Quick Windows 8.1 Questions

[TromboneAl]

I know I should search for a windows 8.1 forum and ask there, but these are easy questions, and I'm tired of joining new forums. Perhaps others have some questions as well.

On the apps page I want to see ALL my apps sorted alphabetically. All of them. But even when I choose "Apps By Name" many are put in categories:

So why isn't, for example, the "Kindle Previewer" under "K," and how can I put it there?

Thanks,

 

[KingB]

Move the bottom bar to the left to show your missing apps.

 

[rbmrtn]

It's another poorly implemented feature. You are looking at the "all apps" view which is akin to "all programs" in previous versions. It doesn't show folders but your kindle app is basically in a folder. In the previous version "all programs" list program links first, then folders when sorted by name. This is doing the same thing ( not as obvious ).

"C:\programdata\microsoft\windows\startmenu\prgrams" is where it all is stored

 

[bUU]

If I already know the name of what I'm looking for, I just type it in.

 

[Midpack]

Move the bottom bar to the left to show your missing apps.

If using a mouse, you can also use your scroll wheel instead of the slider if you like. Seems faster to me.

 

[KingB]

If using a mouse, you can also use your scroll wheel instead of the slider if you like. Seems faster to me.

And since he has touchscreen, he can also use it to scroll the page.

 

[TromboneAl]

Note that scrolling doesn't help. The issue is that since not all of the apps are alphabetized by name, you can't find "Kindle Previewer" by scrolling to the "K"s.

It doesn't show folders but your kindle app is basically in a folder. In the previous version "all programs" list program links first, then folders when sorted by name. This is doing the same thing ( not as obvious ).

Yes, but in XP, I could simply drag an item out of a folder and into the list of non-foldered items. I had control. That doesn't work here. I guess I'll have to play around in that program data folder if I want to get all apps in one list.

 

[rbmrtn]

Note that scrolling doesn't help. The issue is that since not all of the apps are alphabetized by name, you can't find "Kindle Previewer" by scrolling to the "K"s.



Yes, but in XP, I could simply drag an item out of a folder and into the list of non-foldered items. I guess I'll have to play around in that program data folder.

Yep, it seems that manipulating things directly from the "apps view" is not available. Manually do what you want in the folder, you can put a shortcut to your kindle app in the folder and then it should show in the "apps view".

And with 8.1 you can go back to a normal desktop where the drag-n-drop still works and bypass the tiles/apps interface

 

[TromboneAl]

Here's a funny thing.

Note in the screenshot above that the apps are alphabetized column-wise. That is, you go down the first column then on to the next.

Check out the alphabetization in the control panel (with small icons chosen):

It's row-wise.

How does that happen? Did Microsoft not notice? Did they think it was a good idea? I know it's not a good idea, because there are many posts in forums from users complaining that the icons are not in alphabetical order--they don't realize that it's alphabetized row-wise.

 

[rbmrtn]

It's row-wise.

How does that happen? Did Microsoft not notice? Did they think it was a good idea? I know it's not a good idea, because there are many posts in forums from users complaining that the icons are not in alphabetical order--they don't realize that it's alphabetized row-wise.

That's been that way for a while, since vista, for the control panel view you posted.

 

[TromboneAl]

That's been that way for a while, since vista, for the control panel view you posted.

Interesting. So they must think it's a good idea. Can you think of any advantage of having it like that?

 

[ERD50]

Interesting. So they must think it's a good idea. Can you think of any advantage of having it like that?

Worst thing is that it is inconsistent.

Personally, I prefer the column order. I find it much harder to scan a row with 3-4 entries and then down and to the right again. A long vertical list just seems so much easier to scan. Plus, it isn't immediately obvious which is which, as a row alpha is also a column alpha.

This is making some of my nit-picking of changes going from Xubuntu 12.04 to Xubuntu 14.04 seem very trivial. The best part is, I've found the configuration settings to change most of my issues - and one minor one, which I've 80% 'fixed' requires a mod and recompile of the app (simple cut/paste instructions will do it, I don't really have to know much of anything tech-y to do it). I probably won't bother, but it's nice to know I have the option.

-ERD50

 

[rbmrtn]

Interesting. So they must think it's a good idea. Can you think of any advantage of having it like that?

I wouldn't go as far as saying they "thought it was a good idea", they may not have even thought about it. But I suppose most people read things across a page and not up and down, my guess. Actually I think that display goes all the way back to NT.

Here's a Win 3.1 control panel

http://toastytech.com/guis/win31control1.png

And NT control panel

http://toastytech.com/guis/nt4control.gif

 

[TromboneAl]

I wouldn't go as far as saying they "thought it was a good idea", they may not have even thought about it.

Well, that's what gets me. They've had 14 years to think about it.

