Moved into CCRC today

[Rosie]

Awesome.

Merry Christmas harllee!

 

[Jerry1]

Great to hear you’re having such a great time.

 

[Happyretired]

Not all of them have a 10 year waiting list --but all the ones in my town do. In fact one CCRC in my town has quit taking a waiting list because there are so many on the list. I got on my waiting list at age 62 and I am now 72 and just got in.

There 3 parts to the entrance exam--

Financial --I had to give them an asset and liability statement and an income statement. They run some ratios to make sure you have adequate assets to pay the entrance fee and monthly fees. I had to give them the same financial information to get on the waiting list and they asked me to periodically update the info every few years.

Health--they get your health records from every doctor you have seen in the last 5 years. The requirement is for you to be able to live independently for 5 to 7 years. Some things automatically disqualify you--like dementia, Parkinsons and MS.

Cognitive--this was about a 20 minute test, you had to remember 5 words for 20 minutes, count backwards from 100 by 7 or some other number, draw some shapes, draw time on a clock, answer questions about current events like name of President, Governor, etc.

We have visited 8 Type A CCRCs in 4 states and most of them only require that you be able to live independently of if you're married, that one of you is independent. One defined independent as being ambulatory with or without a mobility aid. I have a friend who recently was accepted and entered a Type A CCRC with MS. She has taken an injection for at least 25 years with no worsening of symptoms. I don't know how Parkinsons or dementia would be treated. Most of us have some sort of degradation of memory as we age. Only 1 required a cognitive test. Most of the ones we visited only require a physician's statement asserting you can live independently. Only one required extensive medical records. The nicer ones, and especially the larger units, do have a wait list, usually 8-10 years.

 

[Accidental Retiree]

I've been following this very informative thread as well as the others here discussing CCRCs. Thanks to all who have contributed, especially you, harllee!

DH and I have no children and no relatives or close friends we could rely on. He's 72, I'm 64, and we're both in excellent health and live an active lifestyle. We're very comfortable financially. We don't have LTCI.

About a decade ago we went through the very stressful process of finding assisted living and then skilled nursing for DH's dad after his health went south, so we're somewhat familar with what we might encounter in the (hopefully distant) future.

Unlike the FIL, we have no one to rely on as we age. A Type-A/Lifecare (Lifeplan?) CCRC sounds ideal for us.

It's kind of hard to wrap our heads around what our perspectives will be, say, 6 or 8 years from now. At this point we're very happy with our current situation. I realize that the sooner we actually get the ball rolling, check out communities and get on waitlist(s), the better -- we don't want to be in a position where at some point in the future we wouldn't qualify for medical reasons. Where's that crystal ball when you need it?

My plan for 2024 will be to gather information so DH and I could do a bit of road tripping to check out communities. At this point we think we'd rather stay on the west coast, but, who knows?

(nwsteve, we'll probably visit your community this summer, I'll be in touch )

Rosie! Long time, no see! Hi and Merry Christmas!

 

[Koolau]

OP here. Our first Christmas in our CCRC has been amazing. So many wonderful holiday things to do---parties, music, dancing, charitable giving, a bazaar for present shopping, Christmas movies in the cinema and a wonderful Christmas buffet today. We did not know much about Hanukkah so we attended several Hanukkah events and learned. We had company for the big Christmas buffet today (delicious). It was heart warming to see all the efforts made for residents who did not have family or friends to attend the Christmas buffet. Anyone who did wanted to be paired up with others could do so. There were several large tables for people who would otherwise be alone.

The staff made extra efforts to make sure that people in assisted living, memory care, etc could attend the events. We had a party with carol singing and Santa Clause and some of the memory care folks seemed had a ball--they were belting out the songs and sitting on Santa's Lap!

Coming up for New Years we have a Casino themed New Years party and a buffet with the traditional New Years fare--pork, black eyed peas, collards, etc.

I'm so glad it's w*rking out for you and that you had a great Christmas experience in your new home.

Have a great New Year (probably should skip the amateur fireworks!)

 

[pacergal]

harlee--
wonderful update, sounds like a great Christmas for all the CCRC residents.

We, too, are considering future LTC ideas and will begin investigating in the near future.
First choice, always, is to age in our own home. That is not always feasible.

 

[harllee]

We have visited 8 Type A CCRCs in 4 states and most of them only require that you be able to live independently of if you're married, that one of you is independent. One defined independent as being ambulatory with or without a mobility aid. I have a friend who recently was accepted and entered a Type A CCRC with MS. She has taken an injection for at least 25 years with no worsening of symptoms. I don't know how Parkinsons or dementia would be treated. Most of us have some sort of degradation of memory as we age. Only 1 required a cognitive test. Most of the ones we visited only require a physician's statement asserting you can live independently. Only one required extensive medical records. The nicer ones, and especially the larger units, do have a wait list, usually 8-10 years.

