Line in the sand

I've had very good results with a carnivore ketogenic way of eating. I've been doing it for nearly two years and feel better than I have in decades. Lost 40 pounds with no effort, came off a couple of bp meds, and just feel much better and healthier. Better mood, sharper mind, steadier energy levels, better health all around.

I wish you the best.
 
harley said:
I second the use of IF for controlling heartburn. One of our main reasons for starting it was DW's really bad GERD. She couldn't sleep through the night without waking up choking. She started Omeprazole(?) which helped, but the IF with us not eating after 8 pm made the big difference and she was able to stop the meds.

We've both plateaued with our weight for the last 6 months or so, and we would both like to drop another 10-20 lbs. So we've got to figure that out. With the LCHF and IF we haven't really paid any attention to how much we eat, just what we eat. I guess we'll have to throw in a little calorie restriction and/or exercise to get over that last hump. But all of our medical conditions are so much better that we feel victorious, even if we don't lose another lb.
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Sounds like my experience, also DH's. I do however, provide something sweet before 7pm (nothing big- maybe berries, yogurt, popcorn). We have a serious sweet tooth.

aja8888 said:
Exactly, that's what it was for me 10 years ago when I stopped the booze. Oh, throw in some wine, too! :D

That was a very easy 20 pound loss! :D
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Indeed, it was an early bonus for DH & I when we quit drinking. The lack of the empty calories & (mainly from wine) food eaten until bed time melted those LBs. I was shocked at what a diff it made & & I am off of 2 meds for BP = bonus!
 
Ed_The_Gypsy said:
Resting BP seems to be down.
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Awesome!

Mine came in nice and low yesterday - 103/77. Surprised me because I have been quite stressed about this virus business which has interfered with my ability to visit my ill DF and we've been making huge changes in travel plans at very short notice.
 
Nemo2 said:
Am I the only one who, reading this (and similar) thread(s), wonders about perspective? 20 lbs, if you're 4 feet 11 inches tall, is a little different than 20 lbs if you're 6 feet 7 inches.
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Good point. I am now 5'-8" tall according to my doc. I used to be 5'-10" tall. All rough numbers, but I ain't gettin' any taller. :)
 
Ed_The_Gypsy said:
Darn. I just read that the first 20 lbs really are only water. Good thing I know this will take a long time.
P.S.: A1c = 5.1 last week.
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Having thought about this a little, it occurred to me that after the bowels are voided for the last time (from experience, about 5 pounds for me) entering a fast, ALL of future weight loss will be via lungs (CO2) and bladder (H2O). You will have to drink adequate water on top of that of course, but there will be a net loss. If memory serves, expending 3500 calories (kilocalories, actually) equals about 1 pound of weight loss. It is said that the average adult needs 2000 calories per day, but for my starting weight, it is more like 3500/day.

Update: I am on day 5 of an extended fast and considering continuing for a few more days. As of this morning, I am down 22 pounds from my starting weight of 300 pounds :) and have lots of ketones in my blood (using test strips). Oddly enough, my balance has improved over the last 6 months. Unknown if there is any connection.

I am not going to call this a keto diet, rather a "Maduro diet". (A friend calls it the "Auschwitz diet".) The only way I am going to lose weight will be as my doc in Baku told me: "Stop drinking, stop eating, start walking." He knew what he was talking about. :cool:
 
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Old Microbiologist said:
Ed - you are on the right track....
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Thanks, OM!

My objective is simply weight loss, but I am intrigued by the possibilities. For example, I have had lots of floaters since I was a kid. The other health benefits would be a welcome bonus.

The benefits you have experienced in only 3 months is truly impressive and very encouraging. I am not up to your exercise regimen, but I can do serious fasting which may compensate.
 
audreyh1 said:
...US medical doctors are not trained at all to treat through nutrition, so are grossly unprepared to effectively treat these chronic diseases of lifestyle that dominate US medical resources.
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There is another impediment. A doctor once told me that they are warned never to tell a patient straight out:
A) they are fat, or
B) that they need counseling (i.e., "you're crazy").

I guess we have to figure it out for ourselves. But isn't that how life really is?
 
My balance is better too. It's just a change in center of gravity (since my weight loss was mostly abominal fat) and less weight for my core muscles to manage. However, if I close my eyes and stand on one foot I still fall over.
 
Ed_The_Gypsy said:
Having thought about this a little, it occurred to me that after the bowels are voided for the last time (from experience, about 5 pounds for me) entering a fast, ALL of future weight loss will be via lungs (CO2) and bladder (H2O). You will have to drink adequate water on top of that of course, but there will be a net loss. If memory serves, expending 3500 calories (kilocalories, actually) equals about 1 pound of weight loss. It is said that the average adult needs 2000 calories per day, but for my starting weight, it is more like 3500/day.
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Since you mention CO2, H2O etc, this video was posted here a while ago:
 
Had a treadmill stress test yesterday. The nurse/operator said it looked good.