Here's another example: Knowing what version of software you have is often crucial. There's never been a good way to ask your windows software what version it is. With 8.1, you type winver, and when you do that, this is what you get:

Which tells me that I have either Windows 8 or Windows 6.3. Or, maybe, if I go by the trademark notice, I have Windows 8.1.

So, no one at Microsoft ever thought about this? No one looked at the dialog and said, "Well, gee, that's confusing."

 

[target2019]

Well, that's what gets me. They've had 14 years to think about it.

Here's another example: Knowing what version of software you have is often crucial. There's never been a good way to ask your windows software what version it is. With 8.1, you type winver, and when you do that, this is what you get:

snip

Which tells me that I have either Windows 8 or Windows 6.3. Or, maybe, if I go by the trademark notice, I have Windows 8.1.

So, no one at Microsoft ever thought about this? No one looked at the dialog and said, "Well, gee, that's confusing."

Uh, I have your email now, Al. Did you intend that?

 

[TromboneAl]

Uh, I have your email now, Al. Did you intend that?

Didn't intend that, thanks. I fixed the image.

 

[ERD50]

Well, that's what gets me. They've had 14 years to think about it.

Here's another example: Knowing what version of software you have is often crucial. There's never been a good way to ask your windows software what version it is. With 8.1, you type winver, and when you do that, this is what you get: ....

Which tells me that I have either Windows 8 or Windows 6.3. Or, maybe, if I go by the trademark notice, I have Windows 8.1.

So, no one at Microsoft ever thought about this? No one looked at the dialog and said, "Well, gee, that's confusing."

Yep, stuff like that just amazes me. In so many ways, technology is so fantastic, but then the ball is dropped in ways that a 3rd grader could recognize. Somebody had to put that together, others had to approve it. How can it happen? These aren't amateurs.

Apple has it's own set of 'what were (weren't?) they thinking?' issues. And like I mentioned earlier about my Xubuntu upgrade - the simple application menu system was updated, and seems several steps backwards to me. I was able to install the old style, but it seems to have some conflicts and is a bit flaky. I'll get it straightened out, but...what were they thinking?

-ERD50

 

[meierlde]

Well, that's what gets me. They've had 14 years to think about it.

Here's another example: Knowing what version of software you have is often crucial. There's never been a good way to ask your windows software what version it is. With 8.1, you type winver, and when you do that, this is what you get:

Which tells me that I have either Windows 8 or Windows 6.3. Or, maybe, if I go by the trademark notice, I have Windows 8.1.

So, no one at Microsoft ever thought about this? No one looked at the dialog and said, "Well, gee, that's confusing."

Note that windows 8 is version 6.2 build 9200. that is the official version, all other naming like Windows 8 and windows 8.1 is marketing speak. Here is a link to a page at microsoft that translates between the marketing speak and the version numbers: Operating System Version (Windows)
Note that windows 7 is version 6.1 at build 7600 or 7601 if sp1, and windows xp is build 2600. version 5.x Windows Vista was the first version 6.0 system.

 

[TromboneAl]

Yep, stuff like that just amazes me. In so many ways, technology is so fantastic, but then the ball is dropped in ways that a 3rd grader could recognize. Somebody had to put that together, others had to approve it. How can it happen? These aren't amateurs.

I usually attribute it to three causes:

1. Design by committee.

2. Young phenoms that are too clever for their (and our) good.

3. That guy in high school who was charismatic, but dumb and never studied.

Still, I don't understand how these things get through.

Another problem is people who are too tolerant of complexity. We needed someone who would look at the registry and all the DLLs and different drivers, and say "Hold on, this is too complicated. Let's go back to the old DOS system of putting everything in one directory with INI files for settings. As an example, below is what Corel told me to do to get Paint Shop Pro working on Win 8.1.

I. DELETE PROGRAM FILE FOLDERS

Browse to the following folder:
C:\Program Files (x86)\Corel
Delete the Corel Paintshop Pro X6 folder

C:\Program Files\Corel
Delete the Corel Paintshop Pro X6(64-bit) folder

Press and hold the Windows key on your keyboard and click on the letter R to open the Run prompt, type "%programdata%". Click OK. Browse to Corel, delete PaintShop Pro X6.

Press and hold the Windows key on your keyboard and click on the letter R to open the Run prompt, type "%appdata%". Click OK. This will open the "Appdata\Roaming" folder, so go back up on one folder and choose the folder named "Local" instead. Open the Corel PaintShop Pro folder and delete the 16.0 folder.


II. CREATE A BACK-UP OF THE REGISTRY
1. Press and hold the Windows key on your keyboard and click on the letter R to open the Run prompt, type "regedit" on the Open box.
2. On the Registry Editor window, click File > Export.
3. Type "reg_backup <date>" as the file name. Make sure that the save as type is set to "Registration Files (*.reg)".
4. Click Save.

Proceed to the following steps once saving is finished.