A CCRC with a long waiting lists (like mine) can afford to be picky on admission and mine is very picky--you have to pass a financial and health review and a fairly hard cognitive test. I am glad for that. It does not make economic sense for a Type A CCRC to admit someone who might shortly have to move to a much more costly level of care like memory care. I want the new residents to be in good physical and financial condition. I looked at 4 CCRCs in my area and all of them required a cognitive test (and all of them had long waiting lists).

 

[mountainox]

Great update Harlee!

I appreciate your information as we're on the cusp of our move to a CCRC around Oct of 2024. I feel much better about our decision having read your posts. We'll be just west of you in Burlington, NC so maybe a visit in the future. Happy New Year

 

[harllee]

Great update Harlee!

I appreciate your information as we're on the cusp of our move to a CCRC around Oct of 2024. I feel much better about our decision having read your posts. We'll be just west of you in Burlington, NC so maybe a visit in the future. Happy New Year

I bet I can guess where you are moving! Keep us updated in your situation, I think you will be moving into a brand new building? Do you have to pass a cognitive test, etc?

 

[Slater]

Cognitive--this was about a 20 minute test, you had to remember 5 words for 20 minutes, count backwards from 100 by 7 or some other number, draw some shapes, draw time on a clock, answer questions about current events like name of President, Governor, etc.

Ide fail that, im ony 51.....

 

[harllee]

Ide fail that, im ony 51.....

My key to remembering 5 words for 20 minutes is to repeat the 5 words several times and in my head make up a little story that contains all 5 words. Using this method I was able to remember all 5 words and can still remember them today about 9 months later.

 

[mountainox]

I bet I can guess where you are moving! Keep us updated in your situation, I think you will be moving into a brand new building? Do you have to pass a cognitive test, etc?

If we have to pass such a test, we've not been told. It is a new building at Twin Lakes.

 

[Happyretired]

A CCRC with a long waiting lists (like mine) can afford to be picky on admission and mine is very picky--you have to pass a financial and health review and a fairly hard cognitive test. I am glad for that. It does not make economic sense for a Type A CCRC to admit someone who might shortly have to move to a much more costly level of care like memory care. I want the new residents to be in good physical and financial condition. I looked at 4 CCRCs in my area and all of them required a cognitive test (and all of them had long waiting lists).

All eight we have looked at and toured have long wait lists. Some are more selective than others. The standard for Type A admission in the vast majority of cases is that you have to be able to live independently. Most want you to live independently for at least 5 years, as assisted living and skilled nursing costs them more. The CCRC where you live looks nice. I like that it is in a more rural area. However, this does have drawbacks as it doesn't appear to be real close to major retail. I thought about inquiring there, but its relative youth is of concern to me. Also, I looked at its financial statements included in the disclosure statement, and it is concerning that for both 2021 and 2022, its total liabilities exceeded its total assets. They reported a net deficit for both years as well. Perhaps there's a good explanation for this.

 

[harllee]

All eight we have looked at and toured have long wait lists. Some are more selective than others. The standard for Type A admission in the vast majority of cases is that you have to be able to live independently. Most want you to live independently for at least 5 years, as assisted living and skilled nursing costs them more. The CCRC where you live looks nice. I like that it is in a more rural area. However, this does have drawbacks as it doesn't appear to be real close to major retail. I thought about inquiring there, but its relative youth is of concern to me. Also, I looked at its financial statements included in the disclosure statement, and it is concerning that for both 2021 and 2022, its total liabilities exceeded its total assets. They reported a net deficit for both years as well. Perhaps there's a good explanation for this.

True my CCRC is not close to major retail (but there are several nice groceries and a Walmart nearby) but that is a benefit to me, I hate shopping, do most of my shopping on the internet. The CCRC does take a bus every week or so to a major shopping center that is about 15 miles away but that is not for me. True is it a younger CCRC than others in the area (less than 20 years old, the wing I am in is less 12 years old) but again that appears to me to be a benefit--the buildings are newer and the average age of residents is younger. I had my accountant and lawyer look at the financials and they saw no financial problems --the reason that the long term liabilities exceed assets is because of the long term bond debt that was used to build the buildings. If you look at the actuarial study attached to the financial statement there should be no problem in meeting the debt payments over the short and long term. And for 20121 and 2022 there is an excess of revenue over expenses. My advisors said that the only way that my CCRC could have financial difficulties is if there were a substantial number of vacant apartments and that would be true of any CCRC. Right now the independent living apartments are 100% occupied or reserved and there are over 600 people on the waitlist. I feel really good about the financial future here.

 

[Rosie]

True my CCRC is not close to major retail (but there are several nice groceries and a Walmart nearby) but that is a benefit to me, I hate shopping, do most of my shopping on the internet.

Funny how different things are important to different people. I'm with harllee, I hate shopping.

Close to me, I'd take nice hiking trails rather than a major retail area any day.

 

[harllee]

Funny how different things are important to different people. I'm with harllee, I hate shopping.

Close to me, I'd take nice hiking trails rather than a major retail area any day.

Totally agree. My CCRC has some nice hiking/walking/biking trials, beautiful gardens and Galloway cows. I will take that any day over a shopping mall.

