How I Stayed Retired for 10 Years after Retiring in 1999

OK - We're looking for your essay next!

Seriously!

Audrey

With a prod like that... well here it goes GULP!

My working career spanned a 26 year period from the time I finished Graduate school (MBA) in the Fall of 1976 to FIRE on December 2002. During the early part (to 1990) I worked on three overseas assignments totaling 7 years in the Middle East and South America on large engineering projects in remote locations. Those overseas assignments are what got me started on the path to ER.

I only accepted assignments that would allow my family to travel with me (married status assignments) because I had heard of and seen too many instances of compromised family life if wife and kids stayed home in the US while hubby went on these overseas assignments.

Although keeping the family together was my primary motivator, I quickly realized that extreme LBYM is a given when you are living in a construction camp (albeit a large one with all the comforts of home) far away from shops etc. Although shopping (even extreme shopping) is available in the large cities of third world countries, the difficulty of getting there means one doesn't do it very often.

During my first two overseas assignments (to 1986) my "investing" consisted exclusively of CD's as I was concerned that being so remote I would not be able to track my investments very easily and not be able to react if needed ( Don't forget this all took place long before the internet).

At this time, I had not done much reading at all on investment, asset allocation or any such and my idea of "investing" was you buy a stock, it goes up like a rocket and you quickly sell it before it crashes. (Yeah right)

When I got back to the US in 1986 I spent that year doing a lot of reading on investment and general strategies since my savings from those years overseas now amounted to a princely sum in the low 6 digits and I didn't want to do anything rash or stupid . My reading led me to Vanguard and Bogle and Mutual Funds and the concept of asset allocation. By the time 1987 came I started implementing my investment plan and started buying into a basket of Mutual Funds (Welleslley, Wellington, Mutual Shares, Selected American Shares and such). I also started buying individual stocks just to test how I would do against "professional" management (about a 10% play fund).

Of course, I started investing in the market just before the crash of October 87. During that crash, I was so paralyzed with fear (it happened so quickly !) that I did nothing and after some months, when the market started recovering I looked back and said hey- that wasn't so bad.

My goal during the working years was to have 75% in stock mutual funds but always at least one year worth of expenses in cash.

In 1992 after 5 years, I compared the returns from my individual stocks to the mutual fund basket. After all my study and buying and selling my net return, taking all commissions, dividends etc on my individual stock picks was exactly zero! The total return on the stock funds was 9.7% No Warren Buffet here. I sold all my stocks and haven't bought any since.

I maxed out on all available tax advantaged retirement vehicles during the years I worked as did my wife once she started working after my last OS assignment in 1990.

The bug for FI/RE got in my bonnet when I took a sabbatical for the year 1990 upon returning from that last OS assignment with the intention of discovering what I really wanted to do for the rest of my working career ( which I assumed at that time would run to normal retirement at 65).

What I discovered during my sabbatical year is that I really really enjoyed being on a sabbatical! I then started thinking and calculating what it would really take to live like I was then doing and based on some crude calculators available at that time ( Monte Carlo simulations and Firecalc not being available then, everyone did the simple well - the market goes up on average 10% a year so if you take out 7-8 % a year you'll be OK).

So, based on that I calculated that I could retire at about 55 if I could achieve three things: Pay off the house, have no debt at all and achieve a 10% or so rate of return on my investments.

Since I lived near San Francisco, housing prices were monumental and I quickly realized that even with good jobs ( I'm talking low six figures here not CEO salaries or anything like that - my highest position was Division controller)
retiring in the San Francisco area would be very difficult so in 1999 we started looking for a rural - semi rural area to move to which we found in SW Oregon. We moved there at the end of 99 and the megacorp I worked for was kind enough to let me telecommute for the next three years (2000-2002)
which neatly allowed me to survive the crash of 2000-2002 without having to draw from my retirements funds. The sale of the House in the Bay area in 1999 bought the house where I live now (much more modest but comfortable and on 5+ acres) free and clear.

As I approached ER, I shifted my investments to bring down the stock portion to a band of 55-65%, with rest in bonds and cash, the cash portion including 4 years of living expenses. This approach came in very handy as in early 2007 I was forced to rebalance back to a 55% stock portion since the market was shooting up so quickly then.

Unlike Audrey, I take all of my dividends as well as CG from the taxable portion of my investments and find that between that and a small hobby goat milk soap business that my wife started we live quite comfortably. I will have a very small pension ($5 k year starting in 2015) no other pensions or benefits. The soap feeds the critters and gives us a little extra so DW is very happy and I mostly get to do the sabbatical thing so...

