Plan for if the "money partner" dies first?

[Alan]

Similar situation. Here’s what we’ve done:
(1) Taxes - we hire a CPA we both know to do them for us
(2) Retirement Financial Plan - I wrote our plan for how to invest during retirement and how we pay for retirement. I update it yearly and review it with her.
(3) Finances - simplified all finances into one investment company plus one bank. Insisted Vanguard provide a Flagship rep who I’ve introduced to my wife. She knows she can let VG manage our investment account if needed. However, I review our investments with her quarterly and have had her execute online some of the few buy/sells we’ve done. Shes pretty comfortable she can manage this if I pass.
(4) Monthly household expenses - she’s done this before and would be ok doing them if I pass.
(5) Estate book - I also put together a notebook of the things an executor may need if I or both of us pass. Lists investment accounts, bank account, bills to be paid, location of deeds, contacts (ex: lawyer and cpa), wills, etc,etc…
Good to be thinking about this stuff when we are still healthy and under no immediate pressures.

Yes, I do the money
1) Roth convert her 403b/401k as much as possible in the next 7 years
2) simplify her Roth investments to a single investment company.
3)My pension will be with 100% survivor benefit.
4) I take SS at 70 to maximize survivor benefit.

I agree with all of this and have implemented it. (I'll take my SS at 70 in a couple of years).

I update the instructions and list of accounts every January and keep it with our wills. DW is very good with household jobs around the house plus within a mile away is our son, our daughter and my much younger sister and her very helpful and capable husband.

 

[PatrickA5]

Like others, I've done the following:

1) Notebook with just about everything financial related. All the way down to what subscriptions (Netflix, etc). It was quite an undertaking, but now I update it twice a year and have DW read the entire thing and ask questions.

2) All IRA's and Taxable Brokerage accounts are at FIDO. All IRAs are invested in the same Target Index Fund - which should be fine going forward. She knows where the FIDO office is. I've drummed into her head over the years to not let them talk her into managed accounts. We have one B&M bank account that all payments flow through.

3) I've always done our taxes. They should be simple enough that she can do them easily. If not, I'm grooming our son to help out with finances - he has a finance/accounting degree, so he should be able to help.

4) We're delaying her SS until (maybe) 70 to give her the highest amount possible (she's the higher earner).

5) As far as how to work the sprinkler system, etc, well I'm sure she'll be able to figure that kind of stuff out. Got to leave her something to do.

6) The only thing left to do financially is to simplify the credits cards. I play the points/miles game, but over the next couple of years I'm going to go strictly cash back using the FIDO card. I'm getting there.

 

[CRLLS]

We are in the same boat. DW does not have the interest in the financial side.

Years ago, I found "The Big Book of Everything" by Eric Dewey.

Erik A Dewey, PhD - The Big Book of Everything

It is a free, fill-in-the-blank-document covering a lot of what is said here. Listing personal information, Bank accounts. etc.

I have not completed filling it out as I am lazy. But I do find that it is a good thing to follow to help get the important info in one place.

 

[rkser]

Good informative thread,

I do the investments, but DW does do the monthly bills & we both sit down & do the Taxes .

Kids were not interested one bit & did not even comment/ had any questions at the Pass words List & Brokers & Banks we use.
They seemed to think they will get to deal with that stuff in distant future.

 

[pacergal]

I have one of these on order. Being single, I need to leave behind instructions on what needs to be done after I'm gone.

https://www.amazon.com/Important-Information-Belongings-Business-Affairs/dp/1441317996/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=3IBGF6U5LP12P&keywords=i%27m+dead+now+what+book+planner&qid=1685316243&sprefix=I%27m+dead+%2Caps%2C137&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExTlczTjVIQ0dYMTUyJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNjAyMzkzMUNIVzZIS0o5VkxDViZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMjIzMDUyUUpWWTNTTDhTTlhGJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfYXRmJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

This looks like a good book.
I have much of this info, but it is spread out into 2 notebooks and a file for passwords. Something like this might simplify things further. Both of our kids know where to find the books.
The things I hadn't thought of was accessing social media to close accounts. I do have the passwords in my file, so hopefully that would clue the kids in.

I have primarily been the financial person, DH does sit down every few months to pay bills, DH and our kids know where our "end of Life" books are, where I keep passwords, etc. We have our investments all at one place, and one bank, one credit union for checking and savings accounts. DH is familiar with all.

We, too, have thought of selling the house and moving to an apartment as we age. We live in the house my DF built, and our kids were also raised here, so our DD has a strong attachment. We think it would be easier if we sold it and DS/DD didn't need to think about it. Plus, something smaller, lock and leave would be much easier as we get older.