III. DELETE REGISTRY ENTRIES

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
1. Open the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE folder and browse to Software. Locate and open the Corel folder then delete the following folders:
- PaintShop Merge > 16.0
- PaintShop Pro > 16.0
- PCU > Licenses > 540214299
- PCU > Licenses > 540218329

2. Open the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE folder and browse to Software. Look for Microsoft > Windows > CurrentVersion > Installer > UserData > S-1-5-18 > Products. Locate and delete the following folders:
- 1E43D46117200694A8628E99A003D21B
- 1EE600617BDDF5E46869F9FE230C51A1
- 43328561C594C1F46AB6B3DF88666B47
- 6BC1D661A8DDDD04E952D4132D6DEDD4
- 6D2DB26136C67A141815398148053DA6
- A2B64361CB78C704D9B6274A2DA1FB30
- C68F8761D988891428944F26058552B6
- E26BA1616D565E643B8DA21CD5B329B0
- EFEE0228DC83E77358593193D847A0EC

3. Open the HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE folder and browse to Software > Wow6432Node. Locate and open the Corel folder then delete the following folders:
- PaintShop Merge > X6
- PaintShop Pro > X6
- PCU > Licenses > 540214299
- PCU > Licenses > 540218329


HKEY_CURRENT_USER
Open the HKEY_CURRENT_USER folder and browse to Software. Locate and open the Corel folder then delete the following folders:
- Global > Paint Shop Pro X6
- PaintShop Merge > X6
- PaintShop Pro > X6


HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT
Open the HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT folder and browse to Installer. Open the Products folder and delete the following folders:
- 1E43D46117200694A8628E99A003D21B
- 1EE600617BDDF5E46869F9FE230C51A1
- 43328561C594C1F46AB6B3DF88666B47
- 6BC1D661A8DDDD04E952D4132D6DEDD4
- 6D2DB26136C67A141815398148053DA6
- A2B64361CB78C704D9B6274A2DA1FB30
- C68F8761D988891428944F26058552B6
- E26BA1616D565E643B8DA21CD5B329B0
- EFEE0228DC83E77358593193D847A0EC

 

[bUU]

Still, I don't understand how these things get through.

As others have alluded to, they're not "getting through". They're highly integral business decisions, and reflections of what are higher priorities than the imperatives you would rate highly. In the United States, sales and marketing have overwhelming primacy on product packaging. As much as some of these things disturb you, there is no reason to believe that they adversely affect what's important to sales and marketing more than the positive affect they yield from the execution of their plans which work against your preferences.

Another problem is people who are too tolerant of complexity. We needed someone who would look at the registry and all the DLLs and different drivers, and say "Hold on, this is too complicated. Let's go back to the old DOS system of putting everything in one directory with INI files for settings.

Because you know so much about operating systems as to know that that will perform and scale as well as the Windows Registry? Really? You're basically advocating for a crappy, slow operating system, impossible to manage in the enterprise. Sorry - no sale.

 

[davismills]

I use Classic Shell and now my Windows 8.1 looks more like Windows 7. Best move I've ever made.
Classic Shell - Start menu and other Windows enhancements

 

[TromboneAl]

there is no reason to believe that they adversely affect what's important to sales and marketing more than the positive affect they yield from the execution of their plans which work against your preferences.

I'm willing to believe that you are correct, but can't believe that having two inconsistent alphabetizing schemes or a confusing about box helps marketing or sales.

Here's another example of grayed out items, with no easy way to discover why they are grayed out (I know the answer on this one):

 

[rbmrtn]

It was much easier to write code for an ansi console, what was on the screen was what you got, no options. Then along comes GUI, with a 1000 ways to display the same info... sometimes what makes perfect sense to some seems stupid to others.

The registry has been an object of discussion ever since they introduced it. There are whole forums devoted to it .... Here's link to one ( I think originally on slashdot)

Why are INI files deprecated in favor of the registry? - The Old New Thing - Site Home - MSDN Blogs

 

[meierlde]

I'm willing to believe that you are correct, but can't believe that having two inconsistent alphabetizing schemes or a confusing about box helps marketing or sales.

Here's another example of grayed out items, with no easy way to discover why they are grayed out (I know the answer on this one):

Actually just above the part that is shown on the same pane is a line change unavailable options that ungreys out the greyed out options.
(at least if you have administrator access)

 

[TromboneAl]

Actually just above the part that is shown on the same pane is a line change unavailable options that ungreys out the greyed out options.
(at least if you have administrator access)

Yes, but that is not easily discoverable.

OK, I couldn't resist making the about box easier to understand (this is for all the people who turn on their new machine and wonder "Did I get Windows 8 or Windows 8.1?":



The problem is that the name of the windows product, used to be the version number, such as Windows 3.1. Then they went to names such as NT, XP, Vista. But starting with Windows 7, they used numbers as the name of the product, and had separate version numbers.

If they went back to the original system (by just bumping the version number up), it would be least confusing of all.