Project AZORIAN

[Fermion]

I just stumbled across this story that reads like fiction and yet is a real life event in history.

Why in the world is this not a big blockbuster movie? Why do we get Spiderman 17 and Terminator 47 and not something like this?

Billionaire eccentric constructing giant ship to mine the ocean floor, but really a covert CIA operation to recover a lost Soviet sub, all while being curiously watched by Soviet ships. After that a robbery, more coverup.

Simply perfect for a big movie.

 

[mz44]

A great book to read!

 

[Gumby]

There have been documentaries; you can find them on YouTube. Search for Glomar.

 

[W2R]

My late ex worked on both the GLOMAR Explorer, and the GLOMAR Challenger as lead electronics tech, for much of the remainder of his career after he left the Navy. They were doing some interesting stuff, much of it classified, but obviously he did not tell me the details of anything classified. Nor did I want him to do so. Wikipedia tells me enough.

 

[NW-Bound]

While classified data cannot never be disclosed, there are black projects where people cannot even mention it, or confirm its existence. This project had to be one of these. I will research and read further for more details, and to see when the info was released.

The F-117 and the B-2 used to be black projects too. Then, it was no longer a big deal. These planes have been on display at the Air Force Museum at Wright-Patterson for some years.

 

[W2R]

My late ex worked on both the GLOMAR Explorer, and the GLOMAR Challenger as lead electronics tech, for much of the remainder of his career after he left the Navy. They were doing some interesting stuff, much of it classified, but obviously he did not tell me the details of anything classified. Nor did I want him to do so. Wikipedia tells me enough.

While classified data cannot never be disclosed, there are black projects where people cannot even mention it, or confirm its existence. This project had to be one of these.

Yes, surely it was. Although Project Azorian was (probably? mostly?) before our time since he left the Navy in 1978, obviously in his position he knew about such things should there have ever been any further projects. I am convinced that there was something going on but thank goodness I have absolutely no confirmation or proof of that. When our conversations veered too close to something he was uncomfortable with, as his wife I could sense his unease and we would abruptly change the subject. He did not want to reveal such things and I didn't want to know. He died last year.

 

[camfused]

On a slightly related note, I was somewhat surprised to see a KH-9 (Keyhole 9) satellite on display at the Museum of the Air Force at Wright-Patterson AFB. The tour guide said we could look at it (from a distance of about 2 meters), but if you get any closer, and alarm will go off, due to the insides still being classified.

BTW, Museum of the Air Force at Wright-Patterson AFB is a must see!

 

[NW-Bound]

Yes, surely it was. Although Project Azorian was (probably? mostly?) before our time since he left the Navy in 1978, obviously in his position he knew about such things should there have ever been any further projects. I am convinced that there was something going on but thank goodness I have absolutely no confirmation or proof of that. When our conversations veered too close to something he was uncomfortable with, as his wife I could sense his unease and we would abruptly change the subject. He did not want to reveal such things and I didn't want to know. He died last year.

Most of the classified projects people work on are overt projects. This means the public knows about them and their objectives, such as various "Star War" or anti-ballistic programs. The detailed technical data, or even performance data, cannot be disclosed or discussed, but people all know what is being worked on.

Black projects cannot be disclosed at all, even their existence. One does not even tell his spouse.

 

[W2R]

Most of the classified projects people work on are overt projects. This means the public knows about them and their objectives, such as various "Star War" or anti-ballistic programs. The detailed technical data, or even performance data, cannot be disclosed or discussed, but people all know what is being worked on.

Black projects cannot be disclosed at all, even their existence. One does not even tell his spouse.

Oh, no, none of the projects he was involved with were public knowledge AFAIK! Wow. So by your definition, they were not classified. F is sitting here and he says the same for classified projects he has worked with, that were not public knowledge.

 

[NW-Bound]

Black projects are of course the top level in classified projects.

Nearly all military projects involve classified data. Only a few are black.

Black projects are often conducted in remote locations, such as out in the Mohave desert, or a remote site somewhere in Idaho or Montana, in order to be away from prying eyes of the enemies.

PS. For example, the US Navy has a nuclear research lab in the middle of nowhere in Idaho. I guess you cannot even approach it within a few miles without being detected, as surrounding it is just empty land.

 

[W2R]

Black projects are of course the top level in classified projects.

Nearly all military projects involve classified data. Only a few are black.

Black projects are often conducted in remote locations, such as out in the Mohave desert, or a remote site somewhere in Idaho or Montana.

Or the bottom of the sea, or outer space..... Please, I know what I am talking about.

 

[NW-Bound]

Sure.

Big projects are often divided into such small pieces that a worker only knows one bitty aspect of it, and even if that bitty piece is disclosed, it is not going to hurt that much. He often does not know how the piece he is working on fits into the bigger project. It's all about the need to know, and one is only allowed to know enough to do his little part.

What I find interesting is that it is a lot harder to keep the ultimate objective of the project known to only a few. In this case, the ultimate goal is to salvage a Soviet sub, yet they had to keep that known to as few as possible.

 

[W2R]

Sure.

Big projects are often divided into such small pieces that a worker only knows one bitty aspect of it, and even if that bitty piece is disclosed, it is not going to hurt that much. He often does not know how the piece he is working on fits into the bigger project. It's all about the need to know, and one is only allowed to know enough to do his little part.

What I find interesting is that it is a lot harder to keep the ultimate objective of the project known to only a few. In this case, the ultimate goal is to salvage a Soviet sub, yet they had to keep that known to as few as possible.

Absolutely. According to the Wikipedia article I linked to (whew! esoteric! ), the nature of the late 1974 project to which you refer was published in the LA Times in February, 1975. It has been common knowledge among the public for the past 44+ years, from 1975 until 2019.

I am really not getting much value out of this discussion. So, I'm going to bed. Have a nice night!

 

[NW-Bound]

I just stumbled across this story that reads like fiction and yet is a real life event in history.

Why in the world is this not a big blockbuster movie? Why do we get Spiderman 17 and Terminator 47 and not something like this?

Billionaire eccentric constructing giant ship to mine the ocean floor, but really a covert CIA operation to recover a lost Soviet sub, all while being curiously watched by Soviet ships. After that a robbery, more coverup.

Simply perfect for a big movie.

Hmmm... I did not know about this till now. I was busy with "other things" back in 1974.

Black projects are like a conspiracy. You can keep a conspiracy to a handful of people, but when the work involves a few thousands, well, someone is bound to talk.

On the other hand, below are what I found about better examples of keeping a huge project a secret.

Project Azorian was a secret from 1968 until 1974. Perhaps 6 years is about as long as you can keep something a secret. Had it gone on for longer, I think the Manhattan Project would be leaked too.

The Battle of Normandy in 1944 is an example of a need-to-know restriction. Though thousands of military personnel were involved in planning the invasion, only a small number of them knew the entire scope of the operation; the rest were only informed of data needed to complete a small part of the plan. The same is true of the Trinity project, the first test of a nuclear weapon in 1945.