Lots to think about from this thread!

 

[aja8888]

This looks like a good book.
I have much of this info, but it is spread out into 2 notebooks and a file for passwords. Something like this might simplify things further. Both of our kids know where to find the books.
The things I hadn't thought of was accessing social media to close accounts. I do have the passwords in my file, so hopefully that would clue the kids in.

I have primarily been the financial person, DH does sit down every few months to pay bills, DH and our kids know where our "end of Life" books are, where I keep passwords, etc. We have our investments all at one place, and one bank, one credit union for checking and savings accounts. DH is familiar with all.

We, too, have thought of selling the house and moving to an apartment as we age. We live in the house my DF built, and our kids were also raised here, so our DD has a strong attachment. We think it would be easier if we sold it and DS/DD didn't need to think about it. Plus, something smaller, lock and leave would be much easier as we get older.

Lots to think about from this thread!

When my wife passed away last December, I took on the duty of closing all her accounts. It's a good thing I had a paper copy of her usernames and passwords or I would have been up $hit$ creek!

She was very active with her Facebook account (I don't have one) and closing it required logging into her account and FINDING the links to close it. Interestingly, Facebook won't actually close the account until there is no activity on it on her part for 30 days. I hope it's closed.

On moving.....I am listing the house and moving into a rental. Too many memories here and I can't get past them. Where I'm going? I had not made that decision yet, but did sign a listing agreement last Friday.

 

[rk911]

I handle all the investments and don't use a financial advisor. In addition to investments I am optimizing taxes, healthcare, social security, estate planning, existing debt, etc.

My wife has zero interest in any of this. If I die first, I'm thinking maybe we need something like a springing financial advisor. Or maybe it's just a well written plan (what to do if qwerty dies...).

Do other people have things like this in place?

Same issue here but we've hired a financial advisor and we've simplified and consolidated our accounts. I have all of our routine monthly bills on auto pay and our SS and pension checkscon auto deposit.

 

[rodi]

I have a document (password protected) called "In case of Death) on my desktop and once a year I print it out and put it in the safe deposit box. It goes through the list of bills, where the passwords are, a list of investment/bank accounts (and passwords.)

I've tried to make DH go through turbo tax with me - he never seems to find the time. Our taxes are fairly simple - only extra is our granny flat rental income/expenses. We've gone through the nuances for that. (Shared water bill, shared property tax and the percentage for those.)

When my mom was dx'd with cancer she started 'training' my dad. She kicked the training into overdrive when the cancer came back. She made him go with her grocery shopping and taught him how to pick veggies and fruit, what to buy at costco, vs sprouts, etc. She also made him do laundry under her observation/instruction. (He hadn't grocery shopped (full shop with menu planning) or done laundry (complete with sheets/towels) since they'd been married.) Housekeeping was handled with merry maids.

Dad, being as frugal as he was, figured out cooking at home was far cheaper/healthier than meals out pretty quickly after mom passed.

 

[marko]

Along similar lines, every time DW and I travel, I leave an envelope on my desk. In case we both "don't make it home" from our trip, it is addressed to the executors of our trusts.

It outlines where everything is, who to contact, passwords and how everything works.

 

[Sue J]

My husband is a wonderful guy and an excellent retiree. But he avoids anything financial except for the cash in his pocket. Money discussions make him queasy and itchy. I used to try to talk to him about our tax return every year. Hasn’t happened in many years because he prefers to have blinders on. So I finally gave up.

I have shown our 38 year old son where we stand and how everything is shown on the Vanguard site. He also uses Vanguard so he is familiar.

I got DH to sit at my computer and get his fingerprint authorized. And I’ve given him my computer login.

I tried for a long time to include him in our financial lives. He prefers to not know. Kind of makes me sad because we do so well and I’d like him to feel it too. Nope, does not want to know.

 

[mystang52]

For bills, we sit together monthly and DW goes through the payment process. It takes much much longer than if I just did them, but it is worth reinforcing to her what has to be paid and how. I also maintain a spreadsheet for her for all of our bills, showing which monthly bey must be paid in and the due date within the month.

For finances, she has access to all accounts. I make sure she logs on quarterly to each one.I am simplifying our financial life, we are down to 3 firms for investments and 4 banks. The investments are simplified so that she does not have to do anything, and can just "let things ride". There will be enough cash to make it unnecessary to touch investments. I am still educating her on the RMD concept and what to do if I am not around when those have to be taken.I also maintain for her a document showing the transfer linkages between the accounts.

She has access to my desktop and knows where things such as the password database app is located, and has access to all of my email accounts.

