Mexican imports~ not exactly what we need

[mickeyd]

How many of these "imports" from south of the border can we afford to include in our society?

"What we're dealing with is a Third World country on the other side of the border where there is a culture of corruption ... corruption will show up here, naturally."

And show up, it has.

Since March 2004, 19 public officials including former Cameron County Sheriff Conrado Cantu, a city manager, several county commissioners, a school superintendent and several school trustees have been convicted of taking kickbacks and bribes.

Some pocketed wads of cash. Others accepted new tires for their cars or extensive remodeling jobs on their homes and businesses. Some even partied with prostitutes. In return, some allegedly awarded lucrative contracts to build or furnish new schools and public buildings. Or they looked the other way as traffickers hauled drugs across the border.

"Bribery is happening down here," said Israel Pacheco, a veteran Texas Ranger in McAllen. "To say it's not happening is to bury your head in the sand."

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4406359.html

 

[brewer12345]

Oh please. Local official corruption is as old as local officialdom, and it doesn't exclusively emanate from Mexico. Much of my local county gummint was charged with corruption by federal prosecutors last year and the mayor of a neighboring town was dragged off in leg chains at 5AM by the FBI. I doubt any of them had ever been to Mexico.

 

[Caroline]

Dryer Sheets? Don't need no stingin' dryer sheets!

Ahem.

Do I miss my guess, or are you paraphrasing one of those "Mexican Imports" (Alfonso Bedoya) with this little quote of yours?

Maybe we can agree that good and bad "imports" come in from other countries and, per Brewer's comment, that good and bad "domestic products" exist here already.

It's the season of peace and goodwill toward men, fergawdsake.

 

[Nords]

How many of these "imports" from south of the border can we afford to include in our society?

Oh please. Local official corruption is as old as local officialdom, and it doesn't exclusively emanate from Mexico. Much of my local county gummint was charged with corruption by federal prosecutors last year and the mayor of a neighboring town was dragged off in leg chains at 5AM by the FBI.

Mickey, by "south of the border" are you implying that the trend is moving south from the New Jersey & New York borders?

It's hard to believe that Mexico could have a better, more powerful system of bribery than the good ol' capitalist U.S. of A... I bet they were paid extra to say that.

 

[uncledrz]

governor of Illinois was convicted not too long ago.

a few years before that, was a large bribery investigation by the FBI, with many indictments and convictions in the Cook County judicial system.

illegal immigration has caused, and will continue to cause, many problems in this country. but causing corrupt officials isn't one of them. hopefully our law enforcement will continue to make sure that those who do the crime do have to do time.

 

[saluki9]

I can assure you as a resident of cook county IL (Chicago) that corruption is entirely limited to Mexico.

I certainly hope that these new immigrants don't inject anything illegal or immoral into the fine system of government we have created here

 

[kcowan]

In a way, Mexico is more honest because they don't pretend to be something they are not.

Show me an honest politician and I'll show you a runner-up

 

[mickeyd]

It's hard to believe that Mexico could have a better, more powerful system of bribery than the good ol' capitalist U.S. of A... I bet they were paid extra to say that.

You make an excellent point Nords. The article refers to Cameron County Texas (about 300k population) and the fact that almost 20 public employees have done evil deeds. This seems to be a bad situation according to the folks that were quoted in the article. They seem to think that much of this corruption is imported from Mexico. Since they live there, I assumed that they know their community and the source of it's problems.

I know a number of friends and relatives who reside in Mexico (American citizens) and they all have many, many tales of how bribery seems to be the accepted way to get anything done there. I do not mean bribes for illegal things. It seems to be an accepted way to get things done in the Mexican society. Rightly or wrongly, I assume that this happens it all parts of Mexico, but I could be wrong.

I have never had to bribe an American official, nor businessman, in order to transact business in the USA. That seems to be the difference that the article was pointing out.

 

[REWahoo]

While I agree we in the US certainly do not have corruption-free government, my experience in attempting to do business in Mexico says we are mere amateurs when compared to our neigbors to the south. "Mordito" is how things get done in Mexico, both in government and in business.

