If you’re so smart, why aren’t you rich?

Some miss what, in my mind, is an important point. People do not always experience "good luck". People do not always experience "bad luck". Everyone over their lifetime encounters a mix of both good and bad luck. Perhaps it is a matter of recognizing what is good luck, and taking advantage of it, and recognizing what is bad luck, and figuring out what can be done to avoid encountering that bad luck again.

Sometimes one has to learn, or be taught, what is good luck and what is bad luck, and how to react. Sometimes what seems as bad luck can become good luck if handled properly, and sometimes what seems as good luck might become bad luck if not handled properly.
 
Sometimes what seems as bad luck can become good luck if handled properly, and sometimes what seems as good luck might become bad luck if not handled properly.

Yes. Look at the majority of lottery winners.

It's more likely you’ll get struck by lightning than win the Powerball — but if you do win, there is an even better chance that you'll go broke.

Nearly 70% of lottery winners end up broke within seven years. Even worse, several winners have died tragically or witnessed those close to them suffer.
 
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Leaving out the astonishing wealth class, in point of fact all of the well to do (2-8 mill) folks I know are "rich" because of intelligence. Combination of good education leading to better employment and enough sense to invest more or less rationally and not consuming more than they produce.

One point regarding Bill Gates that is often over looked. He was born into the sort of wealth that meant that when he had the good idea he could explore it without ever worrying about heat/shelter/food/medical care/etc. That makes a huge difference.

Bill Gates is, to me, one of the easiest examples to use of people that took advantage of luck to become rich.

That doesn't diminish the fact that he's a very intelligent and driven individual, but luck played multiple roles in his success.

He was lucky to grow up in a family that could afford to support him. Had he grown up in a family that couldn't afford prestigious universities and ended up at some community college, MITS likely would have never bothered responding to his early letters. Without that, some other person would likely have been contacted by IBM to help them out with an operating system and we'd never have heard of Bill Gates (just like we've never heard of hundreds of people who worked on developing operating systems in the early years of the personal computer).

Happening to enjoy/have a passion for computing, while being intelligent/talented in that area, in the early days of computing, and being in a position to take advantage of the lack of competition and his university's reputation at the same time are what propelled him to riches. That same combination today (minus the timing alone) would get someone a pretty decent job in a company doing coding etc today.

No matter how talented, intelligent, dedicated, etc a person is, luck plays a role in their success. Why was Carrie Underwood working for peanuts in a small town with her talent before going on American Idol? Because "luck" hadn't shown up yet. She'd been singing publicly for years, so plenty of people had seen her talent. She just hadn't come across the "right" people who could/would recognize that talent and propel her to stardom yet. If the screeners hadn't recognized it, she never would have gotten in front of the judges and would probably still be working a normal job back in Oklahoma.

I've liked this clip since the first time I saw it:
 
I guess there's the danger of making generalization. People can argue about things forever, but they are describing different situations in life.

If one goes to Las Vegas and puts it all on red, well, he cannot try again and again. He's done if he fails.

And if he wins, he should stop instead of going another round.

Most people would say he should not even think of trying in the first place.

I've posted this utube video here before. It can happen. However, this is something probably best tried at home for fun and not for real. Odds are a little less than 50%. (Actually I think it's ~47.4% for one spin on an America wheel, if I remember correctly)

 
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^ I like that is more risk then luck to me thou.
 
Everything we do in life has some risk, to varying degrees. Most risk can be mitigated, but few eliminated.
 
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That same combination today (minus the timing alone) would get someone a pretty decent job in a company doing coding etc today.

No matter how talented, intelligent, dedicated, etc a person is, luck plays a role in their success.

What I take from this is that the Bill Gates talent of today getting someone a pretty decent job in a company doing coding, etc... today can still be good or bad depending on a person's other choices. To clarify, I am sure there are plenty of coders out there who LBYM, max out their 401K's etc... And there are probably other coders out there who live pay check to pay check. I believe that you can succeed without having extraordinary good luck. Now having extraordinary bad luck could be hard to overcome.

Being a successful coder could be a pretty good deal. There can only be so many Bill Gates. Most likely a bunch of ER folks out in the world who were coders.
 
... Being a successful coder could be a pretty good deal. There can only be so many Bill Gates. Most likely a bunch of ER folks out in the world who were coders.
I do not know about Bill's talent as a programmer, but he was there at the right time, meaning the birth of the personal computer. He quit Harvard, because as he said, by the time he finished school it would be too late.

