Poll:How many here have a defined benefit pension?

[Gumby]

Again, you nailed it. (Had to look up SIRE, had not heard of it)
Almost need two platforms, as the two have so little in common.
.....

I suspect most people on this board have some mix of both secure income (SS and/or pensions) and portfolio earnings/gains. For that reason, I think that most of what we discuss here is common to and of interest to everyone. For those few things that are specific to one end or the other of the continuum, I have no problem just skipping over any discussions that are not applicable to my particular situation.

 

[almost there]

Yes it is two different worlds. My pension is more now than I ever made working thanks to COLAs. And I am saving more than I ever have. Basically am saving for retirement after I retired, and will always have a 0% withdrawal rate as I have no money in IRAs. Just Roth and an HSA. So my withdrawal rate is skewed from the pension and irrelevant to most. I know several people with negative net worths (not accounting for the house) that live just fine in retirement because the COLA part of the pension will allow that.

Agree, I know more than a few with 6 figure pensions. Who never bothered to save much at all. New cars, travel etc. As they knew they didn't have to worry about it. Not saying you, or anyone here. Just in my circles there are several.
And most didn't really retire all that early. 60-65 on average. And wait till 70 for SS.

 

[RunningBum]

Lol I've always joked that my little pension will probably pay for our mobile phones. I see that the pin number for that account is in the mail today and I'll get a chance to look at it. I'm pretty excited nonetheless. I haven't worked in that trade since 1997?

Ha! A friend in the same situation as me, small non-COLA pension because we barely got our 10 years in before leaving, said it would probably pay for a 6-pack a week by the time we collected. It's a little better than that, but it's only a tiny part of my retirement. Drawing conclusions from the results of a simple, self-selected poll is probably a mistake.

 

[skyking1]

Hence all the explanations inside the thread
It's good to note and represent the trade union pensions and other non-cola pensions, as many people think there are just the military/government ones anymore.
I could choose to take a cola adjusted pension, but it would just mean money off the top to begin with which to me seems like I really stupid bet to make.
Here, please give me less money now in the hopes that I live longer LOL!

 

[RunningBum]

Hence all the explanations inside the thread

Some people like quick and easy answers that confirm their beliefs. Look at post #9.

 

[almost there]

Some people like quick and easy answers that confirm their beliefs. Look at post #9.

I did not see the old post from 2009.
https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/poll-do-you-have-a-pension-109239.html

 

[G-Man]

It's one of the few weaknesses of ER.org, but the only solution I know would be to encourage everyone to indicate same in their sig line, but that's probably not going to happen. SIRE vs FIRE leads to wildly different answers, but the person asking AND the person answering usually don't know how they compare to the other. Unfortunately that sometimes leads to misplaced guidance.

So FIRE does not include SS and pension income? Please advise.

 

[Lisa99]

Only $1k to begin with then lost half of it my recent divorce.

Ex didn't have a pension.

 

[rodi]

Again, you nailed it. (Had to look up SIRE, had not heard of it)
Almost need two platforms, as the two have so little in common.
In regards to advice etc. Have been trying to pinpoint why some responses were so different. This explains it completely. .

Have been in the FIRE camp the past 10 years. Seems there are fewer of us here than ever.

FIRE - portfolio, business/rental income, sale of property, PT work, etc (Financial Independence, Retire Early )
SIRE - Soc Sec, pensions, annuities, inheritance (What's the S for? Social? as in Taxes' ?)

IMO there is a lot in common between pension-covers-it-all and portfolio-covers-it-all types... Just look at the "what did you do today" thread, etc... What we all have in common is that we DON'T HAVE TO GO TO WORK!!!!

And your definitions miss a lot of people in the middle. We have income from DH's SS, our granny flat rental income, my micro pensions, and portfolio withdrawals. It's about 1/2 portfolio withdrawals, the rest from rental/SS/micro pension. I don't think I'm that uncommon to have a mix of non-portfolio income sources and portfolio withdrawals.

So FIRE does not include SS and pension income? Please advise.

See above - for our household it definitely includes those, in addition to portfolio withdrawals.


I think the upshot is - The first quote's definition of FIRE vs SIRE effects withdrawal strategies and withdrawal rate... but not whether a person is retired.

 

[almost there]

Just to get it out there..........
My withdrawal strategy / withdrawal rate / 1.5 yrs from now with SS.
SS as of today is $2900 combined at 62. Both of us will be 62 by Jan. 2024.
Current income plan / %'s below.

SS 28%, Fixed lifetime annuity 15%, TIRA 25%, Rental 32%.

After my 2 last Roth conversions in 23&24. Will draw down the TIRA for 20-25 yrs.
Just showing my engineered paycheck. Trying to keep near the 12% -15% bracket.
Roth and savings left to grow... More than we need, so we plan to save 10-20% annually from the above.
It can be cut up many ways. Just what I have come up with so far...

 

[rk911]

i didn't see this before the poll closed. between myself and my wife we have three defined benefit pensions, each with an annual 3% increase on the original monthly benefit check.

 

[almost there]

Pole Results, 75% of this group posted they had a defined benefit pension.
"According to the Pension Rights Center, only 31 percent of Americans are now retiring with some form of a defined benefit retirement plan."