I have also learned that there are 2 kinds of fasting: a water fast (what I have been doing) and something else (one meal a day? every other day? i.e., iimited caloric intake).

I have been doing about one multi-day water fast a week and 2-4 zero carb meals per week. Starting one again today. I hope to make 5 days. Various sources say that autophagy can start in 24-48 hours in a ketosis state.


The mall is closed entirely now. Need to find another way to exercise regularly.
 
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update

I extended my water fast to 10 days which ended today. Looking back, I was 300# on Feb 4 and 280# when I started my latest fast. Now 267#, another 13# (total loss of 33# from the beginning. My blood was full of ketones all the time and even after I broke my fast (deep purple on the urine sticks). Never had a problem with hunger or anything else. This morning, BP = 129/74 pulse 78. (A video on kidney disease said that 130/80 was "great". High BP and diabetes cause kidney failure.)

I have been following a couple of doctors on Youtube covering the epidemic. If I understand correctly, both say that 20% of the people testing positive are expected to be admitted to hospital. Of those, some will go on ventilator and the mortality rate on ventilator is about 70-85%. Both agree that obesity is the biggest single risk factor for death at that point. If you go on ventilator with a BMI > 40, you will come out feet first. (as an aside, hospitals will only do kidney transplants on people with a BMI = 35 or less.) Today, my BMI = about 40.6. (Healthy BMI = 18.5 to 24.9. Overweight = 25 to29.9. Obese = 30-39. Morbidly obese [me] = 40+.)

I have a long way to go but it looks like a good start. I will try one zero carb meal a day for a while.

I have requested a Coronary Artery Calcium test for DW and me. Time to learn our situation is today.
 
Ed that is great news and some good progress. Personally, I went to a 16:8 intermittent fasting, then went from 2 weeks of that to one meal a day and 1500 calories plus between 600 to 1200 calories exercise (alternating hard and soft days). I started at 200 pounds and am now at 175 which is where I want to be. I have moved to a 20:4 intermittent fasting so I get a smaller meal heavy on protein earlier so the main meal isn't so large. I am still staying at the same 1500 calories and workout schedule and am maintaining and not gaining. I eat less than 50 grams of carbohydrate per day and have kept that up since January. No clue what my numbers are as it is impossible to get tested now. I do see higher endurance when out hiking in the forests and my VO2 max is noticeably higher. I have a short but severe 4 km hike and about 2 KM is a 45 degree incline which is what I use for my cardiac stress test. I can do it fine without getting out of breath and needing to stop. I had to rest at least twice before starting the keto diet so this is my main measurement of improvement.

The weird thing for me is having to force myself to eat more to avoid the starvation effect which shifts metabolism to far. I also notice if I eat way too much I don't gain anything. This makes sense in terms of insulin and glucose. Not ever exceeding the magic 100 mg/dl glucose level you never induce any insulin secretion (once fat adapted). To store fat requires insulin so without it you just simply can't make any fat. The excess is apparently handled by the body simply raising metabolism levels and pushing excess out through the urine and bile. I had always wondered about his and have now seen it in myself so it is kind of strange and counter-intuitive. I will continue the keto diet for the rest of my life. I do miss some stuff and made some replacements which after having no sugar for long enough taste just fine if you have a craving for something like candy or bread. The keto alternatives seem okay enough. I make a coconut oil candy by melting half a cup and adding 1/3 a cup of cocoa powder and 1/3 cup of erythritol and pour that into ice cube trays each compartment with 4 almonds in it. Put it in the fridge until it solidifies and then pop them out. It tastes fine and gives your brain the comfort it is asking for without breaking the keto diet. Yes, I still get some cravings despite what they say out there which means I am still producing some insulin still. I think the body does it in anticipation of eating anything. I know it actually has no effect as my urine is still positive for ketones every day and I haven't gained any weight at all since hitting my goal weight. I don't lose either so have reached a steady state.

My BP is 115/70 and resting heart rate 52. I also have excellent heart rate recovery. No clue about the rest but maybe when this coronavirus ends I can get those tested and see where I am at. I think I will be happy with the results.

As for your interpretation of COVID-19 and obesity. I worked the numbers as well and came up with similar results. The obesity seems to be related to diabetes. I will caution you though that BMI is somewhat misleading and is only meant to serve as a guide. I am a BMI of 24 which is overweight yet my body fat is 15% by caliper plus I can see my six pack which becomes apparent at 15% BF. But, I am very athletic and have been my whole life. I was a skinny person until about age 55 when my metabolism changed and I started gaining weight.

