Make a Power Move?

[NW-Bound]

The cause of the devastating Camp Fire in the town of Paradise last year was both transmission line and distribution line. The two fires merged into one.

In its announcement, Cal Fire said the fire started Nov. 8, 2019 near the community of Pulga. “After a very meticulous and thorough investigation, Cal Fire has determined that the Camp Fire was caused by electrical transmission lines owned and operated by Pacific Gas and Electricity located in the Pulga area.”

“The tinder dry vegetation and Red Flag conditions consisting of strong winds, low humidity and warm temperatures promoted this fire and caused extreme rates of spread, rapidly burning into Pulga to the east and west into Concow, Paradise, Magalia and the outskirts of east Chico.”

Cal Fire identified a second ignition site, caused by “vegetation into electrical distribution lines owned and operated by PG&E.” That fire merged into the original fire, officials said.

See: https://www.sacbee.com/news/local/article230445554.html.

Many recent smaller fires were caused by distribution lines.

 

[NW-Bound]

When the wind picks up, the lower-height distribution lines are often cut off first. The taller transmission lines are turned off at higher wind speeds.

Bill Johnson, PG&E Corporation’s chief executive, said at a news conference Thursday night that based on the utility’s analysis, the wind forecast did not warrant cutting power to the transmission lines in the area of the Kincade Fire, even though the distribution system had been shut down.

San Diego Gas & Electric, which pioneered the strategy of cutting power as a wildfire safety measure, said it also typically cut power only to the distribution lines, unless extreme weather warrants stopping electricity flow through transmission lines...

See: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/26/us/Kincade-Fire-Sonoma-California.html

 

[Oakster]

Tomorrow we may have to evacuate the third-world country that we live in, and we might contact a real estate agent to see if we want to make the evacuation permanent.

There's no reliable power here.

Reliable power in the US may be a thing of the past too. Coal is the only thing keeping it steady and Americans are bound and determined to stop that. We should be selling cleaner coal from the Powder River Basin globally to help reduce emissions over the dirtier coal many countries are using.

 

[Oakster]

Tomorrow we may have to evacuate the third-world country that we live in, and we might contact a real estate agent to see if we want to make the evacuation permanent.

There's no reliable power here.

I read a few of the comments after your initial post. It appears you are making a funny joke about California... I get it now, and agree with your move.

 

[Oakster]

I’ve lived in California my entire life, and I have noticed the climate has gradually changed. Summers are hotter (inland) and the dry season now lasts longer. It used to be the rains started in October, coinciding with some windy days. Now, the windy days still occur in the fall, but the rains don’t seem to come until well into December. It makes the months of October and November extremely dry and still windy. The mega-fires that have occurred in recent years seem to, at least in part, reflect the noticeable climate change.

Why would anyone still want to live in California? Well, the whole state is not big cities like Los Angeles or San Francisco. There are still beautiful areas with lakes, streams, forested mountains, the Pacific Ocean coastline along with some very nice weather. I have sometimes thought about moving to another part of the country after retiring. But this state feels like home. And I am fortunate to be living in a city that is not served by PG&E which is currently shutting down power to neighboring communities due to forecasts of high winds, while my power remains on. If I were subject to PG&E’s power shutdowns (which last for days, not hours), I would consider relocating too.

Not sure you can pin that on climate change. Wyoming use to be an ocean, the planet has been both warmer and colder. It may very well be climate change, but not necessarily MAN MADE climate change.

 

[unclemick]

If one of the main problems is brush along the distribution lines, I'd think PG&E would bring in about a thousand workers and do it right away.

Yes, California is a terrible place and no one should move here, especially the lower population north coast.

Right!

Especially my Sisters kids - instead of California they could be raising their families back in paradise where they grew up - Vermont.

heh heh heh - who was that Oregon governor - 'come visit but don't stay'. I'm paraphrasing.

 

[homestead]

Right!

Especially my Sisters kids - instead of California they could be raising their families back in paradise where they grew up - Vermont.

heh heh heh - who was that Oregon governor - 'come visit but don't stay'. I'm paraphrasing.

Governor Tom McCall invited tourists to visit Oregon, but then added "but for heaven's sake don't stay."

 

[jimbee]

Reliable power in the US may be a thing of the past too. Coal is the only thing keeping it steady ...

Not according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

 

[Oakster]

Not according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3

What is on that list that you can quickly gear up and replace all the coal fired power plants that people want to take off system. Natural gas is the only thing that is quickly available. Pretty challenging to build a new nuclear power plant and the tech isn't there for renewables to pick up 27% of the total coal usage.

 

[jimbee]

What is on that list that you can quickly gear up and replace all the coal fired power plants that people want to take off system. Natural gas is the only thing that is quickly available. Pretty challenging to build a new nuclear power plant and the tech isn't there for renewables to pick up 27% of the total coal usage.

You said coal is the only thing keeping it steady. That is not correct based on US EIA data. That is all.

Or I don't understand what you mean by "keeping it steady".

 

[Winemaker]

You said coal is the only thing keeping it steady. That is not correct based on US EIA data. That is all.

Or I don't understand what you mean by "keeping it steady".

Coal provides a controlled burn factor that is relatively close by in terms of inventory, access to that inventory, ability to transport, and heat/BTU/thermal output. A spike in demand is easily fulfilled by backing the dozer up on the stockpile and giving another push, provided there is a stockpile there. It has been there for over 75 years; we pay 5.78 cents per KWH in these parts.