Another luck falling on his lap was that Kildall messed up the deal to sell CP/M to IBM when the latter brought the IBM-PC to the market. And the MS-DOS that Gates licensed, not sold, to IBM, he did not write but bought from Seattle Computer Products for $50K. Back then he only had or wrote MS-Basic interpreter, first written for the Altair 8800.

Gates was a shrewd businessman, despite looking like a nerd. If he were a true nerd, he would not get so rich. He made so many right moves along his career.
 
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Love the Conan clip but recognizing that times have changed to some degree and that the path for 'tall, white guys' is not nearly as easy as it once was. Perhaps that's why there seems to be all the anger coming from that quarter.
 
I worked around a lot (100's or maybe even 1000's) of coders for decades. All had degrees, in either CS or EE and many had multiple advanced degrees in multiple disciplines. All were "smart" in their fields... Most did well, (measured by advancement and $$) and of course some did better than others. However "all" of the "most" successful people (advancement and $$) were those who established their management skills early in their careers and rose through the ranks without reading, writing or trouble-shooting another line of code after their first few years of employment.

I learned quickly that a CS or EE degree and a 4.0 GPA from a big name school might get your foot in the door but once you were in, it was another ball game.
 
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I had lunch yesterday with some folks who live in an extremely wealthy neighborhood in Southern CA. It occurred to me as I listened to them talk about things they’re doing with their kids that it’s not surprising the rich get richer. These folks are taking their kids to Europe before college, because “they have to have that broadening cultural experience” before going off to college. They are sending their children to the best schools they can get into so they can build networks that will serve them well throughout their careers. The parents of these kids are obviously very successful financially and well-educated, and they help them a lot with homework and high school projects. It’s easy to understand why people growing up with high parental involvement, exposure to different cultures, and a focus on “meeting the right people” do better than many others.

In contrast, I grew up knowing that if I didn’t get a significant scholarship, I’d have to go to junior college and live at home. I was the valedictorian of my high school class and had lots of extracurricular activities so I was able to get a full tuition, room & board scholarship - whew! I didn’t even apply to any Ivy League schools as it just didn’t seem like a realistic possibility. And my parents never traveled outside of the US except for WWII duty. We took family vacations in the car, going to visit relatives, not flying to Europe to experience culture.

With some good luck and hard work, I got my education, built a successful career and was able to ER at 56, but it was definitely enlightening for me to hear the advantages other kids have. Good thing I didn’t know about this growing up ... I might have been intimidated!
 
I learned quickly that a CS or EE degree and a 4.0 GPA from a big name school might get your foot in the door but once you were in, it was another ball game.

Agree with you about getting your foot in the door but it also helps you climb the management ladder. I had a 3.7 GPA for my undergraduate degree but it was a tough University where relatively few made it to graduation. So my foot just kept the door open. I worked for 3 different companies in my 35 years since graduation. All three had a policy where you could not be a manager or part of executive management without a degree. Online degrees did not count in the last company. You need good technical and communications skills and business acumen to succeed. Some luck also helps.
 
I had lunch yesterday with some folks who live in an extremely wealthy neighborhood in Southern CA. It occurred to me as I listened to them talk about things they’re doing with their kids that it’s not surprising the rich get richer. These folks are taking their kids to Europe before college, because “they have to have that broadening cultural experience” before going off to college. They are sending their children to the best schools they can get into so they can build networks that will serve them well throughout their careers. The parents of these kids are obviously very successful financially and well-educated, and they help them a lot with homework and high school projects. It’s easy to understand why people growing up with high parental involvement, exposure to different cultures, and a focus on “meeting the right people” do better than many others.

I agree with you. You should visit Switzerland. You will see where the .01% of Americans educate their kids for that matter .01% of the world. Some of the private boarding schools take kids at pre-school age. If parents are sending their kids away that young you have to ask yourself, why have kids? These wealthy kids meet their peers from all over the world. If they don't get into trouble, they go on to the finest universities and move up the political and corporate ladder pretty fast ahead of the rest who had to work much harder. If they get do get into trouble, their wealthy parents move them to another school. Educating rich kids is big business in Switzerland.
 
Smart is not the same as error-free

Intelligence allows people to understand complex things, but it in no way prevents them from occasionally being total cement-heads.

