How ER Dream Changed Your Attitude Towards W*rk

[FreqFlyer]

This thread reminds me of my most recent performance review. My boss had only great things to say about the past year but he hinted that another reorg might occur that will reduce the number of promotional opportunities for me.He said that I've strategically built my resume so that I could go and do anything but he didn't want me to get discouraged and leave.

Now I'm not really interested in moving up any more. Maybe my attitude will change but I don't see the benefits outweighing the added stress and hours. Little does he know I'm counting down my FIRE date which is ~6 years. Knowing that the end is in sight definitely makes me more relaxed. I probably will continue working after FIRE (44 YO) but at that point it will be my CHOICE.

I told my boss I'm not dying to be promoted to director and I'm happy where I am at the moment. My FIRE date is my little secret

 

[landover]

On the other hand, I am probably a little too laid back. I am not keen on getting the latest office gossip and feel even OK with not being in the "inner circle." I wonder if my lack of ambition is going to cost me promotions and raises. Since promotions and bonuses are pretty limited in my company, I don't feel like they would greatly impact my FIRE date. But inside, I feel that 31 is a bit early to adopt the "I don't care" attitude.

I know that my significant lack of ambition is uncommon, at least among my coworkers. Does anyone else feel this way?

I also feel this way but I try to show my enthusiasm at least even though I don't care about work environment. I think I need to play the game till FI. There is one pitfall of this strategy that I may get extra responsibility which I don't want. When I am aiming for RE path,expenses are mostly constant, any extra money will reduce time to reach FI goal. Once I am FI then I guess this behavior is OK.

 

[Milton]

I am less stressed about how my actions impact a future career. I still care about career advancement, but it's not that I have to deal with it for the few decades. I guess it's good in that I worry less about what my boss thinks of me and how my performance compares with others, and my work anxiety has been greatly reduced. I am also less worried about the future of my company despite the economic crisis.... Does anyone else feel this way?

Being FI has made it much easier for me to handle the challenges and petty annoyances of w*rk. The worst that can happen is that I'll be fired, which while unwelcome would hardly be the end of the world.

As I got closer to FIRE I lost some motivation at w_rk and, if anything, worked less hard. But my budgeting and money mgmt really intensified.

Me too.

This reminds me of what I've always thought of as the FIRE paradox: people who thirst for FIRE detest the corporate games that must be played to enable FIRE. People who can play the corporate games don't have a thirst to FIRE.

The result is that FIRE is very rare, and that's sad.

I don't think it's sad. While there are no doubt a few innocents who simply experience bad luck, FIRE is generally available to anyone who sincerely wants it.

As you say, those who enjoy corporate games typically don't want FIRE. Some other people may welcome FIRE but are too lazy to take the necessary steps, or are unwilling to defer gratification; that is essentially a matter of choice.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I can't stand office politics, particularly when my boss doesn't have my back. This has changed my attitude towards work from somewhat interesting and challenging to simmering anger towards him. Not a healthy attitude to have.

It's amazing how having a spineless boss changes your outlook on a job. You go from caring about doing great work to doing what you're told - even though it's contrary to how you see your job, and perhaps how you see yourself. Sometimes this can be a useful wake up call to acknowledge poor interpersonal skills, while other times it's simply a signal that your contributions simply aren't being valued anymore (if they ever truly were).

Sorry to be maudlin, but it's annoying to put a significant amount of work into your job, only to have your boss Monday Morning Quarterback your moves with an eye towards keeping some self-important executive happy. My response? If my boss (or the executive) wanted something done a particular way, then he should have made it clear before I did it - not after in an effort to smooth out ruffled feathers. A truly supportive boss would actually ask me why I did something, and if I had a good reason, explain that in the future he would like it done differently. He might even take responsibility for not making himself clear at the outset and tell the executive in question just that. Unfortunately, it's easier to avoid blame by passing it along to your employees.

 

[heyduke]

As I get closer to FIRE I have noticed something i never thought would occur in me... I have always been a very loyal employee putting the business first and my needs a close second with a very strict w$rk ethic ... I am a "tell it like I see kind of guy" which isn't great for advancement but at least I ended up in jobs I liked since I have never been a suck up of any sort... this too may have cost me money over the years... but what has really changed since I reached the FI part of my life is what I call the mental empowerment of knowing what "the FIRE date" is in your mind... knowing the date empowered me at w$rkto be even more "tell it like it is" and to further explain to my superiors that I was doing so with no agenda now that I am retiring... amazing how this little bit of knowledge in the w$rkplace changes so many co-w$rker attitudes towards you... the only negative is my sliding w$rk ethic due to my reduced motivation at w$rk which has resulted in more slacking in my wo$kday... it has been hard to let my w$rk ethic slide but it has equally satisfying knowing that my day is coming soon...

