal&qid=1609089553&sr=8-2

The first chapter speaks to the various disruptive technologies coming our way, and how the electric vehicle is just one manifestation of some major changes coming to our society.

Rich

 

[Rich]

How does the maintenance on an EV compare to that of an ICE? MPG is only one aspect of cost per mile. I mean you have an oil/ filter change every 3-5000 miles. Belts, plugs, air filters, transmission service, coolant flushes, etc. Does an EV have equivalents? You would think tires, brakes, etc would be a wash.

My Chevy Bolt's first major maintenance is scheduled for 150,000 miles (flush out and change the traction battery cooling/heating fluid). Recommends a change of brake fluid as well.

There is very little "maintenance" which needs to be done to an EV. Jay Leno, in a recent interview stated he bought a Tesla model S in 2015. It's never had any maintenance done to it. None has been needed.

Of course you need to replace tires as necessary, as well as windshield wiper blades and windshield fluid. Otherwise, noting else need be done. Indeed, with regenerative braking (one pedal driving) brakes ought to last for an indefinite period of time.

Rich

 

[Rich]

Tesla's don't have as many parts to go bad but cost a lot to replace when needed. Insurance is expensive compared to ICE cars. ...

For reasons I don't understand our Tesla Model Y is $100 less per year than our 2019 Chevy Bolt EV (Tucson AZ area). Identical coverage. Not a clue why that is.

Rich

 

[Rich]

Fast charging EVs on the road is improving at a rapid rate. Below is an already out of date display of fast chargers for non-Tesla vehicles.

Tesla "Superchargers" on the East Coast.

 

[RAE]

I have not owned an electric vehicle yet, so here is a question for those that have: how long does it take to fully charge the battery at a charging station? I can put gas in my car in about 5 minutes or less. When we are on a long trip, with a destination in mind at the end of the day, the last thing I want to do is spend extra time during the trip, waiting for my vehicle to be charged. Spending a long 9-10 hour day in a vehicle is not much fun for me to begin with, so I have no desire to spend extra time at a charging station during the trip.

 

[Ready]

I have not owned an electric vehicle yet, so here is a question for those that have: how long does it take to fully charge the battery at a charging station? I can put gas in my car in about 5 minutes or less. When we are on a long trip, with a destination in mind at the end of the day, the last thing I want to do is spend extra time during the trip, waiting for my vehicle to be charged. Spending a long 9-10 hour day in a vehicle is not much fun for me to begin with, so I have no desire to spend extra time at a charging station during the trip.

It’s not efficient to fully charge a battery at a supercharger. You typically drive the battery down to about 20% and then recharge to about 80% for maximum efficiency. The rate it charges will slow down as the battery gets close to being fully charged.

To charge from 20-80% at a V2 supercharger is about 20-25 minutes. At a V3 supercharger (slowly rolling out now) it’s more like 10 minutes.

But keep in mind that for day to day driving you will never use a supercharger. You just plug in at night and have a fresh charge each morning. So when you calculate the number of minutes you will sit at a supercharger on long trips, don’t forget to subtract the number of hours you will no longer spend going to gas stations for your day to day driving. In the end you will spend far less time “refilling” an EV than an ICE vehicle.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

To gain that same 90 miles of range for my 22 mpg ICE vehicle, 4 gallons, it takes < 2 minutes.

You know how you charge your phone at your house? Just plugging it in and disconnecting it when you wish?

That's how EV owners do it. They charge at home, usually while they are sleeping.

No trips to the gas station. No spending minutes on anything.

But you sound like you like your ICE car, so you shouldn't change anything.

 

[Sunset]

..... We're thinking we may go down to one vehicle but know that WILL create some level of conflict. Not sure what we'll do, but spending on another $45K+ car is not an option (Affordability ain't the issue.). ....

Same thoughts here, due to the low amount of driving we do, we only need 1 car.

It would be cheaper, and less effort for us to simply call a cab/Uber for those times we couldn't share the one vehicle.
Even if I drove out of State by myself, renting another car for a couple of weeks would be cheaper.

Right now I have to charge the battery and drive the 2nd car on purpose every week.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

Same thoughts here, due to the low amount of driving we do, we only need 1 car.

It would be cheaper, and less effort for us to simply call a cab/Uber for those times we couldn't share the one vehicle.
Even if I drove out of State by myself, renting another car for a couple of weeks would be cheaper.

Right now I have to charge the battery and drive the 2nd car on purpose every week.

I'm a big fan of Uber in the right situation. Saves a car purchase, maintenance, insurance, fuel....