Just because you can figure out the right answer doesn't mean you'll act on it. The top four smartest people I've ever known all made preposterously bad relationship decisions which torpedoed their personal and financial lives.

Also, consider that high-stakes endeavors attract more than one smart participant. In zero-sum contests, they can't all win.
 
All three had a policy where you could not be a manager or part of executive management without a degree. Online degrees did not count in the last company. You need good technical and communications skills and business acumen to succeed. Some luck also helps.
I worked for two of the fortune 10 mega corps in my career. Neither one had such a "formal" policy but while it was very tough to get into management w/o a degree, it was not impossible. I personally know of a couple that did it with only a HS education. They (like the folks with the degrees) had to develop and demonstrate their management skills over the years. Both of these companies "unwritten" policies were "who do we have that's the best fit for the job today". Once employed, advanced formal education was pretty far down on the list of criteria used for advancement. Although I certainly never saw anyone held back for having an advanced degree. It's usually a great tool set to have!!!
 
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I had lunch yesterday with some folks who live in an extremely wealthy neighborhood in Southern CA. It occurred to me as I listened to them talk about things they’re doing with their kids that it’s not surprising the rich get richer. These folks are taking their kids to Europe before college, because “they have to have that broadening cultural experience” before going off to college. They are sending their children to the best schools they can get into so they can build networks that will serve them well throughout their careers. The parents of these kids are obviously very successful financially and well-educated, and they help them a lot with homework and high school projects. It’s easy to understand why people growing up with high parental involvement, exposure to different cultures, and a focus on “meeting the right people” do better than many others.

The important part of this is the "high parental involvement" aspect. While I grew up in a struggling middle class family, and much of my younger years in what many here would consider an inner city ghetto, my parents were involved and did the equivalent of what these "rich" parents did with their meager resources. They made sure we knew the value of education, even though neither had college degrees (in fact my mother did not get her high school equivalency diploma until after all her kids had their college degrees). They read to use and encouraged us to read. Many weekends were spent in libraries and museums (all free), where, even though we could not visit those places, we read and saw about them, so we knew there was more to the world than our neighborhood. They attended every parent-teacher conference, they were involved in the PTA.

While we may not have been around "well-connected" kids, we learned that teachers will go out of their way to make connections for kids who show interest in their school work. My siblings and I had teachers who made connections for me and my siblings for summer jobs and college, including Ivy league colleges, primarily due to our academic efforts at school. And we knew that these were "luck" or "opportunities" (depending on your view) and took advantage of them. Not all of them turned out as we hoped - but we also learned to keep going because you just need one to turn out the way you hope (or in a way to did not anticipate).

And this may not be politically correct these days, but as immigrants, my parents wanted us to assimilate. English was not my Dad's first language, but he and my mother agreed he would not speak his native language around us while we were growing up, as they wanted to be sure that we had a solid foundation in English (and that foundation in fact helped advanced my career in the IT industry). They taught us the realities of the existence of prejudice and racism, but also not to use those things as an excuse to avoid achievement.

Also... when it comes to smarts, there are 'book smarts" and there are "street smarts"... and out parents made us aware of both. The latter IMHO is really more important. It is like playing a sport. You can get all the "book smarts" in the world by reading up on a sport and knowing all the rules, and the processes, etc. But when you actually get on the field and start playing is when you learn the "street smarts" of a situation and start learning how to react. I think that is where folks, again if guided properly, can improve their lot in life.
 
I grew up very poor and somehow, with the help of the GI Bill after Viet Nam, got through college with a mechanical engineering degree. Went to work as an engineer in a manufacturing plant. If I didn't ask for a management job after a couple of years of installing metal fabrication machinery, I would not be here.

I took the worst job in the company which was Production Superintendent in the ancient Detroit, Mi plant (no one wanted the job). After 4 successful years there, I moved up to Engineering Manager of the biggest plant in the company and then to Plant Manager of a 1,500 person plant. i got an MBA along the way. At that level, many other doors opened for me along the management career path.

Maybe coders can earn enough to retire on, but lowly engineers in manufacturing got stuck in jobs where things weren't changing as fast as in the digital world. Many of my early engineering friends and co-workers retired with little savings (or none at all) and are living on SS and part time jobs.
 