 

[Milton]

Sorry to be maudlin, but it's annoying to put a significant amount of work into your job ...

And you can stop right there!

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

As I get closer to FIRE I have noticed something i never thought would occur in me... I have always been a very loyal employee putting the business first and my needs a close second with a very strict w$rk ethic ... I am a "tell it like I see kind of guy" which isn't great for advancement but at least I ended up in jobs I liked since I have never been a suck up of any sort... this too may have cost me money over the years... but what has really changed since I reached the FI part of my life is what I call the mental empowerment of knowing what "the FIRE date" is in your mind... knowing the date empowered me at w$rkto be even more "tell it like it is" and to further explain to my superiors that I was doing so with no agenda now that I am retiring... amazing how this little bit of knowledge in the w$rkplace changes so many co-w$rker attitudes towards you... the only negative is my sliding w$rk ethic due to my reduced motivation at w$rk which has resulted in more slacking in my wo$kday... it has been hard to let my w$rk ethic slide but it has equally satisfying knowing that my day is coming soon...

In 99% of workplaces, the only people who can "tell it like it is" are: (1) bosses who are pretty unassailable, or (2) people on the verge of (normal) retirement. FI introduces a third category, namely, someone who doesn't need the job and the income it provides. Because this type of person is rare, bosses and co-workers alike don't know how to react. Bosses are used to having the upper hand by virtue of their ability to fire someone. People who aren't FI are afraid of being fired. Co-workers think they can dump their work or get away with inappropriate behavior until they find out you can quit whenever you like. Unfortunately, such knowledge often engenders jealousy and backstabbing/blame.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I don't think it's sad. While there are no doubt a few innocents who simply experience bad luck, FIRE is generally available to anyone who sincerely wants it.

As you say, those who enjoy corporate games typically don't want FIRE. Some other people may welcome FIRE but are too lazy to take the necessary steps, or are unwilling to defer gratification; that is essentially a matter of choice.

I agree. You may not advance higher or garner the huge raises/bonuses of those who enjoy corporate games, but you can still retire 10-20 years earlier than your peers if you keep your eye on the ball. Discipline is the essence of FIRE.

 

[dessert]

As I get closer to FIRE I have noticed something i never thought would occur in me... I have always been a very loyal employee putting the business first and my needs a close second with a very strict w$rk ethic ... I am a "tell it like I see kind of guy" which isn't great for advancement but at least I ended up in jobs I liked since I have never been a suck up of any sort... this too may have cost me money over the years... but what has really changed since I reached the FI part of my life is what I call the mental empowerment of knowing what "the FIRE date" is in your mind... knowing the date empowered me at w$rkto be even more "tell it like it is" and to further explain to my superiors that I was doing so with no agenda now that I am retiring... amazing how this little bit of knowledge in the w$rkplace changes so many co-w$rker attitudes towards you... the only negative is my sliding w$rk ethic due to my reduced motivation at w$rk which has resulted in more slacking in my wo$kday... it has been hard to let my w$rk ethic slide but it has equally satisfying knowing that my day is coming soon...

Heyduke, you have just about the same amount of time till RE as I do and your post above closely mirrors my thoughts about where I am too.
For me, I am having some days where I just can't get motivated. Luckily I am not where "the rubber meets the road" so I can get away with this. I don't really like slacking if that's what we call it, but I guess I am doing more and more of it lately. I find myself "socializing" more now instead of nose to the grindstone like the past 32 years. If I take the time to discuss current affairs or other non-work related subjects for an hour I don't feel that guilty about it. In years past, that never happened because I just didn't have the time and I was really motivated. I am less than a year from RE and I look at this last year as a time to enjoy the people I am with and to relish the thought of doing everything for the last time in my career. I have just enough responsibility to keep me as busy as I want to be and if I put something off until the next day no one will be the wiser.
It is just a great position to be in and I am enjoying it.

 

[Meadbh]

I'm not so young as some of you. I used to be fiercely ambitious to advance in my career. These days, as I approach FIRE, I am much more aware of all the things I like about my present job and I have lost all ambition to "get to the top" for the sake of my ego. If I change jobs now it will be for financial benefits or quality of life.