1) A few years back we started having DW do the bills, with me guiding her. In that time, I also simplified a couple of things. One thing I did was have all our credit cards (we primarily use 3) closing dates at end of the month. Before we get the paper statement [DW refuses to go paperless], the credit cards have already been paid.
2) More than a few years ago I put together a "simple English" document showing where ALL of our money is, Insurance information, and what she needs to know and do about them, etc. This document is broken down on individual pages with a title for each, and a Table of Contents. Some basic home maintenance items are also described, such as changing the whole house water filter. Both of my children have a copy as well.
3) The last page is titled "In The Event of My Death" and gives info on what institutions and people need to be notified, and other relevant information.

 

[Markola]

My husband is a wonderful guy and an excellent retiree. But he avoids anything financial except for the cash in his pocket. Money discussions make him queasy and itchy. I used to try to talk to him about our tax return every year. Hasn’t happened in many years because he prefers to have blinders on. So I finally gave up.

I have shown our 38 year old son where we stand and how everything is shown on the Vanguard site. He also uses Vanguard so he is familiar.

I got DH to sit at my computer and get his fingerprint authorized. And I’ve given him my computer login.

I tried for a long time to include him in our financial lives. He prefers to not know. Kind of makes me sad because we do so well and I’d like him to feel it too. Nope, does not want to know.

DW is somewhat like that. People have all kinds of money trauma and it manifests in different ways. One cope is to marry someone who is good with money and sees personal finance as empowering, which is not a terrible strategy.

 

[Sue J]

Plan for if the "money partner" dies first?

DW is somewhat like that. People have all kinds of money trauma and it manifests in different ways. One cope is to marry someone who is good with money and sees personal finance as empowering, which is not a terrible strategy.

I don’t know of any money trauma. His family was secure, his dad had a good career, his mom was home. But I did have an early clue. We met in 11th grade algebra class. I got an A and he flunked the class. We’ve been together since then.

I enjoy managing the home economy. I am a former accountant and spreadsheets come naturally to me. We make a good team.

We’ve had the discussion about one of us going first. He told me if I die first he’s putting everything (Roth IRA, Inherited IRA, HSAs, brokerage acct) in one place - the bank. He does know to call his pension plan and tell him to change the pension from 100% to survivor to single and he’ll get an increase for that. He will lose my SS benefit because of GPO.

I have some simple instructions in a folder. I should add a note “You should have paid attention.”

 

[jazz4cash]

DW is somewhat like that. People have all kinds of money trauma and it manifests in different ways. One cope is to marry someone who is good with money and sees personal finance as empowering, which is not a terrible strategy.

Money trauma is a good description for DW. On top of that she does not trust me. Both families are income oriented….work and retire with a nice pension. I’m the exception. She can figure things out I think as long as she knows where everything is. I use Fidelity GPS and give her a summary once per year. but she always says she’ll look at it later. It includes everything except the term life ins. She’s met my Fido guy once on the phone and their advisory service would be an option. I keep a copy of the GPS report in the folder with our will.

 

[big-papa]

I handle all the investments and don't use a financial advisor. In addition to investments I am optimizing taxes, healthcare, social security, estate planning, existing debt, etc.

My wife has zero interest in any of this. If I die first, I'm thinking maybe we need something like a springing financial advisor. Or maybe it's just a well written plan (what to do if qwerty dies...).

Do other people have things like this in place?

Similar situation here.

Our answer: Well written plans
- What I do is very well documented
- What I suggest she do, step by step, if I pre-decease. All with an eye on good enough simplicity. As we go through life and we pass certain milestones, I update both plans. In other words what I would suggest she do when we're both 62 and I'm gone might be different than what I would suggest at age 70, etc.

cheers.

 

[Midpack]

(3) Finances - simplified all finances into one investment company plus one bank.
(4) Monthly household expenses - she’s done this before and would be ok doing them if I pass.
(5) Estate book - I also put together a notebook of the things an executor may need if I or both of us pass. Lists investment accounts, bank account, bills to be paid, location of deeds, contacts (ex: lawyer and cpa), wills, etc,etc…
Good to be thinking about this stuff when we are still healthy and under no immediate pressures.

Not all the way there, but this much is done. DW would be OK, she handles our spending and banking but very little interest otherwise. Our estate book would be most helpful, and she was in on the entire process. She has no idea what our net worth is even though I show her periodically. Our investments are simpler now than they used to be, all index funds and cash (plus a temporary foray into T-Bills?). Income taxes would probably be her toughest adjustment, she would probably hire someone.

