Saturated Fat up, stroke down..!

Chuckanut said:
So when will those people who had us eating high-transfat margarine, lots more processed carbs, sugary non-fat cookies and muffins, and cutting down on cheese and full fat yogurt going to apologize for misleading us?
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Not any time soon. Remember the margarine commercials? "No cholesterol! No animal fats!" Downright scary.
 
JoeWras said:
Not any time soon. Remember the margarine commercials? "No cholesterol! No animal fats!" Downright scary.
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I remember them. I also remember that a certain chocolate sugar bomb cereal had a healthy for the heart label on the box. They lost the label after an article appeared questioning the wisdom of the labeling.
 
We should keep in mind that one study, no matter how well done, is rarely the definitive last word in the area of human health. While this one gives us pause to wonder about the dietary advice we have been given (both its accuracy and how it was influenced) I don't think it's an excuse to start eating 'fat-bombs', and never allowing a grain of wheat to enter our body again.
 
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aja8888 said:
I thought we knew that already after 23 threads here on the same subject in the last few years.:D
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Last few years? How about the last few WEEKS? I have noticed that there seems to be a LOT of rehashing going on around these parts. Maybe some of it is that I have "come to the end of the internet" but it sure seems like there have been a LOT of threads that are just...um, a waste of cyberspace? I don't know..maybe it's just me.
 
Chuckanut said:
We should keep in mind that one study, no matter how well done, is rarely the definitive last word in the area of human health. While this one gives us pause to wonder about the dietary advice we have been given (both its accuracy and how it was influenced) I don't think it's an excuse to start eating 'fat-bombs', and never allowing a grain of wheat to enter our body again.
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Agree. Someone mentioned moderation. Yep.

But I think I'm giving up skim milk.
 
ExFlyBoy5 said:
Last few years? How about the last few WEEKS? I have noticed that there seems to be a LOT of rehashing going on around these parts. Maybe some of it is that I have "come to the end of the internet" but it sure seems like there have been a LOT of threads that are just...um, a waste of cyberspace? I don't know..maybe it's just me.
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And yet, we're here posting comments and propagating the thread... ;)
 
Chuckanut said:
Increasing carbs is "likely damaging"

Increasing fats is "protective"

"too low fats and to high fats are bad"

"no data to reduce the fat content of milk"

"saturated fats is neutral"

So when will those people who had us eating high-transfat margarine, lots more processed carbs, sugary non-fat cookies and muffins, drinking low-fat chocolate milk instead of whole milk, and cutting down on cheese and full fat yogurt going to apologize for misleading us?
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That "too high fats is bad" statement is likely cya. None of this PURE data says anything but fat is good, and the more the better. Especially as regards monounsaturated fats. When I was reading somewhere in this stuff, I think some older Finnish study is the source of that too high fats is bad. I am not sure, and also I don't really care. For me, I could not eat only fat, because I really like vegetables. My maternal GPs were mixed farmers, and I early took to eating vegetables. When I was 8 I went around with maybe the most beautiful and tastiest tomatos that I might pick from GPs garden, and sole them to local families.

Anyway, lower fat means higher carb, and higher fat means lower carb, since humans always seem to choose protein from a fairly narrow band somewhere around 15% total calories. Then there is the contention that processed carbs are bad true enough, but whole grains are good. Like much of this, this seems to more or less be a fairy tale, though added sugars do seem to be evil, and the fructose molecules in these seems to have some considerable toxicity.

People did survive very well well into the 50s and 60s, eating many different things. Not sure what caused the jump in male middle aged MIs during this time, but it seems likely that it was not from eating too much butter or olive oil, or too many vegetables.

Ha
 
haha said:
People did survive very well well into the 50s and 60s, eating many different things. Not sure what caused the jump in male middle aged MIs during this time, but it seems likely that it was not from eating too much butter or olive oil, or too many vegetables.
Ha
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Smoking. Huge factor. And a move to more sedentary lifestyle. Sitting in an office and smoking? Bad!

There are all kinds of breakouts on the Framington study. One of the ones that was interesting was that the longshoremen (old school, before the massive mechanization) seemed to not have the MI risk of the general population, even though smoking was very high among them. I think this was one of the initial studies that woke up the establishment in a big way to the benefit of exercise.
 