 

[Happyretired]

Funny how different things are important to different people. I'm with harllee, I hate shopping.

Close to me, I'd take nice hiking trails rather than a major retail area any day.

I want both. They're hard to find, but they're out there.

 

[Happyretired]

True my CCRC is not close to major retail (but there are several nice groceries and a Walmart nearby) but that is a benefit to me, I hate shopping, do most of my shopping on the internet. The CCRC does take a bus every week or so to a major shopping center that is about 15 miles away but that is not for me. True is it a younger CCRC than others in the area (less than 20 years old, the wing I am in is less 12 years old) but again that appears to me to be a benefit--the buildings are newer and the average age of residents is younger. I had my accountant and lawyer look at the financials and they saw no financial problems --the reason that the long term liabilities exceed assets is because of the long term bond debt that was used to build the buildings. If you look at the actuarial study attached to the financial statement there should be no problem in meeting the debt payments over the short and long term. And for 20121 and 2022 there is an excess of revenue over expenses. My advisors said that the only way that my CCRC could have financial difficulties is if there were a substantial number of vacant apartments and that would be true of any CCRC. Right now the independent living apartments are 100% occupied or reserved and there are over 600 people on the waitlist. I feel really good about the financial future here.

I think it's critical to closely examine the financials of CCRCs when deciding on one. You are entrusting them to care for you the rest of your life. There are basic metrics to consider when making your decision. I want them to be in excellent financial position.

 

[braumeister]

I think it's critical to closely examine the financials of CCRCs when deciding on one.

Absolutely.

Here is what I consider a good overview of how to evaluate their audited financial statement:

https://www.riverwoodsgroup.org/assets/2020/07/CCRC-Financial-Evaluation-White-Paper-Financial-Advisors-RWG-July-2020.pdf

 

[Happyretired]

Absolutely.

Here is what I consider a good overview of how to evaluate their audited financial statement:

https://www.riverwoodsgroup.org/assets/2020/07/CCRC-Financial-Evaluation-White-Paper-Financial-Advisors-RWG-July-2020.pdf

Excellent resource. Thanks for posting.

 

[Koolau]

I think I would run the CCRC's financials past a CPA. I don't know that I'd trust myself to use the info in that site to evaluate the financial health of a CCRC (I don't ever do my own taxes, for instance.) A penny's worth of prevention is worth a pound of cure. YMMV

 

[Sunset]

I think I would run the CCRC's financials past a CPA. I don't know that I'd trust myself to use the info in that site to evaluate the financial health of a CCRC (I don't ever do my own taxes, for instance.) A penny's worth of prevention is worth a pound of cure. YMMV

But knowing some things to look for can eliminate the easily bad choices.
Just from a quick read of that site, I know retirement places work on 95% occupancy. So if I see a place with 80% occupancy red flags are raised as they will go bankrupt after some time

Of course I do my own taxes and taxes for some other folks too.

 

[Happyretired]

But knowing some things to look for can eliminate the easily bad choices.
Just from a quick read of that site, I know retirement places work on 95% occupancy. So if I see a place with 80% occupancy red flags are raised as they will go bankrupt after some time

Of course I do my own taxes and taxes for some other folks too.

I have the expertise to analyze financial statements. For those that don't, it's definitely worth hiring a financial professional to do this. We will only consider CCRCs that are financially very solid. There is one we looked at that we love, but it has incurred much construction debt so some of their ratios don't look good. They will 'probably' be ok, but since there are others in a much better financial position, we ruled this one out. I know of one CCRC that is in the pre-build process where auditors have said there is "substantial doubt about the company's ability to continue as a going concern", yet a large number of people have placed deposits. I am constantly amazed at the number of seniors who move into CCRCs without closely examining their finances. This is easier to do in some states as some require CCRCs to disclose more information than others.

 

[Koolau]

But knowing some things to look for can eliminate the easily bad choices.
Just from a quick read of that site, I know retirement places work on 95% occupancy. So if I see a place with 80% occupancy red flags are raised as they will go bankrupt after some time

Of course I do my own taxes and taxes for some other folks too.

I've looked at perhaps half a dozen places between here and on the mainland. Not one of them had an immediate opening (IOW there was a waiting list.) So my guess is the "industry" is doing quite well as a whole. So the more subtle things are what I would ask a CPA to evaluate. YMMV

 

[MarieIG]

I think I would run the CCRC's financials past a CPA. I don't know that I'd trust myself to use the info in that site to evaluate the financial health of a CCRC (I don't ever do my own taxes, for instance.) A penny's worth of prevention is worth a pound of cure. YMMV

But knowing some things to look for can eliminate the easily bad choices.
Just from a quick read of that site, I know retirement places work on 95% occupancy. So if I see a place with 80% occupancy red flags are raised as they will go bankrupt after some time

Of course I do my own taxes and taxes for some other folks too.

I actually think a combo of these two things is a good idea. To the extent possible, read of the documents and eliminate facilities with red flags - and have a professional review the documentation of any of the final contenders - to the extent that is beyond one's capabilities.