I think Vanguard Just Called Me Difficult and Expensive

[easysurfer]

Mental note: 8/30 send note to V telling them why you are moving. (heh, heh, do it for the rest of us might not have the courage to move.)

After getting my ducks in line (like turning off VG auto withdrawals), my understanding is should only take about a week for getting everything moved over.

 

[Gumby]

Seems like a lot of agita for a very small fee that can easily be avoided. But it's your money, not mine. I have had for some time all e-delivery from Vanguard. In the rare event that I need a paper copy of something, I just print it.

 

[Koolau]

Seems like a lot of agita for a very small fee that can easily be avoided. But it's your money, not mine. I have had for some time all e-delivery from Vanguard. In the rare event that I need a paper copy of something, I just print it.

Well, look at it any way you want to. At a minimum, I will need to buy a new laser printer to make Tax copies. (Don't ask why a laser for a few copies - or I'll tell you how much time I've spent trying to get my "new" printer to w*rk since my old "new" one didn't w*rk either. SO don't ask.) Otherwise, it looks like around $200/year for what I used to get for free. Is that on me or is that on V? I'll let you decide for yourself. (Heh, heh, I'm saying it's on V!

Also, and this is where I agree - e-delivery is probably easy. Having said that: I haven't logged into my V acct. for so long I don't remember how. (BUT keep in mind - I didn't have to log in - I get all my acct. info every month on easy to read/easy to file (in a - what's that thing called? Yes. A file!) Now, am I certain I can get in? Yes. Do I want to? No. I don't need to "do" anything (other than flick the switch to get e-delivery.) I always liked V because they never made me DO anything (unless I really wanted to.) I was PO'd when they made me switch to brokerage accounts. Guess what! Now instead of 4 accounts, I have a dozen I have to pay for paper reports.

I'm just glad Jack Bogle isn't around to see this.

 

[easysurfer]

Seems like a lot of agita for a very small fee that can easily be avoided. But it's your money, not mine. I have had for some time all e-delivery from Vanguard. In the rare event that I need a paper copy of something, I just print it.

$25 each MF account this year. But what's not to say instead of a stick this year, VG will use a club and up the fee to $100 each account to get rid of these freeloaders. Unless of course you have over $5M. Don't want to get them upset .

 

[Gumby]

Well, look at it any way you want to. At a minimum, I will need to buy a new laser printer to make Tax copies. (Don't ask why a laser for a few copies - or I'll tell you how much time I've spent trying to get my "new" printer to w*rk since my old "new" one didn't w*rk either. SO don't ask.) Otherwise, it looks like around $200/year for what I used to get for free. Is that on me or is that on V? I'll let you decide for yourself. (Heh, heh, I'm saying it's on V!

Also, and this is where I agree - e-delivery is probably easy. Having said that: I haven't logged into my V acct. for so long I don't remember how. (BUT keep in mind - I didn't have to log in - I get all my acct. info every month on easy to read/easy to file (in a - what's that thing called? Yes. A file!) Now, am I certain I can get in? Yes. Do I want to? No. I don't need to "do" anything (other than flick the switch to get e-delivery.) I always liked V because they never made me DO anything (unless I really wanted to.) I was PO'd when they made me switch to brokerage accounts. Guess what! Now instead of 4 accounts, I have a dozen I have to pay for paper reports.

I'm just glad Jack Bogle isn't around to see this.

I am confused about one thing. You say you went from 4 accounts to 12 accounts when you switched to brokerage rather than the old mutual fund account, and I wonder why. I have always had 5 accounts at Vanguard - one tIRA for the young wife and one for me; one Roth IRA for the young wife and one for me; and a joint taxable account. The accounts have had a variety of mutual funds, individual stocks and treasuries in them. When we switched over to brokerage accounts, we still had the same 5 accounts.

 

[Koolau]

I am confused about one thing. You say you went from 4 accounts to 12 accounts when you switched to brokerage rather than the old mutual fund account, and I wonder why. I have always had 5 accounts at Vanguard - one tIRA for the young wife and one for me; one Roth IRA for the young wife and one for me; and a joint taxable account. The accounts have had a variety of mutual funds, individual stocks and treasuries in them. When we switched over to brokerage accounts, we still had the same 5 accounts.

It's possible they aggregate the MFs into accounts (kinda not sure about that) BUT I got a dunning letter for every MF. I figured (Occam's Razor theory) they plan to charge for every MF. Is that correct? I don't know. But if not, why such a big pile of paper - THAT V DOESN'T WANT TO BE MAILING OUT. Come on guys at V!

 

[easysurfer]

It's possible they aggregate the MFs into accounts (kinda not sure about that) BUT I got a dunning letter for every MF. I figured (Occam's Razor theory) they plan to charge for every MF. Is that correct? I don't know. But if not, why such a big pile of paper - THAT V DOESN'T WANT TO BE MAILING OUT. Come on guys at V!