As to numbers (all per Quicken):

Net worth 12/31/2002 = 100%
Net worth 8/27/2009 =134%
Net worth at peak Oct 2007 = 158%
Net worth near bottom 3/15/09 = 116%

All the firecalc runs as well as the montecarlo simulations on Financial engines website (thru Vanguard) indicate that we s/b OK with a 95% success rate and the NW numbers so far anyway seem to agree but who knows?

I fully realize that luck played an incredible part. For example, If I had not had megacorp income during the 2000-2002 period so that I didn't have to take distributions from my investments, I don't think I would have been able to survive the 2000-2002 debacle with sufficient funds to then recover enough to again face the 2008-early 2009 even worse debacle.
 
With a prod like that... well here it goes GULP!
Hey great story ejman, and thanks for sharing! Part of your "luck" also was having a big fat chunk saved up to put into the market in 1987 - in spite of the short "crash" one of the most amazing bull market runs of all time. That and still working during 2000-2002. How nice that your company let you telecommute!

I'm also very impressed that you so honestly benchmarked your own stock management performance against your fund managers and handed the proceeds over to the winners - very wise!

You recognized that if you wanted to ER, you would have to move to a less expensive area, and you were willing to do it! With such careful planning and execution too.

Your story really deserves it's own thread. Looks like these "testimonials" from folks who have been ER'd for quite a while already are pretty useful for the readers here.

Audrey
 
Of course if you counted the company stock as well we really had a much smaller initial withdrawal rate - more like 2.67%, which is extremely conservative.

Congratulations on your 10 years retirement anniversary.

At 2.67%, I'm confident you'll never have to worry about money ever again. The same should apply to your heir, and their heir, and their heir... assuming that the withdrawal rate remain at 2.xx%. After a few generations, the asset would probably reach the Billion mark.

Sam
 
ejman, that was fascinating! Thank you. I feel like I know both you and Audrey better after reading your stories.
 
yes it was all very interesting... now if only i had 1.8 X of what i need instead of 80 percent... alas...
 
yes it was all very interesting... now if only i had 1.8 X of what i need instead of 80 percent... alas...
Based on my initial estimates of our expenses, I started out thinking we were closer to 1.5X what we needed.

Don't know if that helps - well maybe just a little bit?

Audrey
 
Taxes

Audrey

What percentage of you portfolio is paid to the tax man every year? Approximately? ie for dividends, capital gains etc. I always read that my rate will be low but I would like to get some real data.

For ex in my case, Id like to retire (eventually) with 1.5-2M and take 4%. But I cant get a feeling for how much taxes Ill be paying every year.

Thanx in advance

B
 
Thanks a ton to audreyh1 and ejman for sharing their stories (and of course others who commented on). I was desperately looking for this. I know there are many ways you can do it but how regular folks really do it?
A very good starter for me. I am going to search if anybody has posted their 'homework' too.
Thanks again.
 
I would really enjoying seeing such well written experiences like these to made a "sticky" for both newcomers to old timers to reference. They detail the human experience, of dreams, planning, luck, opportunities taken and most importantly coming out the other end OK during a very difficult period. I found this thread to be interesting, informative and inspirational. Congrats to all who have FIRE'd in the last decade and made it!!!
 
Excellent posts.
I am paying very close attention to the 5 points in the Conclusions.
My early investing days also occurred in the early 2000s, as luck would have it. I cranked in as much as I could via DCA and made the usual beginner's mistakes (too many funds, chasing performance). I finally got with the program after reading quite a few investment books.
TY for sharing :flowers:
 
Audrey

What percentage of you portfolio is paid to the tax man every year? Approximately? ie for dividends, capital gains etc. I always read that my rate will be low but I would like to get some real data.

For ex in my case, Id like to retire (eventually) with 1.5-2M and take 4%. But I cant get a feeling for how much taxes Ill be paying every year.

Thanx in advance

B
First of all, my portfolio is all taxable investments and this affects taxes in a different way than having a portfolio in an IRA and drawing from it. In the former case, taxes are incurred from interest/dividend and cap gains distributions paid out by the mutual fund and the occasional realized gain/loss from a sale. In the later case, taxes are incurred from withdrawing X amount from the portfolio. So you can see for planning purposes you have to carefully take your scenario into account.

It looks like my portfolio has been averaging around 0.5% of the portfolio although some years it really varies. Still, I have assumed 0.5% for planning purposes. I had used it for some of the initial planning and the assumption has appeared to be reasonable for me.