 

[I Yam What I Yam]

I handle all the money related tasks in my family. DW has no interest in the details and operates from the fear based perspective that we have to tightly control spending to live without full time employment. Nothing could be further from the truth based on the all the planning we have done. I've tried to engage many times over the years and it ends in frustration. As such, I haven't spent any time documenting what I do from an investing standpoint as I feel it would be wasted effort and completely ignored on my passing. Odds are, she will do nothing and things will continue as they have.

We have a financial consultant at Schwab that I have spent time discussing in detail my investment style/objectives and she can help DW with the investments if I was to pass. We used to keep a binder of documents that included passwords, account information, etc. but last year we stopped that practice. Now, we have all our documents on iCloud and have set up my wife, the executor of our will, and the contingent executor as Legacy Contacts for my AppleID. In the event I/we die, all they need is my death certificate and they can access all our documents, passwords, lists of accounts, trustee information, and other pertinent information.

 

[arcyallen]

We sit down and talk about this at the start of every year. I do all the long term money planning, she takes care of the recurring bills. If she dies, I'm pretty capable of paying those bills myself and figuring everything out. But if I die, it's a bit more complicated. We have all the "what ifs" worked out, and she knows what she'll need to do. Our situation is a little different in that she has a severe disability and will need care if I croak.

The plan is for her to go our FA (who we have, but I'm basically running the account) and tweak our plan as necessary. For the record, my wife HATES having this yearly conversation as where I enjoy it. Something to keep in mind if a spouse seems oddly resistant.

 

[brett]

We have done the same as others for exactly the same reasons. I keep it updated on an annual basis.

It is very straightforward. My spouse knows where the monies are, where the lasted copy of the wills are, the CPA, lawyer, and financial advisory contacts, plus the day to day banking and online banking details. Credit card details to the point where we ensured that my spouse had a credit history in her own name.

 

[bobandsherry]

I've maintained our finances in Quicken. All accounts are included as well as websites and login info. Just one password in Quicken makes that available.

I use a password manager to save off all my website logins, so it's all easily found and accessible. Just need one master password to login, which my wife is aware of.

Taxes are on the PC as well.

I manage my own finances, have tried to simplify so it can run on auto pilot to ensure she has ample income, but need to spend time as some point to run through the details.

 

[DrRoy]

For decades I have handled the investments and DW the bills. Back in the day I travelled a lot for work and might not be home when a payment was due and you had to put a check in the mail. Now it's nearly all on autopay. She knows where the accounts are and we do the taxes together every year. She wouldn't be into it as much as me but I think she would be ok with the investments.

 

[Retired2016]

We created what we call our "End of Life Binder". It lists all of our assets, routine bills, insurance policies, financial accounts, doctors, and final wishes. We have also started to include instructions for items like the ones marko has listed as we think of them.

It will help my wife if I die first, and it will help whoever cleans up the mess if we both die at the same time.

I’ve done this too. In addition, I’ve done the following:

1. Document with monthly bills and what accounts/credit cards they’re paid with.
2. Any reoccurring credit card bills are on his CC so they wouldn’t have to be transferred.
3. All accounts linked to a joint one so money can be moved out easily
4. A bookmark on my computer with accounts in alphabetical order and their URLs and logins saved with a PW manager.

Even after I did all the above, I found Mike Piper’s book, “After the death of your spouse” beneficial.

 

[djsander]

My wife says if I die first she will haunt me do to all the electronic gadgets that she needs help with. On a more serious note we do have a lot of stuff set up so either one or the kids can handle everything. We probably need to go back through it all, update some items and have a further discussion on some things,

 

[isisdave]

I have one of these on order. Being single, I need to leave behind instructions on what needs to be done after I'm gone.

That's rich. I have a shortcut right in the middle of my (unlocked) computer desktop named "In Case We Drop Dead" and have mentioned it to our son, who so far thinks we will live A Long Time.

I'm hoping for a final act of 1-3 months, but ya never know. It's also possible the mind will go on ahead of the body, so I review and update the docs every few months.

DW is gonna need tech help with everything from turning on Bluetooth to rebooting the router on up. I'm suggesting she hire a 14-year-old as a consultant until up to speed.

 

[mcbraemer]

I'm in a similar situation but recently have had some serious health scares. DW has now demanded that she become involved and better understand how it all works.

I've also written everything out on the mechanics of it all. She's even recently started taking over paying the bills!!

None of it is extremely complicated and I've also written a plan on how to simplify some of the slightly more involved aspects.

And our accountant handles the broader picture.

Same here. Fortunately, the mad days of Robbing Peter to Pay Paul are finally over after so many years of raising and paying for children (3), and then shoveling every dollar possible into 401ks. After consolidating almost all finances into one investment company and one bank, our personal finances and investments are considerably simpler. This permitted getting DW involved in everything financial without major complexities.