Yes, every MF account. I have 10 accounts. 5 of them non retirement. 4 traditional IRA and 1 Roth IRA. All got dinged at $25 each. As if I start getting charged for napkins and packets of ketchup at that burger joint til I've had enough.

 

[Koolau]

Yes, every MF account. I have 10 accounts. 5 of them non retirement. 4 traditional IRA and 1 Roth IRA. All got dinged at $25 each. As if I start getting charged for napkins and packets of ketchup at that burger joint til I've had enough.

Again, what burns me is that they did the "you gotta go to a brokerage account" letter. Where upon, they can charge me for each MF instead of my original accounts that had more than one MF. Am I imagining this or did V pull a fast one?

 

[oldtimer]

It's possible they aggregate the MFs into accounts (kinda not sure about that) BUT I got a dunning letter for every MF. I figured (Occam's Razor theory) they plan to charge for every MF. Is that correct? I don't know. But if not, why such a big pile of paper - THAT V DOESN'T WANT TO BE MAILING OUT. Come on guys at V!

The MF platform is actually based on each MF as a separate account # and they are aggregated together for each type of IRA, taxable accounts. Remember that VG Group is owned by the separate MFs. Each MF had its own bookkeeping when they started out back in the 70's just as each MF had separate boards. So it is $25/fund if one is on the legacy MF platform.

 

[Gumby]

The MF platform is actually based on each MF as a separate account # and they are aggregated together for each type of IRA, taxable accounts. Remember that VG Group is owned by the separate MFs. Each MF had its own bookkeeping when they started out back in the 70's just as each MF had separate boards. So it is $25/fund if one is on the legacy MF platform.

Thanks, that makes sense, but it doesn't square with Koolau's experience that he now has more accounts after switching to the brokerage account.

 

[Koolau]

Thanks, that makes sense, but it doesn't square with Koolau's experience that he now has more accounts after switching to the brokerage account.

All I know is that I used to have like 4 accounts with multiple MFs in them. (At least that's the way I remember it (which doesn't mean it's accurate.)

While we're on the subject, does anyone know which kinds of accounts one needs a piece of paper at the end of the year to send to the IRS? For instance, I know I need a 1099X for my joint account in the S&P 500. I'm sure there is some reporting required for my run-away megacorp stock in my only individual stock account. BUT are there any reporting requirements for my Roths?

I figure, I might just pay the $25 to get reports on accounts that need IRS reporting on a yearly basis and go to e-reports on the Roths.

Roths are the bulk of my MFs? Thanks.

 

[Gumby]

I think you mean either a form 1099-DIV, which sets out dividends and capital gain distributions from a taxable mutual fund; Form 1099 INT, which reports interest income; or Form 1099-B which reports brokered sales. (I believe these three also can be combined in a single statement if coming from a single source). Although you will use the information from them to prepare your return, you do not include these in your tax return.

You should get a Form 1099-R if you make a distribution from your tIRA (which includes any Roth conversion). This you do need to include in your tax return.

 

[Koolau]

I think you mean either a form 1099-DIV, which sets out dividends and capital gain distributions from a taxable mutual fund; Form 1099 INT, which reports interest income; or Form 1099-B which reports brokered sales. (I believe these three also can be combined in a single statement if coming from a single source). Although you will use the information from them to prepare your return, you do not include these in your tax return.

You should get a Form 1099-R if you make a distribution from your tIRA (which includes any Roth conversion). This you do need to include in your tax return.

Thanks.

Yeah, sorry, I was thinking at one time you had to "include" them with the return (of course, I've never actually done a tax return.) In any case, I was wanting to know WHICH funds would require 1099 or other info to include in a tax return. THAT info, I'd like to have on a Vanguard generated piece of paper to save for 7 years, just in case. I don't think the Roths need to be "reported" on each year.

 

[jazz4cash]

I’m somewhat incredulous how confusing this is but it seems to be typical for VG. So many different opinions on how the fee is assessed. A quick read of the VG site seemed to clear things up. $25 per brokerage account or $25 per mutual fund… so this is another stick to push investors into brokerage accounts. Five funds in a brokerage account get charged one $25 fee. Five funds in a legacy account get charged $125.

 

[Koolau]

I’m somewhat incredulous how confusing this is but it seems to be typical for VG. So many different opinions on how the fee is assessed. A quick read of the VG site seemed to clear things up. $25 per brokerage account or $25 per mutual fund… so this is another stick to push investors into brokerage accounts. Five funds in a brokerage account get charged one $25 fee. Five funds in a legacy account get charged $125.

Well, ya gotta hand it to them. They're persistent! I suppose if one person has a legacy type account, they'll have to fix their old software. Next, it'll be $100/account for not switching.

 

[TheWizard]

Thanks.

Yeah, sorry, I was thinking at one time you had to "include" them with the return (of course, I've never actually done a tax return.) In any case, I was wanting to know WHICH funds would require 1099 or other info to include in a tax return. THAT info, I'd like to have on a Vanguard generated piece of paper to save for 7 years, just in case. I don't think the Roths need to be "reported" on each year.