So, this group is well above average.

 

[lucky penny]

Having a non-COLA pension I always assumed in my first years of ER I would live mostly off the pension and later, as inflation eroded the value of the pension, I would live mostly off my savings. I guess that transition is now occurring a bit sooner than I expected.

That's been my plan too -- along with taking SS at 70, to help with the sting of "inflation erosion."

 

[rk911]

...So, this group is well above average.

in oh so many ways.

 

[Love This Community]

Maybe not all members especially those with no db pensions responded or participated in the poll thereby skewing the results.

 

[almost there]

Maybe not all members especially those with no db pensions responded or participated in the poll thereby skewing the results.

Agree, just a random sample. Was 36% in 2009. 25% today.

 

[skyking1]

I did get a PIN to get into my little pension and:
Drumroll



$273 and change!

/Rimshot

It is managed by the same company that manages my big pension now. That was a recent change.
I do have spouse survivor options, early retirement at 84% @63 and 92% @64
With the plan's status, I will take it @63 with no spouse option. The big pension covers her.
I'll get ~$230 out if it as long as it is solvent.

 

[PandaBear]

Dh has a non cola pension of 75k. I’m retiring June 1, so don’t know the exact amount of mine, but about 94K. No cola either, but a 2% increase each year, but based on your original amount, so the increase is the same year to year.
Although I fear it a a little bit of a naughty word around here, both are 100% survivor. Dh’s has a bounce back period of 5 years, and mine can happen at any time.

 

[Alan]

Having a non-COLA pension I always assumed in my first years of ER I would live mostly off the pension and later, as inflation eroded the value of the pension, I would live mostly off my savings. I guess that transition is now occurring a bit sooner than I expected.

That is exactly how it worked for me. I needed enough to get from age 55 to 60 when IRAs were available without penalty.

 

[skipro33]

$6,215 monthly from a pension with a 5% (max) cola (4.7% bump in April) and $3,106 in SS. Both are full survivor for both I and my wife. I have enough outside my pension and SS in investments to draw an equal amount in perpetuity. However, I find no need to disturb that pile until forced to at RMD time (most likely in 9 or 10 years) and just let it grow invested at around 90% equity funds tracking the S&P.
My investments have been allowed to just compound for the past 10 years, otherwise, it would not be as large as it is today.
I also inherited some money when my father passed away last year. It sits in my checking account and used to gift for now.

 

[Midpack]

So FIRE does not include SS and pension income? Please advise.

Few if any are 100% FIRE or SIRE, most are a combination.

https://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/poll-sire-vs-fire-at-er-org-94307.html

 

[jollystomper]

non-cola pension (73k/yr)that, even after 4 years of inflation, covers most of our expenses. With DW's SS + investment income, or WR since my retirement has been around %1 so we still have well more than when I retired. Whenever I decide to take SS, we'll become savers again (though in practice will probably increase spending, primarily gift giving).

 

[scrabbler1]

Is anyone here have something called a "Cash Balance" program which is a hybrid of DB (pension) and DC (401k) programs?

When my former employer changed its retirement programs at the end of 2001, it grandfathered its pension program for employees who met age and tenure requirements. Those (like me) who weren't grandfathered had their accumulated pensions frozen and subsequent would-be pension credits turned into Cash Balance credits (a combination of salary and interest contributions). Future hires were placed into Cash Balance until that was discontinued for new hires a few years later and replaced with a profit sharing plan.

Every year, including after I left the company, I get a benefits statement telling me how much my pension and CB benefits are worth. The pension amount, of course, doesn't change from year to year. The CB part rises slightly due to the interest credit. I can annuitize the CB part or take it as a lump sum after I turn 65 (although there were some circumstances where I could take it earlier). The CB part isn't worth much because it includes only the 7 years I worked P/T.

 

[old medic]

So I'll will say we are SIRE, Pension is more than my former take home by about 10%.
Defined state pension with 100% survivors benefit. No set COLA but does get some (5% is currently in the works), DW is under the same retirement system in about 5 years. Both will have SS in the future. Both have 401K and Roth that currently equal 7 years of expenses.

 

[Alan]

Is anyone here have something called a "Cash Balance" program which is a hybrid of DB (pension) and DC (401k) programs?

When my former employer changed its retirement programs at the end of 2001, it grandfathered its pension program for employees who met age and tenure requirements. Those (like me) who weren't grandfathered had their accumulated pensions frozen and subsequent would-be pension credits turned into Cash Balance credits (a combination of salary and interest contributions). Future hires were placed into Cash Balance until that was discontinued for new hires a few years later and replaced with a profit sharing plan.

Every year, including after I left the company, I get a benefits statement telling me how much my pension and CB benefits are worth. The pension amount, of course, doesn't change from year to year. The CB part rises slightly due to the interest credit. I can annuitize the CB part or take it as a lump sum after I turn 65 (although there were some circumstances where I could take it earlier). The CB part isn't worth much because it includes only the 7 years I worked P/T.

This was the case with my wife. She had a 401k with the same company that had converted her DB pension into a cash balance scheme and the company made contributions to it each year, along with continuing the matching contributions to her 401k. When she left the company the cash balance was added into her 401k which she then rolled over into an IRA with Fidelity.