Jordan/Covid

[Gearhead Jim]

For reasons too complicated to explain here, DW and I ended up booked for two overseas vacations this Fall.

The first was an 8 day river cruise in France, earlier this month. Despite having every Covid vaccination available by that time (6), we both developed strong Covid symptoms and confirmed by rapid test on the third day aboard the boat. We were in France, a modern industrialized country with good health care, so no problem, right? Wrong.
Getting Paxlovid (or anything else) for treatment took a full 24 hours and a lot of work and pushing on our part. Except for the boat spending two nights in one town and our persistence, we probably would have never received anything. Fortunately the drugs worked well and we recovered quickly to go home on time.

Now we are scheduled for 10 days in Jordan beginning at the end of October. Searching the web shows that Paxlovid is approved by the Jordanian CDC. But searching another travel web had people tell us that it's either not available at all, or only in a few large hospitals. Our group will be traveling around the country; Petra, one night in a Bedouin tent camp etc, and the tour company basically said that if we get sick, they drop us off at the next stop and we're on our own. With Paxlovid on hand, I'd consider that an acceptable risk even being in our late 70's. If we cancel this close to trip time, we'd lose a bunch of money.

Our family physician tells us she "can't" prescribe Paxlovid unless we are actually sick, so she's no help. All of the other treatments we might get have more side effects and marginal effectiveness.

Before I start searching around here, does anyone have ideas on how to get some Paxlovid to bring with us, to be used only if needed?
Thanks.

 

[audreyh1]

You are so close to your previous Covid bout it seems like you should be OK for a couple of months more at least.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

^^^^^

Nobody seems to quantify it, but people like us who have had recent Covid or recent vaccination are supposed to have increased resistance.

OTOH, DW got a bad case of Covid last year just 3 weeks after getting her first bivalent booster, and both of us got the recent case just 6 weeks after our second bivalent booster. So "increased resistance" impresses me a lot less than "Paxlovid".

 

[badatmath]

Forbes had an article recently saying paxlovid is not as good as they first thought. I guess it depends on your risk tolerance and health overall. Not that preventing death isn't a good goal, but I think most of us are trying to stay out of the hospital/not be miserable as much as anything.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willsk...ll-great-at-preventing-death/?sh=de6dcff3c44f

 

[TheWizard]

The side effects from Paxlovid are said to be worse than COVID itself.
Assuming you've been vaccinated seven times, like I have, I'd just skip it...

 

[Teacher Terry]

When I take a tour I make sure that in the event I get covid they take care of everything. This happened in Ireland and although they left me at the hotel they covered all my expenses and made all my arrangements home. I didn’t meet Ireland’s requirements to get paxlovid.

 

[Gallaher]

Can’t speak for Paxlovid (but if you’ve already had …)
Anyway, wife and I traveled Jordan on our own in April of this year.
Was great fun and scary. I don’t think I’d want to be sick there. Petra was awesome.
If I was not in good health I’d skip that trip.

 

[gattara]

Was great fun and scary. I don’t think I’d want to be sick there. Petra was awesome.
If I was not in good health I’d skip that trip.

Would you elaborate on your experience? I’m intrigued about the “scary” part. Scary, yet fun and awesome … don’t want to highjack this thread, but please tell us more!

 

[JoeWras]

Would you elaborate on your experience? I’m intrigued about the “scary” part. Scary, yet fun and awesome … don’t want to highjack this thread, but please tell us more!

I haven't been, although I think it would be a very cool trip. I've seen Jordan from the Israel/West Bank side at the baptismal site. The guards on the Israel side were around, but not in site. The guards on the Jordan side displayed their guns. Our tour leader said: if you go to the river and make an attempt to swim across, they will shoot you. Don't do it.

Despite how scary that sounds, it was a wonderfully inspiring place on our side, and looked just as equally inspiring from the other side. The river at this point is not wide. It was less than my typical 25 yard lap in the pool.

 

[donheff]

I saw Dr. Vin Gupta on NBC (or maybe Sanjay Gupta on CNN?) recommend that people take Paxlovid with them on trips. When we went to Antarctica our doctor wrote us Rx's, and we ended up using them. We took it with us to Italy later in the year but didn't need it.

 

[donheff]

Before I start searching around here, does anyone have ideas on how to get some Paxlovid to bring with us, to be used only if needed?
Thanks.

Sure. Call your doctor and tell them that you both started feeling sick yesterday and tested positive today. You would like to get Paxlovid ASAP while it can still be effective.

I didn't have to do that, but if you doctor insists, accommodate them.

 

[Gumby]

I haven't been, although I think it would be a very cool trip. I've seen Jordan from the Israel/West Bank side at the baptismal site. The guards on the Israel side were around, but not in site. The guards on the Jordan side displayed their guns. Our tour leader said: if you go to the river and make an attempt to swim across, they will shoot you. Don't do it.

Despite how scary that sounds, it was a wonderfully inspiring place on our side, and looked just as equally inspiring from the other side. The river at this point is not wide. It was less than my typical 25 yard lap in the pool.

We were in Jordan last November, and I didn't find it scary at all. Yes there were armed military and police in numbers not usually seen in the US, but far, far fewer than in Egypt.

 

[braumeister]

We were in Jordan last November, and I didn't find it scary at all. Yes there were armed military and police in numbers not usually seen in the US, but far, far fewer than in Egypt.