What do you mean you've never done a tax return?
I've done one every year since around 1969 or so.

And yes, I switched to the brokerage account at Vanguard soon after it was offered. Lots easier to buy ETFs with limit orders that way...

 

[Koolau]

What do you mean you've never done a tax return?
I've done one every year since around 1969 or so.

And yes, I switched to the brokerage account at Vanguard soon after it was offered. Lots easier to buy ETFs with limit orders that way...

Heh, heh, I mean I've NEVER done a tax return! Even as a kid, when I first started making money from the family business. The CPA for the business did my tax returns. We continued to use a CPA from then on to this day.

 

[Paulz]

Vanguard used to be about the little guy. But the move or else doesn't seem like about the little guy at all.

I watched this video from Clark Howard about VG. Video is about 8 months old but I'm just now seeing what the fuss is about.

I have both a Fidelity and a Vanguard account and am having issues with my Fidelity account to the point that I'm moving all my accounts over to Vanguard. Fidelity is struggling with basic functionality like account access, so its not even the complex investor issues.

Vanguard does have its issues, but Fidelity isn't the answer that many seem to indicate it is.

 

[easysurfer]

I have both a Fidelity and a Vanguard account and am having issues with my Fidelity account to the point that I'm moving all my accounts over to Vanguard. Fidelity is struggling with basic functionality like account access, so its not even the complex investor issues.

Vanguard does have its issues, but Fidelity isn't the answer that many seem to indicate it is.

Not exactly what I wanted to read as I'm approaching the other way. Vanguard to Fidelity. But thanks for the reply.

By basic functionality you mean like signing in online? Or like once signed in, still other issues?

You know the old saying, "The grass is always greener on the other side" .

 

[teej1985]

I have both a Fidelity and a Vanguard account and am having issues with my Fidelity account to the point that I'm moving all my accounts over to Vanguard. Fidelity is struggling with basic functionality like account access, so its not even the complex investor issues.

Vanguard does have its issues, but Fidelity isn't the answer that many seem to indicate it is.

What account access issues are you having at Fidelity?

 

[cranberryjoe]

I have both a Fidelity and a Vanguard account and am having issues with my Fidelity account to the point that I'm moving all my accounts over to Vanguard. Fidelity is struggling with basic functionality like account access, so its not even the complex investor issues.

Vanguard does have its issues, but Fidelity isn't the answer that many seem to indicate it is.

I've never had any issues with accessing my accounts at Fidelity in the 20+ years I've had accounts with them. I was just logged in today to check my accounts. What issues are you having?

 

[Paulz]

Not exactly what I wanted to read as I'm approaching the other way. Vanguard to Fidelity. But thanks for the reply.

By basic functionality you mean like signing in online? Or like once signed in, still other issues?

You know the old saying, "The grass is always greener on the other side" . Or is it?

I have accounts with a brokerage, IRA, and Roth IRA. A few months ago I was given "Account Authority" on my mothers account, so basically I can manage her account for her. Once Fidelity granted this account authority on her account, my login ability to my account went away. I can't log into her account, but more importantly I can't log into mine. I call the customer service, made to verify my identity, re-create the userid\password, go to log into my account, and can't get in.

I get routed to the next level of Fidelity customer service, same identity verification, same process, same results. So far its been three calls on three separate days for over an hour each with no resolution.

Frustrating in that they can see my accounts, they verify my identity, I can recreate a password, but the next time I try to log in neither my userid and password are recognized. Since no userid recognized, there is no password reset, which necessitates the call.

A viscous cycle that I'm unwilling to continue to pursue.

 

[Paulz]

I've never had any issues with accessing my accounts at Fidelity in the 20+ years I've had accounts with them. I was just logged in today to check my accounts.

Thats my experience with Vanguard....but no issues is 25+ years.....

 

[easysurfer]

I have accounts with a brokerage, IRA, and Roth IRA. A few months ago I was given "Account Authority" on my mothers account, so basically I can manage her account for her. Once Fidelity granted this account authority on her account, my login ability to my account went away. I can't log into her account, but more importantly I can't log into mine. I call the customer service, made to verify my identity, re-create the userid\password, go to log into my account, and can't get in.

I get routed to the next level of Fidelity customer service, same identity verification, same process, same results. So far its been three calls on three separate days for over an hour each with no resolution.

Frustrating in that they can see my accounts, they verify my identity, I can recreate a password, but the next time I try to log in neither my userid and password are recognized. Since no userid recognized, there is no password reset, which necessitates the call.

A viscous cycle that I'm unwilling to continue to pursue.

That does sound frustrating. I think reasons for going to one place or another maybe isn't the overall level of support but things that leave a bad taste in your mouth. Maybe kind of like the days of cable TV or phone service. For one person who didn't feel treated well at one place, there's another story of someone that didn't get treated well at another.

Thanks for elaborating with the details.

 

[easysurfer]

I kicked off the "divorce" proceeding today. In about a week I'll be trading in the tan uniform for avocado green .