Kiyosaki

[PsyopRanger]

Hey spidey join in the foreworks.

I personally blame Bill Gates, he is a liar and a con man.

I read his book on building a progressive business and it didn’t work for me, so he is a liar and is cheating people out of money. Not to mention his crappy Windows XP program.

This is the mentality?

Oh yeah, and that Ron Legrand guy, he sells books too. No one ever retires using real estate investing.

 

[Nords]

I was about to say that I agree wholeheartedly. Then I realized it's a worse situation than Kiyosaki providing no specific financial advice. He provides vague financial advice that is frequently incorrect or at the least misleading. Follow K's advice to your own detriment.
Anecdotally speaking, the only two people I've personally known to be Kiyosaki followers and take his advice had negative outcomes.
My brother's idea that only idiots go to college was reinforced by Kiyosaki's book.

Well, see, that's the problem-- they're just not following his advice in the right manner!

Nord
   Why do you believe that RK lied about his military record ?? Oh thats right Reed posted it on the web. If you read what Reed wrote he couldnt find any evidence and therefore it must not be true. Yeah thats great logic 

There's enough excerpts from Kiyosaki's record for veterans to see that considerable "embellishment" has taken place between his actual service and his RDPD claims.

We're not in a court of law and I'm not gonna pick nits with you, Spidey, but I notice that Kiyosaki hasn't bothered to clarify his record either... that's enough for me.

 

[PsyopRanger]

Again, putting Kiyosaki the person aside.

How are these principles wrong?

Pay off debt and invest in assets

Get an education about investing

Use due diligence in investing

Leverage debt to buy assets

Use a business or entity for tax deduction and retirement planning options

 

[Cut-Throat]

Again, putting Kiyosaki the person aside.

How are these principles wrong?

Pay off debt and invest in assets

Get an education about investing

Use due diligence in investing

Leverage debt to buy assets

Use a business or entity for tax deduction and retirement planning options

These are not necessarily wrong, but then again these are not the only thing that this wacko proposes. If it was, he wouldn't have so many enemies.

 

[PsyopRanger]

Okay, in this boards opinion, Kiyosaki is the lying anti-Christ.
I won't mention him anymore.

Who is acceptable to quote and believe then?

 

[2B]

Okay, in this boards opinion, Kiyosaki is the lying anti-Christ.
I won't mention him anymore.

Who is acceptable to quote and believe then?   

Since you're new here I'll tell you -- Yourself.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Remember that part I said about not getting pissy?

Let me finish this up.

Hitler had some good ideas too, before all those bad ones.



Even though by law, we're unable to continue due to godwins law being invoked, its an interesting dialog...

 

[Nords]

Who is acceptable to quote and believe then?   

Well, you're gonna have to make up your own mind about that.

Bernstein's "Four Pillars" is pretty popular for asset allocation. Bob Clyatt's "Work Less, Live More" is selling well too. Then there's the Bogle stuff, Siegel, Dimson, Gilovich, Terhorst, the Kaderlis, and even the timeless parts of Joe Dominguez' book.

The board has some active investors. We're probably outnumbered by the passive investors about 10:1, but that's also because over the last two-three decades the passive investors have noticed that their active-investing results haven't outperformed the passive investors. The active investors are doing it with plenty of work, research, hard thinking, and not a few painful learning experiences.

Go read Unclemick's ruminations about Bogle, testosterone, and the Norwegian widow's dividend investing. UM is also widely quoted.

I'm finding that I'd rather be spending time with my family and surfing than putting in the time to run an active investment portfolio. Money's nice, but enough is enough when it starts to cut into good surf...

 

[PsyopRanger]

Since you're new here I'll tell you -- Yourself.

But my investing style has been shot down as "risky" and "market timing"

I have posted my current holdings and it is my intention to continue to update there progress.

 

[2B]

Even though by law, we're unable to continue due to godwins law being invoked, its an interesting dialog...

godwins law?

 

[PsyopRanger]

Good points, Thanks Nords.

 

[PsyopRanger]

godwins law?

As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches.

 

[Cool Dood]

Who is acceptable to quote and believe then?

Anyone who's not a lying sleazebag huckster with little or nothing of value to offer.

That pretty much reduces it to around six billion people, sorry Kiyosaki didn't make the cut.

In all seriousness, it sounds like you're smarter, more knowledgeable and more able in general than Kiyosaki, so I don't see why you'd even bother referring to him ...even if he did in one way or another influence you at some point. You'd be better off -- and get a better reception here -- if you sat down and wrote out a bunch of your own thoughts on the matter, then when you needed to quote or refer to somebody while posting here, you could pull out one of your own lines and pass it off as some brilliant guru who inspired you to be the man you are today.

 

[Nords]

But my investing style has been shot down as "risky" and "market timing"

Highly volatile, risk of losing one's principal, and dependent upon price movement.  Yup, that pretty much meets the definitions of "risky" & "market timing".  Not that there's anything wrong with that, unless you've been deluded by O'Neill & RK into claiming that it's otherwise?  

I have posted my current holdings and it is my intention to continue to update there progress.

That's pretty popular:
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=8442.0
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=8190.0
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=7766.0

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

godwins law?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

 

[spideyrdpd]

Actually it pisses me off when someone compares something trivial to the mass murder of millions
Call me crazy 8)

What do they call it when an argument gets really technical ? Like when they say the guy is a slime ball and a slease bucket?
I wonder what you guys call Suze O.
The waitress giving out professional advice ?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yeah, I dont think old Suze has a lot of fans around here either.