It's perfect for the low volume user.

 

[braumeister]

The one thing I never hear mentioned is the fact that owning an EV assumes you have a garage (or at least a driveway adjacent to your house) where you can plug it in at night. Those who live in apartments where they must park out on the street represent an enormous segment of the driving population who are ignored. Until they can be accommodated, EVs will continue to be a niche market IMHO. Maybe someday when battery technology is enormously improved it will be practical (super fast charging) but that day isn't here yet.

 

[SamCro]

This is a big reason why EV cars have not taken over the world. Once people figure out how inconvenient they are to own (repairs are a PITA, refueling takes time, road trips have to be carefully planned) they generally pass. Tesla will have to figure this out soon to support their stock valuation.

 

[RunningBum]

This is a big reason why EV cars have not taken over the world. Once people figure out how inconvenient they are to own (repairs are a PITA, refueling takes time, road trips have to be carefully planned) they generally pass. Tesla will have to figure this out soon to support their stock valuation.

Or they'll hit a critical mass where repair places are more common, as are charging stations, and technology improves so that batteries last even longer and are quicker to charge.

Those of us who don't have one already know that either those shortcomings or the price keep us from owning. I wouldn't be surprised if these are overcome for me in my driving lifetime.

 

[Ready]

The one thing I never hear mentioned is the fact that owning an EV assumes you have a garage (or at least a driveway adjacent to your house) where you can plug it in at night. Those who live in apartments where they must park out on the street represent an enormous segment of the driving population who are ignored. Until they can be accommodated, EVs will continue to be a niche market IMHO. Maybe someday when battery technology is enormously improved it will be practical (super fast charging) but that day isn't here yet.

According to https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicle...cent-all-housing-units-have-garage-or-carport, 63% of all households have a garage or carport. I would not refer to 63% of the population as a “niche” market.

 

[MichaelB]

The one thing I never hear mentioned is the fact that owning an EV assumes you have a garage (or at least a driveway adjacent to your house) where you can plug it in at night. Those who live in apartments where they must park out on the street represent an enormous segment of the driving population who are ignored. Until they can be accommodated, EVs will continue to be a niche market IMHO. Maybe someday when battery technology is enormously improved it will be practical (super fast charging) but that day isn't here yet.

I agree with this. DW and I were just talking about it. Couldn’t use an electric car to visit DD#2 because she lives in an apartment, and while a round trip is in the range of the battery, it would leave little room for error or delay.

 

[explanade]

My lease is coming due next summer and I haven't been able to take all the road trips I've thought about.

Still, I'm planning to look at buying an electric car once I've completed the lease.

It will still be sketchy for me to take long road trips with it though.

I figure I can rent a car if I really want to take road trips.

This columnist talks about taking a road trip from San Francisco to Truckee:

However, this second leg would prove to be the most challenging, with the bulk of the 7,000-mile climb between me and my hotel for the evening. It was a nail-biter, but I managed to make it. Unfortunately, the hotel only had Tesla-compatible chargers, so I hopped back in the I-Pace and headed into town, arriving at my second DC fast charger of the day with 15 miles (only 7%) left in the pack. At 122 miles driven, that's a full 24 miles short of where I expected to be thanks to the extreme climb. Once again, I plugged in and, 53 minutes later, was greeted with an 84% charge.

After a day playing in the dirt with the TRX, I hopped back into the I-Pace for the journey home. That meant I got to go back down the mountain, arriving at my first charging station after 124 miles with a 42% charge -- 41 miles better than the estimated range. Another plug-in and the I-Pace was at 95% and 218 miles of range. Now on comparatively flat land and with plenty of range to play with, I was less careful with the accelerator for the last 89 miles home. I played with the various drive modes, tested the accelerator and braking and finally arrived with a 48% charge with 105 miles of displayed range remaining.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/reviews/2020-jaguar-i-pace-review/

So the Tahoe/Truckee area is a popular destination from the Bay Area, about 200 miles each way, gets cold in the mountains, which should also affect range.

But he doesn't say when he did this trip and even now, it would get around 60 degrees during the day in Sacramento.

So maybe in the 40s when he reached the highest elevation in his trip.

Interesting that his hotel had a Tesla charger but he was able to go to a charging station for the Jaguar in Truckee.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

The one thing I never hear mentioned is the fact that owning an EV assumes you have a garage (or at least a driveway adjacent to your house) where you can plug it in at night. Those who live in apartments where they must park out on the street represent an enormous segment of the driving population who are ignored. Until they can be accommodated, EVs will continue to be a niche market IMHO. Maybe someday when battery technology is enormously improved it will be practical (super fast charging) but that day isn't here yet.