Natural gas is currently experiencing a great uptick as a utility fuel. It is extremely cheap, cleaner burning and is easily accessible. But it is only a 10" valve away. There are no large storage facilities, pipelines are not infallible, the NIMBY crowd is fighting them tooth and nail, and God forbid, targets for widespread disruption.

 

[jimbee]

Actually, there are large natural gas storage facilities. Here is a map.

 

[Winemaker]

Yes, those are storage facilities. UNDERGROUND storage facilities. The natural gas is piped to large permeable sandstone formations and pumped back underground, where it is then piped to end users. I have mined coal under those facilities at times during my w*rking days. It is not stored on site by the end users, creating a vulnerability.

 

[jimbee]

Yes, those are storage facilities. UNDERGROUND storage facilities. The natural gas is piped to large permeable sandstone formations and pumped back underground, where it is then piped to end users. I have mined coal under those facilities at times during my w*rking days. It is not stored on site by the end users, creating a vulnerability.

Now I understand.

 

[Gumby]

Now I understand.

And I was an engineer at a nuclear power station. Our respective previous employment does not automatically invalidate Winemaker's position on coal nor mine on nuclear. If you have a substantive argument, you should make that, instead of going for the ad hominem.

 

[marko]

Not to start a discussion on it, but back in 5th grade 60 years ago I remember our teacher explaining that where we lived in Boston had been much warmer 1000 years ago and that things got suddenly much colder around then.

She went on to say that we were emerging from The Little Ice Age and to expect warmer years ahead and much different weather. She even predicted that Cape Cod would be washed away in another 1000 years as it had been a recent arrival.

Not sure you can pin that on climate change. Wyoming use to be an ocean, the planet has been both warmer and colder. It may very well be climate change, but not necessarily MAN MADE climate change.

 

[jimbee]

And I was an engineer at a nuclear power station. Our respective previous employment does not automatically invalidate Winemaker's position on coal nor mine on nuclear. If you have a substantive argument, you should make that, instead of going for the ad hominem.

I was also an engineer at a nuclear power station. I did not intend an ad hominem attack or intend to invalidate an opinion, I just felt I better understood where Winemaker was coming from. I apologize.

 

[Gumby]

If I were replacing coal for baseload, I'd go with nuclear. Hydropower is also good for baseload, but I suspect we have about as much of that as we ever will. Natural gas is better for peaking plants (and, of course, for industrial processes or for direct use in home heating).

While I agree with Winemaker that natural gas supplies to electric power plants are not kept on site and therefore more vulnerable to interruption than the coal pile at a coal plant, that pile will diminish pretty quickly if the trains stop running for any reason. In a sufficiently large natural or man-made disaster, all power supplies are at risk.

 

[ncbill]

Natural gas-fired power plants get built (& coal-fired get converted to natural gas) because that's the cheapest option.

Most of the companies (or their subsidiaries) that knew how to build nuclear power plants have gone out of business, halting any realistic hope of a nuclear power renaissance.

I don't see anyone coming along with a solution for the above...while there are a few utilities that are still trying to soldier on with plants currently under construction they are in all likelihood going to end up abandoning those as well & charging billion of dollars in write-offs to their customers.

My own utility charged its customers hundreds of millions for a proposed nuclear plant that was abandoned before even beginning construction.

 

[ElizabethT]

Despite what the out-of-state folks think, I believe most Californians are happy with their state overall. If we start to see another Prop 13 type of movement, that will be different.

Yep. Wildfires are part of the fabric of our state, as is the year round outdoor weather and 800+ miles of coastline.

I'll be kayaking in the ocean in shorts today under 75 degree temps, hoping to see sea lions and dolphins. And I will likely be doing the same all this coming winter. That is pretty hard for us, and many others, to put a price on, and the primary reason we will likely never leave. Which, by the way, we can easily afford to, as can most everyone we associate with here in Coastal S. California.

If there is another state that can offer the same year-round outdoor lifestyle at a similar or lower cost, I'm all ears. So far we have traveled to @ 40 of our 50 states and haven't yet found it. We've encountered fabulous lifestyles for a PORTION of the year for sure. But year-round? No, not so far.

The comments here have been incredibly interesting, often entertaining. California . . . it's not for everyone, that is for sure. It's great that those of you that dislike it have 49 other options. ?

 

[marko]

Yes. I lived in N Cal in the early 80s and it is great!

But as you say, it's not a place for those who are not wealthy however. But is sure is the good life for those who can afford it. For the working class, not so much

I'll be kayaking in the ocean in shorts today under 75 degree temps, hoping to see sea lions and dolphins. And I will likely be doing the same all this coming winter. That is pretty hard for us, and many others, to put a price on, and the primary reason we will likely never leave. Which, by the way, we can easily afford to, as can most everyone we associate with here in Coastal S. California.
]

 

[HFWR]

Thanks to all who have pointed to coal as the “solution” to all our problems. Glad that CO2 thing is a hoax...

 

[Chuckanut]

Most of the companies (or their subsidiaries) that knew how to build nuclear power plants have gone out of business, halting any realistic hope of a nuclear power renaissance.

I thought the French were building new, more advanced nuclear plants to replace their aging ones.

 

[Chuckanut]

The comments here have been incredibly interesting, often entertaining. California . . . it's not for everyone, that is for sure. It's great that those of you that dislike it have 49 other options. ?

A few years ago, a friend of mine bought his retirement condo in So. Cal for about $225,000. It was located in Banning, CA. So, one can still find affordable housing in some areas.

https://www.neighborhoods.com/banning-estates-banning-ca

 

[SkisALot]

Apparently cities in California are banning natural gas in new construction in a way to fight climate change: https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/10...or-testifies-to-congress-about-car-emissions/