The company I worked for abandoned an attempt to expand our printing business into Mexico in the 1980's when it became obvious the amount of money required to pay the mordito would more than wipe out our profits. That may have improved somewhat with the growth of maquiladoras along the border, but I doubt it.

 

[Caroline]

I just spent the day tip-toeing through Texas Census records in search of dead relatives. (They're safer than the live ones, and easier to pin down!)

Prior to a certain census date virtually ALL of the inhabitants of Texas have Spanish surnames. Couldn't find an anglo among 'em.

If you want to talk about who stole what from whom, the 1830s look like a great place to start.

 

[REWahoo]

I just spent the day tip-toeing through Texas Census records in search of dead relatives. (They're safer than the live ones, and easier to pin down!)

Prior to a certain census date virtually ALL of the inhabitants of Texas have Spanish surnames. Couldn't find an anglo among 'em.

If you want to talk about who stole what from whom, the 1830s look like a great place to start.

I think you're correct on the time, let me suggest the place.

 

[modhatter]

Anyone arguing the point here has obviously not spent very much time in Mexico or other third world countris.

I am reminded of a conversation I had with someone in Phoenix, Az. who was Mexican. When complaining of the serious theft problem I was having at my store located in a predominantly Mexican area.

This is what she said to me. " Theft if a way of life in Mexico" My parents taught me as well as my other brothers and sisters to steal, and praised us
when we were successful"

My own experience there has fortified her statements. My experiences with doing any business or legal matters there no matter what degree of status they have, is the same. I would say finding someone who would deal with you in an ethical and honest manner is a rarity.

Yes, we have corruption here in the US, but compared to Mexico or other countries, this is Shangra La

 

[REWahoo]

From a Houston Chronicle report:

"The age-old bribe has long been a shortcut to wealth and power along the Texas-Mexico border. But these days, it's not just mayors lining their pockets or crooked police taking bags of cash to overlook drug loads.

The culture of bribery is quietly seeping into new realms of government, from school districts to municipal courts, experts say.

Since March 2004, 19 public officials — including former Sheriff Conrado Cantu, a city manager, several county commissioners, a school superintendent and several school trustees — have been convicted of taking kickbacks or bribes.

Some pocketed wads of cash. Others accepted new tires for their cars or agreed to extensive remodeling jobs on their homes and businesses. Some even partied with prostitutes.

In return, some allegedly awarded lucrative contracts to build or furnish new schools and public buildings. Or they looked the other way as traffickers hauled drugs across the border. "

"The bribery culture has existed in Mexico for centuries. There, the bribe is known as a mordida — or bite. And paying mordidas is often the most efficient — or the only — way of getting things done in Mexico.

Federal officials in the Rio Grande Valley say they began seeing rising numbers of bribery cases on the border several years ago and formed a task force targeting corruption and graft."

 

[brewer12345]

It may play well in Tejas to blame the Mxicans for corruption, but it still makes no sense. I live in a very white place far, far away from Mexico, Tejas, etc. and we still have major corruption issues. You know something is probably wring (even without a subpoena) when the Asst. County Transportation Coordinator is known to one and all as "Joey Busses."

 

[REWahoo]

It may play well in Tejas to blame the Mxicans for corruption, but it still makes no sense. I live in a very white place far, far away from Mexico, Tejas, etc. and we still have major corruption issues. You know something is probably wring (even without a subpoena) when the Asst. County Transportation Coordinator is known to one and all as "Joey Busses."

Uh, you live in NJ, right? Fugghedaboudit.

While I will agree no place in the US is immune to corruption, I can speak from personal experience that the permeation of bribes (AKA "a small gift as a token of my appreciation") has grown significantly in this part of the world, especially along the border. While it may not be politically correct to point the finger to our neighbors to the south, I have a difficult time believing it is merely coincidental. Logic says that if you grow up with certain customs and business practices, crossing a border isn't going to entirely erase your belief in how things are done.

 

[brewer12345]

Uh, you live in NJ, right? Fugghedaboudit.