Niche market...I guess it depends on one's definition of niche. EV's are 15% of vehicle purchases in Europe (collectively) and also 15% in China. USA will take awhile to get to those numbers.

One's residence is where you usually charge. I know people who rent who have EV's. Where I live there's plenty of places to charge. On your way to dinner you park, plug in, dine (nowadays its to-go food!), and return and drive off. I do it every week. Obviously this is the big city, I know I have options medium and small cities don't have. But just speaking for the millions that reside in SF and LA, there's charging locations aplenty.

If I lived elsewhere I'd have to see what my options are.

 

[explanade]

There are some apt buildings around here (Bay Area) with some charging stations outside.

I guess maybe only a few residents have EVs.

If all of them had EVs, then the apt. landlords might have to make changes.

In this case, they're all paid chargers, since they're in common areas and not tied to a particular unit's electricity meter.

 

[MichaelB]

According to the US Census Bureau there are 139.7M housing units in the US, of which 82.4m are single family homes. The other 55M are multi family.

Carports usually don’t usually have electric power. Some garages are used for other than parking an auto. IMO it’s safe to assume about half of all people in the US don’t have all night on premise access to electricity.

This clearly is a limitation for the EV auto market. It’s not a showstopper but widespread EV ownership requires easy and convenient access to charging, and that doesn’t look simple for half the population.

 

[Zathras]

This is a big reason why EV cars have not taken over the world. Once people figure out how inconvenient they are to own (repairs are a PITA, refueling takes time, road trips have to be carefully planned) they generally pass. Tesla will have to figure this out soon to support their stock valuation.

No, the reason is production capacity combined with the large companies not wanting the change.
Most PHEV & BEV owners I have spoken to are never going back. For many, the EV is far more convenient to own than a gas powered car.

 

[REWahoo]

Mods, maybe these Car Wars threads should be given series titles similar to the Star Wars movies. This one could be "Car Wars - the Grid Strikes Back".

 

[RAE]

But keep in mind that for day to day driving you will never use a supercharger. You just plug in at night and have a fresh charge each morning. So when you calculate the number of minutes you will sit at a supercharger on long trips, don’t forget to subtract the number of hours you will no longer spend going to gas stations for your day to day driving. In the end you will spend far less time “refilling” an EV than an ICE vehicle.

Yes, I understand that. But my day-to-day driving trips are usually 30 minutes or less (go to town and back, for example), and I really don't mind adding another 5 minutes (once every couple weeks or so) to a short trip like that, to get gas. On the other hand, when I am on a long road trip, and driving 9+ hours per day, I really do not want to be spending any extra time getting fuel, because the trip is long enough already, and I just want to get to my destination for the night, get some dinner, and relax. Maybe I'm odd, but that's the way I look at it. I do enough of these longer trips each year that an EV does not make sense for me, at least not yet.

 

[Scubamax]

Well put. The way I look at it is right now I can hop in my car for a trip to visit family or friends (let's pretend no pandemic), and I can start driving and not even THINK about where I want to fill up on gas as over the course of say 7 hours of time behind the wheel there will be HUNDREDS of choices say between Northern VA and NY/NJ for fuel, and no planning is required for this process.

I like that way of life, and while I would love the concept of an electric vehicle, until the reality becomes a lot closer to the convenience of ICE refueling (which over time it probably will), I don't see the attraction for me. For others it might be the best thing since sliced bread and that is great for them. I respect their desire to plan which charger station to stop at make sure it is compatible with theirs etc.

 

[braumeister]

when I am on a long road trip, and driving 9+ hours per day, I really do not want to be spending any extra time getting fuel, because the trip is long enough already

My view is exactly the same as yours. I consider a normal day's drive on a road trip to be 500-600 miles, so if an EV had a battery range of 700-750 miles I would definitely consider it. We're not there yet.

But the EV super boosters here don't seem willing to acknowledge this as a reasonable concern, so I'm afraid we'll remain unreconciled for the foreseeable future. They will certainly have their day; I'm just not as sanguine as they are that the day will come soon.

 

[CRLLS]

According to https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicle...cent-all-housing-units-have-garage-or-carport, 63% of all households have a garage or carport. I would not refer to 63% of the population as a “niche” market.

While I am in that 63%, my cars currently do not reside in the garage. Haven't for years. Yeah, I'm one of "those" neighbors. The garage space is reserved for my "workshop" use.