That seems to be a matter of personal perspective.
I remember once going to a country that had just experienced a military coup, and nearly every major intersection in the central part of the capital city had a machine gun emplacement with at least half a dozen armed soldiers at it. The military controlled everything, and civilian police were nowhere to be seen. I felt no fear, and citizens were doing their best to engage in business as usual. Life goes on, even under the most trying circumstances.

 

[Gumby]

That seems to be a matter of personal perspective.
I remember once going to a country that had just experienced a military coup, and nearly every major intersection in the central part of the capital city had a machine gun emplacement with at least half a dozen armed soldiers at it. The military controlled everything, and civilian police were nowhere to be seen. I felt no fear, and citizens were doing their best to engage in business as usual. Life goes on, even under the most trying circumstances.

Back in 1983, I went to Peru while in the Navy. The Shining Path guerillas were on the loose then, and there was a Guardia Nacional guy with a submachine gun on every corner. No problem for me.

 

[Gallaher]

Just to clarify.
The scary part of Jordan was driving. That’s all. Driving.
My wife and I crossed from Israel to Jordan at Eilat. No guide just us. Rented a car and started up the Kings Hiway to Petra. About 50 miles north of Eilat some guys on motorcycles tried to box us in. One guy actually put his hand on the fender of our car while we are driving 50 mph. I was wondering what he was doing until he touched the car. At that point I sped up made it clear I’d knock their @$$e$ of those motorcycles and they left us alone. Drove on for another 20 miles and see a road sign “Petra”. Turned right and traveled on a very windy road for about 50 miles. We thought we were lost. But we weren’t.
People were nice Petra beautiful. Our guide suggested we take the Kings Hiway all the way to Amman, glad we did. However, there were portions of the Hiway where we were driving in ally’s in small villages. Single track rutted roads.
Had a few other surprises on the way. Were particularly shocked when we were driving in Amman.
Scariest Drivers Ever! They are very aggressive drivers.
We’ve driven in several countries. in all countries I’ve driven in it is not too different than the USA. This is not the case in Jordan.
Another spectacular site was Jerash north of Amman.

My final comment on Jordan. It was much trashier than I expected. Those small blue plastic convince bags like you get at convenience stores were ubiquitous. They littered the country side. We saw nice homes in villages with piles of trash in the front yard….all over the place. Like it’s common practice

 

[JoeWras]

Back in 1983, I went to Peru while in the Navy. The Shining Path guerillas were on the loose then, and there was a Guardia Nacional guy with a submachine gun on every corner. No problem for me.

Then again, you had military training and spent time in small tube that could turn into a water coffin at any time.

Let's just say your perspective is a bit more hardened than the rest of us. And I say this with utmost respect for your service to our country. Thank you.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

Forbes had an article recently saying paxlovid is not as good as they first thought. I guess it depends on your risk tolerance and health overall. Not that preventing death isn't a good goal, but I think most of us are trying to stay out of the hospital/not be miserable as much as anything.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/willsk...ll-great-at-preventing-death/?sh=de6dcff3c44f

The article is behind a paywall, does anyone have a better link?

 

[Ian S]

The side effects from Paxlovid are said to be worse than COVID itself.
Assuming you've been vaccinated seven times, like I have, I'd just skip it...

Fully vaccinated/boosted prior to our trip to Europe and the UK in May. Started feeling sick just before our return flight home. 11.5 hour flight and I was quite miserable throughout it. Tested positive and started on Paxlovid the next day. Within 24 hours on the drug, the worst covid symptoms were subsiding but reduced sense of smell and taste hung around for a few weeks. If I were traveling again, I'd try to bring Paxlovid with me just in case. Really the only side effect I could attribute to the Paxlovid was an unpleasant taste (maybe my reduced sense of taste made that side effect easier to put up with.) Now, if someone wants avoid taking Paxlovid and just tough it out for a week at home, OK fine but on a trip why have your vacation or a significant portion of it ruined by covid symptoms when Paxlovid can reduce them quickly? Of course, YMMV.

 

[Gearhead Jim]

"...why have your vacation or a significant portion of it ruined by covid symptoms..."

And dying from Covid really ruins your vacation.

 

[Ian S]

The article is behind a paywall, does anyone have a better link?

The link worked for me. Key points:

Paxlovid—Pfizer’s antiviral Covid-19 treatment—is 37% effective at preventing hospitalization or death in high-risk patients compared with no treatment, according to a study published Thursday in the JAMA Network Open, well below the 88% effectiveness rate Pfizer and regulators reported in clinical trials

But there's a bit of a comparison problem:

Why the effectiveness has fallen. The study authors noted the clinical trials were conducted among unvaccinated patients who had limited natural immunity, whereas this study was conducted in a real-world population including vaccinated and previously infected patients who had some other defenses against the coronavirus. They also noted the original clinical studies were completed when the Delta variant was the most common strain of the virus while their study was conducted when the Omicron variant was, suggesting that the drug could work differently with different strains.

It's unfortunate the study didn't have a control for the unvaccinated. Still the effectiveness looking at death alone is still 84%

 

[Ian S]

"...why have your vacation or a significant portion of it ruined by covid symptoms..."

And dying from Covid really ruins your vacation.

Indeed!!

 

[Gearhead Jim]

^^^^^
Thanks.
84% less death still sounds like a good thing.