I grew up very poor and somehow, with the help of the GI Bill after Viet Nam, got through college with a mechanical engineering degree. Went to work as an engineer in a manufacturing plant. If I didn't ask for a management job after a couple of years of installing metal fabrication machinery, I would not be here.

Well done!

Both my parents were professionals and expected my brothers to get a formal education that led to a profession or leave home. They tolerated a lot of things like us smoking pot, playing in rock bands, drinking, as long as our grades did not suffer. They expected all of us to work part-time to pay for our education like they did. Once we graduated and found jobs, we had to leave home and learn to live on our own. Today I look around and see so many kids with so much more comfort and opportunity than I ever had that do absolutely nothing with their lives. Their parents don't seem to care or don't know what to do about. I guess there is a danger to making things too easy.
 
My personal opinion of that article and the research that went with it is that it was done with an agenda. - So now that we know it was all just luck, we need to redistribute the wealth.
Everything seems to have an agenda. Supposedly 80% of medical research is fallacious or deliberately corrupt. Is some article with major social meaning likely to be more honest? IMO, no. Living in Seattle I know how little reality matters to many people, once they get the social justice bit in their teeth. Also, many people have no concept of what is, and how it may differ from what they wish or pretend to wish.


Ha
 
I agree with you. You should visit Switzerland. You will see where the .01% of Americans educate their kids for that matter .01% of the world. Some of the private boarding schools take kids at pre-school age. If parents are sending their kids away that young you have to ask yourself, why have kids? These wealthy kids meet their peers from all over the world. If they don't get into trouble, they go on to the finest universities and move up the political and corporate ladder pretty fast ahead of the rest who had to work much harder. If they get do get into trouble, their wealthy parents move them to another school. Educating rich kids is big business in Switzerland.



Amazing. I didn’t know this. I don’t have kids, but if I did, I would not send them to boarding school even in the US, let alone out of the country. I’d rather have close relationships with them and do what I could for them at home.
 
Amazing. I didn’t know this. I don’t have kids, but if I did, I would not send them to boarding school even in the US, let alone out of the country. I’d rather have close relationships with them and do what I could for them at home.

This particular one is about a 5 minute drive from my in-laws home:

https://www.rosey.ch/

Tuition is about $130K per year. You need to be at least 7 years old to attend. Some parents are busy running their own empires and don't have time for their kids.
 
My wife is always telling me you have to be careful about what you wish for. I drove a truck for 26 years and was gone all the time. Most of the time I got home on weekends. But weekends are short aren't they?

Well, I was always wishing I could get off the road and be home more. Got my wish. Got a local job driving for a gas delivery company. But I worked nights. My wife slept nights. How dare her. I'd come home, she'd go to work. We pretty much only saw each other on weekends.

I'm getting to the point, I really am. I got hurt at work. Slipped on a manhole cover at one of the gas stations tore a meniscus in my left knee, about the same time got diagnosed with the Bi-polar and have never driven a truck since.

Got my wish. I'm home all the time now. But living below our means and a little bit of luck here and there, Got us to where we are today.
 
OMG, a fate worse than death :D

I went to a community college (to start with) and lived at home during undergraduate years. And here I am, a card-carrying FIREe.

Confession: I absolutely loved the junior college. It was like a high school do-over, only with more freedom and cuter guys. I was several months shy of 17 when I started, and they put me in all the advanced classes and treated me like some kind of girl genius :LOL:

In contrast, I grew up knowing that if I didn’t get a significant scholarship, I’d have to go to junior college and live at home. !
 
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Amazing. I didn’t know this. I don’t have kids, but if I did, I would not send them to boarding school even in the US, let alone out of the country. I’d rather have close relationships with them and do what I could for them at home.

I sent mine to NY Military Academy for HS. Boarding school just wasn't done in my upwardly-mobile middle-class family but DS was falling through the cracks in the public school system. When DS stayed with my parents for a couple of weeks after he enrolled, my mother couldn't believe how he made his bed, cleaned up after himself, etc. She said, "I'm beginning to think more of my grandchildren should have gone to NYMA". He eventually got a degree and has a good job and is LBYM. You do what you gotta do.

But- it does show the advantage of having involved parents. While I wasn't volunteering at his school or picking him up every day (I was a single mother and had to work for a living), I cared enough to get him the education he needed and deserved.
 
Kim Jong Un went to boarding school in Switzerland and look how well he's done!
 
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