While I will agree no place in the US is immune to corruption, I can speak from personal experience that the permeation of bribes (AKA "a small gift as a token of my appreciation") has grown significantly in this part of the world, especially along the border. While it may not be politically correct to point the finger to our neighbors to the south, I have a difficult time believing it is merely coincidental. Logic says that if you grow up with certain customs and business practices, crossing a border isn't going to entirely erase your belief in how things are done.

Like I said, painting it that way may play well in Tejas, but...

 

[REWahoo]

Like I said, painting it that way may play well in Tejas, but...

... what? "I know better?"

Brew, I'm not trying to pick a fight, but having been a resident of TX for 60 years, and spending the last 21 of them living in S. TX, I think I might be a little closer to the situation than you are. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and sometimes business practices follow traditions.

BTW, we chose to live here in retirement because we like the area, including the rich Mexican heritage. So before you paint me as just another prejudiced Anglo resentful of Mexican immigrants as your posts have implied, look in the mirror and ask yourself if your dismissal of my first person experience isn't a bit stereotypical/prejudicial as well.

In anticipation of your response, let me preempt my reply by going ahead and saying, "I suppose we will just have to agree to disagree."

 

[brewer12345]

I think I might be a little closer to the situation than you are.

Therein lies the problem. Thank you for nicely summing up for me.

I know better than to argue with a moderator, so I will just say that I find it a tad distasteful for people to see corruption of the sort taht goes on just about everywhere in the US (and Canada and Europe and Asia and South America and Africa and Antarctica...) and say to themselves, "its that darn Mexican culture!" Seems a lot more plausible that it is just human nature.

Dats all I got to say bout dat.

 

[REWahoo]

Therein lies the problem.

And you've set foot along our border with Mexico exactly how many times?

I know better than to argue with a moderator...

If I didn't know you so well, I'd consider that a cop out.

...so I will just say that I find it a tad distasteful for people to see corruption of the sort taht goes on just about everywhere in the US (and Canada and Europe and Asia and South America and Africa and Antarctica...) and say to themselves, "its that darn Mexican culture!" Seems a lot more plausible that it is just human nature.

Human nature reinforced by institutionalized business practices that ignore international boundaries: http://www.mexicomatters.net/retirementmexico/04_bribeslamordidainmexico.php

 

[brewer12345]

Sorry, not taking the bait. Its not like you will acknowledge making obnoxious racist statements, anyway, so I see no point in arguing about it.

 

[REWahoo]

Its not like you will acknowledge making obnoxious racist statements, anyway...

Speaking of bait...

Brew, I think you've been spending too much time sitting at that monitor and it has effected how you see the world. As I said earlier, we will just have to agree to disagree.

I do have difficulty in seeing how you can you view my statement that the practice of paying bribes is commonplace in Mexico and my quoting a news story that it's spreading northward across the border as an "obnoxious racist statement". We've got a big German population down here and the number of oompah bands is larger than anywhere else in the state. I suppose that's a racist statement, too.

But I still think you are an OK guy.

 

[brewer12345]

Speaking of bait...

Just wanted you to know that you aren't the only master baiter here...

 

[HFWR]

Wank, wank Wink, wink...

 

[Nords]

If I'm looking for an expert on bribery, I'd go to someone who spends their time in NYC & NJ. Especially if their family spent years in the Fulton Fish Market. REW, you're not seeing any big black cars with out-of-state plates cruising through your neighborhood lately, are you?

And while Texas has seen more than its share of immigration, I'm a bit skeptical of blaming an ethical shift on a cultural diaspora. "I'm a good guy, a faithful family man, and an honest politician, but those Mexicans made me do it!!" Hawaii has seen a lot of Hispanic immigrants over the last 20 years but I think that they're actually learning more about bribery & corruption from the state government.

If declining ethics & morals were caused by immigration, I would've expected Texas to be done in by the Californians over two decades ago...

 

[REWahoo]

REW, you're not seeing any big black cars with out-of-state plates cruising through your neighborhood lately, are you?

No. But I have seen a large man resembling Gert Frobe wearing lederhosen and carrying what appears to be a flugelhorn case hanging around the mailbox. Guess maybe I shouldn't have mentioned the oompah bands....