I think for some folks that number may be a tad high as I've seen other people report lower percentages. My top tax bracket is 25%, but many years my income is subject to the AMT which drives the tax burden up. I also only use the standard deduction.

I notice the following pattern - as the markets extend a bull run (which also means higher interest income), the portfolio starts throwing off a LOT in dividend and cap gains distributions. Taxes go up. Then we go through a bear market, taxes go almost to zero suddenly because there is opportunity to harvest tax losses. After a big bear the mutual funds throw off much less in distributions, and interest income is much lower due to low interest rates at the same time. This seems to last a couple of years. So I've seen swings from -0.25% to 1.1% paid to taxes from the portfolio.

Recommendation on how to model your potential tax burden:

I recommend that you take a balanced mutual fund that roughly matches your target allocation, and look at what it has generated in distributions over several years. This information is readily available. Assume that you have your entire allocation in this fund and see what taxes you would end up paying each year. This is probably the most realistic way to model your potential tax burden.

Audrey
 
Wow Audry, great post. Lots of parallels to my situation, although yours sure sounds like it went a lot smoother than mine is going due to your extreme planning skills.

I'm worrying my head off about setting up my bond allocation at this tricky time, so I've decided to DCA into it over 24 months like you did and also stick to mostly ST bonds for now.

Thanks for all the additional help you have given me over the last few weeks!

xcardude
 
xcardude, did you sell your house? You may have posted an update but I missed it.

Nope, still have it. Decided to keep it until the kids graduate from HS and start college. Another 9 years. I refinanced and got the payment in line with our budget, and we are not making our crazy move to Costa Rica, and DW loves the house, and nothing is selling worth a damn in our area right now, so there are our reasons for staying. The main one being the DW one. :blush:
 
Thanks audreyh1! This is the sort of real-world information you can't get anywhere else that keeps people coming back here.
 
Audrey and EJMan,

Thank you both for your thoughtful and detailed posts. It really helps to see how successful ERs are handling their finances.

Thanks again.
 
Conclusions

... but I think survival also had more do with starting with plenty and overestimating our expenses.

...

Nice post. Thanks for the background.

Your careful and conservative approach has worked for you... having plenty of cushion helps.

Congrats on the first 10 and good luck on the next 10.
 
Thank you for posting your story, Audrey. It's good experience to share with others who are working toward the same goal!
 
i want to print this and read it at my leasure, i love reading peoples success stories and seeing what i can steal to improve my own situation. the thing about you audrey is you lived it. alot of us like myself are still in the planning stages and while we are like the new west point graduates you are battle hardened and been there and done it...
 
For ex in my case, Id like to retire (eventually) with 1.5-2M and take 4%. But I cant get a feeling for how much taxes Ill be paying every year.

Tax laws will change, that is to say taxes will be higher than they are now. But the way things stand right now, taxes for a retiree living off a portfolio in a taxable account can be very low.

Assume a $2MM portfolio split 60/40 between the S&P 500 index and the Bond Market Index held in a fully taxable account. The portfolio yields $54,720 in total income, broken down between $29K in ordinary interest income and $25.6K in stock dividends. To reach the 4% withdrawal rate ($80K), assume the retiree sells assets of $25,280 and realizes capital gains on half of that amount ($12,640). Plug these numbers into the calculator at Dinkytown with the assumption that our retiree is married and their total Federal tax owed is . . . $1,034.

On the other hand, someone drawing $80,000 out of a traditional IRA will pay $8,360 in Federal taxes. Someone drawing $80,000 out of a Roth IRA will pay $0. (The poor working stiff who grosses $80K per year in regular wages pays $13,360 in Federal taxes).

As you can see, the specifics matter quite a bit. So you'll have to come up with some estimation as to how specifically your 4% withdrawal is funded to arrive at any reasonable approximation of your tax bill.
 
i want to print this and read it at my leasure, i love reading peoples success stories and seeing what i can steal to improve my own situation. the thing about you audrey is you lived it. alot of us like myself are still in the planning stages and while we are like the new west point graduates you are battle hardened and been there and done it...
Mathjak - I didn't realize you weren't already retired! Running around taking all those great photographs - you sure are acting retired! How do you have time to work? LOL!

Audrey
 
Mathjak - I didn't realize you weren't already retired! Running around taking all those great photographs - you sure are acting retired! How do you have time to work? LOL!

Audrey

i only work to fill the time between weekends ha ha ha
 
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