You do understand that the 'hitler/godwin' thing was a joke, right?

Basically you guys just ran into Temple with a big plate of scallops wrapped in bacon. Might be good stuff, but I wouldnt expect a lot of takers or a warm reception.

 

[PsyopRanger]

Highly volatile, risk of losing one's principal, and dependent upon price movement. Yup, that pretty much meets the definitions of "risky" & "market timing". Not that there's anything wrong with that, unless you've been deluded by O'Neill & RK into claiming that it's otherwise?

How is my Dow Jones Titans Index Fund with a 10% stop loss risky? Anyone who loses ones principle is not stopping losses? An investment based upon price movement is risky? Isn't that what investments do, move up and down?

Do you invest in investments that do not depend upon some price moving?

I would like to learn more?

 

[spideyrdpd]

You most of missed the post that said they only invest in things going up .
I think it had something to do with Viagra.

Is there a law that said every post will eventually have some reference to sex ?

 

[brewer12345]

How is my Dow Jones Titans Index Fund with a 10% stop loss risky?  Anyone who loses ones principle is not stopping losses?  An investment based upon price movement is risky?  Isn't that what investments do, move up and down?

Do you invest in investments that do not depend upon some price moving?

I would like to learn more?

Hold your horses. Remember this board is "early retirement forum". That means a lot of the participants are retirted and are more interested in controlling risk than shooting the moon. If you like risky stuff as a means to hopefully accelerate FIRE, that's great. So do I, although I wouldn't touch 3/4 of the stuff in your portfolio with someone else's stick. If you post your portfolio stuff on "Young Dreamers", I suspect you will get a more receptive ear.

 

[PsyopRanger]

Hold your horses. Remember this board is "early retirement forum". That means a lot of the participants are retirted and are more interested in controlling risk than shooting the moon. If you like risky stuff as a means to hopefully accelerate FIRE, that's great. So do I, although I wouldn't touch 3/4 of the stuff in your portfolio with someone else's stick. If you post your portfolio stuff on "Young Dreamers", I suspect you will get a more receptive ear.

I am seeing the disconnect, thanks Brewer.

 

[free4now]

How is my Dow Jones Titans Index Fund with a 10% stop loss risky? 
...
I would like to learn more?

Stop loss orders don't solve the problem of volatility. There are a number of scenarios in which the person using stop loss orders winds up losing more money than someone without them. A sideways market is probably the worst for stop loss orders.

Imagine this scenario: You buy at a price of 100 and set a stop loss order at 90. The stock quickly dips down to 85 and then quickly shoots back up to 100. Now if you hadn't placed that stop loss order you would hold a stock that you could sell for 100, but because of the stop loss you sold for 90. So you lost 10% of your value almost instantly. If that kind of scenario plays out lots of times and you lose 10% each time relative to the buy and holder, pretty soon you will start to see the risk become real.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

but because of the stop loss you sold for 90

Or for 85, because while the stop-loss triggered at 90, the market order issued by the stop loss didnt get executed at 90, it got bitten on at 85.

Your scenario is called a "run on a stop loss", usually followed by the word "failure"...

Thanks for sticking with us psyop...we're a tough crowd and as brewer points out, there are some contextual problems.

 

[al_bundy]

An acquaintance just attended a free 3 day intensive at:

www.millionairemind.com

and gushed about how everyone should go.  He couldn't stop talking about how motivating it was to get to a place where money wasn't an issue.  But when I asked him what was the one takeaway idea he learned, he just said it was really motivating.

That seems to be the Kiyosaki approach as well:  Get people psyched up to make progress with money, but don't give any good advice about what to actually do.  People feel the excitement and confuse it with progress.

someone gave my wife his book and i read it last year. At least he made millions of $$$ in his own business before lecturing. Kiyosaki never had a successful business.

I actually like millionairemind because he doesn't tell you how to make money, but tells you how to think and teaches you to recognize money losing skills you may have learned from your parents. He tells you to get into the right frame of mind, pick something you are good at, work hard at it and look at how you view money since some of his students made millions of $$$ even before going to his seminars but frittered it all away.

 

[al_bundy]

Highly volatile, risk of losing one's principal, and dependent upon price movement.  Yup, that pretty much meets the definitions of "risky" & "market timing".  Not that there's anything wrong with that, unless you've been deluded by O'Neill & RK into claiming that it's otherwise?  
That's pretty popular:
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=8442.0
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=8190.0
http://early-retirement.org/forums/index.php?topic=7766.0

O'Neill says in his book that investing in stocks is extremely risky, but unlike others he was a very successful investor and stock broker before starting his research company. If you look at 1000 charts of stocks going up, on the vast majority of them you will see the basic patterns that he teaches.

Otherwise his system is simple. Find new companies that are growing earnings and revenues at more than 25%, ROE is at least 18% and the stock is rising. You want the top 2% of the most profitable companies out there. You buy when the market is heading up and you only buy when it breaks out of a consolidation phase on heavy volume since that means institutions are loading up. And since statistically most people choose more losers than winners you sell at 8% loss and you can still make double digit gains yearly.

plenty of people out there, but Bill O'Neill is one of the few who has made a lot of money with his system and his company has been right about calling market tops and bottoms for the last 25 years more than anyone else. And he did warn people back in 2000 to take their money out of stocks, several times.