I think with COVID-19 it is eventually going to work out that 60-65% are asymptomatic. Of the remaining 40% about half end up in the hospital and roughly 17% develop ARDS. I see different numbers for ventilators depending where you look. The worst published report is 30 out of 31 died. For extracorporeal oxygenation it is 99% death. So, if you get put onto a ventilator the chances of survival are poor. This may change as they gain experience or could get much worse as the system is overwhelmed and more and more medical staff succumb to the virus themselves.

So, hard advice to those who are obese to start now to lose weight and make permanent changes. This virus will not be contained and will eventually infect everyone and it cares not who you are. It is not too late to start and it could save your life.
 
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I think with COVID-19 it is eventually going to work out that 60-65% are asymptomatic. Of the remaining 40% about half end up in the hospital and roughly 17% develop ARDS. I see different numbers for ventilators depending where you look. The worst published report is 30 out of 31 died. For extracorporeal oxygenation it is 99% death. So, if you get put onto a ventilator the chances of survival are poor. This may change as they gain experience or could get much worse as the system is overwhelmed and more and more medical staff succumb to the virus themselves.

So, hard advice to those who are obese to start now to lose weight and make permanent changes. This virus will not be contained and will eventually infect everyone and it cares not who you are. It is not too late to start and it could save your life.

Wow some sobering advice right there. Sadly our country is filled with obese people of all ages, I know some states have an obesity rate of 35%. I'm not sure people have time make the changes needed before the hammer falls.
 
OP: Nothing succeeds like success, so kudos to you on your achievement to date. Can this be sustained, though, for the rest of your life? 10 day water fast on a regular basis seems, to me, not a good thing. I genuinely wish you the best, and continued success.

Re: Obesity As a former 50-pound-overweight person, I can attest that all obese people know they need to lose weight. It's easy to tell them they have to lose weight to get healthy, especially now. But doing it can be difficult to virtually impossible for many. The mental aspect is what makes it tough.
FWIW, what helped me make the final successful push to be rid of the weight was somewhat philosophical. I strove to lose ANY weight via diet and exercise, figuring 10 pounds, 15, whatever is better than my starting number. Momentum ultimately took over, as well as my overall attitude towards food (and junk food). I lived in a gIass house so never judge anyone because of an inability to lose weight. If ever I am asked, I tell anyone starting a diet to take it a day at a time, and look to improve their overall health and weight, at whatever level they can achieve.
Incidentally, I should probably take off another 10 pounds or so (5'9, 178) but for me I would be unable to keep that off.
 
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Ed, this is very good news and I commend you for taking charge of your personal health. It feels good, doesn't it?
 
Thanks to all for your support. :flowers: Positive feedback is very welcome.

FYI, my resting BP this morning is 118/78 @87. :)

Since starting, there have been no overwhelming cravings. I suppose that is because I took care to have my blood full of ketones before starting the fast. Add to that my mental state and determination. Can I keep this up? Only time will tell, but I am optimistic. I now look at alcohol, sugar and carbohydrates as poison. Sugar and carbs are easy to forego but I will miss the blueberries and the red wine. But upon reflection, some of the wine was not all that good.

I am anticipating other benefits. For example, improved mental acuity. DW says she has seen no evidence of that so far. :blush: Still have floaters in the eyes, but age spots on the back of my hands are fading! One strong motivation was reading of a European study that discovered by accident that reducing blood pressure by ANY means significantly improved the chances of not getting dementia.
 
another update

Just viewed a new video by one of the doctors I follow. The updated age for poor outcome is now 60, down from 80. The updated BMI for bad outcome (doctor-speak for 'dead') is 30 or 30# overweight.

They lowered to bar on me. :facepalm:

Cheers
 
Ed_The_Gypsy said:
Weight loss is stalled for a bit.

Sensation is improving in the soles of my feet. How about that? [emoji16]
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Not that surprising. Neuropathy is associated with excess fat in the liver and kidneys. Lower your blood insulin and internal organs are able to shed fatty deposits, allowing those organs to heal. Fatty liver seems to resolve very quickly.

Kidney disease more complex but definitely associated with neuropathy. High blood pressure is damaging to kidneys. Peripheral neuropathy in general is associated with high levels of blood sugar and is a common side effect of type 2 diabetes.

Dr. Fung, being a nephrologist, would be a good source for improved kidney function or neuropathy associated with low blood insulin and intermittent fasting.
 
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