Here's an article from today's G&M which reinforces the forum's mantra of LBYM and financial discipline as a means to personal fulfilment:
Be smart about money – but not owned by it - The Globe and Mail

 

[Fireup2020]

FIRE goals have definitely made me think and act a little differently. Being "vested" in two pension systems has created a strange animal! I just have to put in 10 more years of my w*rking adult life to reap what I have sown. In my Navy career, I am a brand spankin' new "officer" - with 20+ years of enlisted experience - what a great place to be! My next two promotions are automatic, so my actions are not about my getting ahead - but what is the way to get my sailors taken care of? So far, this seems to have a very positive effect (I have a unit of 44 people reporting to me). I feel like I am on the downhill end of my careers, so work hard to pass on the knowledge I have attained over the years - and I do enjoy the luxury of "telling it like it is." I also was approached about heading back to active duty by a few recruiting commands - I held my ground for the recall opportunity that did not involve relocation. And - it worked! (will be back on AD for a 2 yr recall in April) In my civ job, well, I really do not give a rat's a$$ about promotions (then I'd not be working with solely veterans - which I most thoroughly enjoy) Nor do I really care what my bosses in the local office think regarding office statistics, my mil leave, etc. The golden fuzzy handcuffs have become a fashion statement. I wonder if I'll get lazier as the clock winds down?

 

[Nords]

I wonder if I'll get lazier as the clock winds down?

Doesn't seem very "lazy" from this post!

 

[Fireup2020]

Doesn't seem very "lazy" from this post!

LOL - feels like it at times! Now that work stopped blocking this site, I spend more time here than whatever I should be doing when I don't have a customer! Maybe it is a good thing Facebook is blocked here!

 

[rescueme]

I made the firm decision on a retirement date about one year before I actually pulled the plug. The company required a three month notification (in order to do all the paperwork).

In that nine month period of being "non-officially" on pre-retirement, I told more than one person (including my direct manger) of my intentions.

Nobody could believe that I could be so positive that I would plan on retiring a year in advance, yet alone at an age much younger than those that retired in the past (not as early as some on this board, but before the age of 60).

What I found during that nine month period was that the time really dragged on, and day by day I was increasingly irate with the corporate culture that surrounded me.

However, being the "good soldier", I stuck it out, even though time seemed to go slower, day by day. BTW, I was employed there almost 30 years.

 

[Milton]

My next two promotions are automatic

How so?

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

That's my theme song!

Great story, scrabbler1. Easy to relate to, since I am same age as you and also a telecommuter (till retirement at the end of this month). I also loathe commuting.

FIRE as a realistic goal was the only thing that allowed me to endure work these past years. (I don't have a family.) I don't know what people do who have to face the grind every day without an escape route, or at least a realistic plan for one. I guess they go shopping.

They get on with the grind by telling you that you are a no-good playboy or playgirl and that family life is the only true fulfillment in life. Then of course they immediately segue into what a PIA their wives are or how burdensome their mortgages and real estate taxes are.

When I see such situations, I handle it one of two ways: Smile and say, hey, great, I'm really happy that you are happy, but you don't need to convince me because you have got yours, and if that doesn't placate them, I tell them I'm retiring in 4 years and watch them really blow a gasket.

 

[Onward]

I haven't described my situation as "retired" to anyone outside this board. I've always said, and still believe

Even more than they hate their captors, prisoners hate an escapee.

 

[BunsGettingFirm]

I haven't described my situation as "retired" to anyone outside this board. I've always said, and still believe

Yes, hence it's a weapon to be used only in extreme situations.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

Prisoners hate escapees because they wish they could escape as well, and it forces them to reexamine the choices they made in life that brought them to where they are today. Someone who is truly secure in his/her life situation wouldn't need to brag or complain about it.

 

[FUEGO]

I just had a conversation with a coworker at my sinking ship of a company. She said something like "if there were just someone here who didn't really care any more and were financially independent, then they could speak up and tell management how they really feel about X, Y, and Z". I mentioned that I'm in that position right now basically. I'm sure she thinks I mean I just don't really care anymore, but I really don't need the job at all to pay bills right now, and our family would get along just fine without the income for quite a while (indefinitely as long as DW keeps working ). But I'm 29 so the idea that I could be in this position is a foreign one to my coworker who apparently lives month to month and has a mortgage payment significantly bigger than her take home pay.

I have started voicing my opinion strongly about some particular aspects of mismanagement. Not in a rude way, just tired of being a yes man to ineffective uninformed opinions.

Among the other guys here at the company, every one is either up to their eyes in mortgage debt, and/or has a stay at home wife. I think they all need this job in order to meet their monthly obligations. Hence they can't voice their opinions too strongly.

 

[Jay_Gatsby]

I just had a conversation with a coworker at my sinking ship of a company. She said something like "if there were just someone here who didn't really care any more and were financially independent, then they could speak up and tell management how they really feel about X, Y, and Z". I mentioned that I'm in that position right now basically. I'm sure she thinks I mean I just don't really care anymore, but I really don't need the job at all to pay bills right now, and our family would get along just fine without the income for quite a while (indefinitely as long as DW keeps working ). But I'm 29 so the idea that I could be in this position is a foreign one to my coworker who apparently lives month to month and has a mortgage payment significantly bigger than her take home pay.

I have started voicing my opinion strongly about some particular aspects of mismanagement. Not in a rude way, just tired of being a yes man to ineffective uninformed opinions.

Among the other guys here at the company, every one is either up to their eyes in mortgage debt, and/or has a stay at home wife. I think they all need this job in order to meet their monthly obligations. Hence they can't voice their opinions too strongly.

Unfortunately, your words will likely fall on deaf ears. Management NEVER likes to be told it is mismanaging. You're better off taking your FI and going out on your own, or going to a different company where your opinions will be valued.

 

[Fireup2020]

How so?

O1 to O2 is 24 mos from date of rank (02Jun2011) provided I don't royally screw up.
O2-03 is month following 24 mos from that date of rank (01Jun2013)

All is per the USN instructions IAW Title 10 - works for me!

Promotion to O4 is based on a selection board.

 

[Nords]

I just had a conversation with a coworker at my sinking ship of a company. She said something like "if there were just someone here who didn't really care any more and were financially independent, then they could speak up and tell management how they really feel about X, Y, and Z".

In the military this is referred to as "Screw you, I got my retirement orders."

But in my training command I was mainly used by my own CO/XO to tell the "truth" to other commands and to those higher in the training chain of command. My boss was always free to later "clarify" or "rein me in" if the truth proved to be too difficult to handle.

The most compelling reason I've ever read to keep ER plans quiet is MB's example. IIRC he was just about to surprise everyone by giving his notice, the absolute minimum required by corporate policy, when his boss called him in to give him the news that they were laying him off. So his ER was accompanied by a nice severance package, unemployment benefits, and even a free laptop.

So don't give it away if you don't have to!

 

[Milton]

Wow, automatic promotions.

Things work very differently in the Canadian navy.

 

[Celany]

I think that I got into FIRE at the same time that I matured as a person overall, so it's hard to sort out why I feel the way I do, because of FIRE, & why I feel the way I do, because my outlook has gained more perspective.

For instance, I now know that in my current industry, the only way to get a good raise is to switch jobs, or interview around, find someone who will pay you a lot more, & then take that offer back to your company & tell them to match it or you go. If I know that, no matter what I won't get a great raise, then I'm not going to bust my butt for the company.

I also know that the company has 2 funds - 1 fund for all the raise money, & 1 fund for "talent that needs an incentive to stay". This is part of why the raises are crappy - it doesn't matter how well people do, and how much money they bring in, the fund for raises doesn't increase based on that. If everybody was a rockstar, everybody would get the same crap raise. They truly do only give you a big raise if they've decided that you're valuable & you tell them you're going to walk. If that's the way most companies feel, then they do not deserve my best level of work.

I also try to stay out of gossip, because I have this crazy thing called "a life outside of work". And the more dragged in to work politics & gossip I get, the harder it is to keep up with that outside life. So as I've gotten older, I tend to have a few very good friends at work, team members who have my back & I have their back, I enjoy talking to them, but otherwise, I want to get in, do my work, and get out.

Even once I get very close to ER/break, I doubt I'll "tell it like it is" much (at least where I am now), because I don't think it will make a whit of difference; this company has lost all of my respect, it's just a place that I know the ins & outs of, do a solid job at, and collect a paycheck for my troubles.

I do that think whether from FIRE or just experience people are suprised that someone my age (early 30s) cares so little about kissing butt, or putting in the extra effort to be a superstar. But I 've seen how superstars get treated - more work & responsibility piled on with no added benefits...why on earth should I want that when I know that the "raise" they dangle in front of me would be *years* in coming & I could get it *now* if I wanted, if I took the time to look for another company & switch?