Who are these people, who had you eating such things?

How come I knew they were full of empty calories when I was 17?

In fact, how come I knew the term "empty calories" when I was 17?

I must have read it somewhere, which means someone was publishing articles on nutrition that a 17-year-old would read. And they were not urging me to substitute chocolate milk for regular.

When the Snackwell cookies came out, there were plenty of articles pointing out that these new cookies had just as many calories as the regular kind. I think I ate one that somebody brought in to work, and thought it tasted pretty blah.

Chuckanut said:
I
So when will those people who had us eating high-transfat margarine, lots more processed carbs, sugary non-fat cookies and muffins, drinking low-fat chocolate milk instead of whole milk, and cutting down on cheese and full fat yogurt going to apologize for misleading us?
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Greek Yogurt. Plain. No sugar, no honey, no processed fruit. Yes it's full fat, but, you don't eat as much. And just like whole milk it tastes good. Add to it what your palate tells you it needs to taste good.

There is something appealing to eating the types of food that are available without a lot of chemical processes to make it less fat and easier to consume. Could be the taste, and when using some self-control and moderation, it's probably life-giving. Note: I DID NOT SAY good for you.

Rita
 
So there are "experts" and "studies" claiming carbs are bad, fat is good.
And there are other "experts and "studies" claiming animal based protein is bad and we should go to a 100% plant based diet.

Even in this thread there is discussion of legumes being good... but aren't they also carbs - which are bad?

I'm choosing to ignore it all... eat food that is recognizable to it's basic ingredients (so getting rid of a lot of processed food.) Eating lots of veggies, lots of fruit (oh no!!! carbs!!!) and lots of beans, some meat, some dairy. In other words... I'm eating a relatively healthy diet.

I'm losing some much needed weight - but I think that has a lot more to do with the increased swimming I'm doing than the food intake.
 
Amethyst said:
Who are these people, who had you eating such things?
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I can't speak for Chuckanut. Let me tell you my story.

These people are primarily ME.

Doctor and books say: "Don't eat fat." I say: "OK, I'll eat no-fat items."

I'm hungry, because I'm not eating fat. I need something. Better stay away from the chips/crisps, because they have fat. Oh, those low-fat/no-fat snacks look good!

And before you know it, it is a habit.

It is a habit that can be justified, poorly, I know. There always was a little voice saying: "You really can't do this." But when you are hungry, the brain shrinks.
 
rodi said:
So there are "experts" and "studies" claiming carbs are bad, fat is good.
And there are other "experts and "studies" claiming animal based protein is bad and we should go to a 100% plant based diet.

Even in this thread there is discussion of legumes being good... but aren't they also carbs - which are bad?

I'm choosing to ignore it all... eat food that is recognizable to it's basic ingredients (so getting rid of a lot of processed food.) Eating lots of veggies, lots of fruit (oh no!!! carbs!!!) and lots of beans, some meat, some dairy. In other words... I'm eating a relatively healthy diet.

I'm losing some much needed weight - but I think that has a lot more to do with the increased swimming I'm doing than the food intake.
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+1

There have been so many studies that have been put out in the last 25 years that have been disputed by new studies. I have been told to drink more water due to a history of gout to being told not to drink too much water because I am taking a water pill for BP.

Comes down to:

Don't eat like a pig
Limit portions
Everything in moderation
Exercise

BTW, just read an article that said exercise is good but not the main way to lose weight (eat less). I'm so confused!
 
Amethyst said:
. And they were not urging me to substitute chocolate milk for regular.
.
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Here's an example, unless I don't remember correctly, the Feds forced most school districts to take whole milk off the menu, but did allow chocolate non-fat milk which had added sugar.

And, there is the very reputable heart health outfit that gave it's endorsement to a chocolate sugar bomb cereal. Now, if that is not urging people to eat the wrong foods, I don't know what is.

Is Cocoa Puffs no longer heart healthy?

Then there is the movement to replaced saturated fats with trans-fats since trans-fats were supposedly better for us:

http://www.academia.edu/1429225/The...me_the_Healthy_Replacement_for_Saturated_Fats

In the 1980s, responding to the connection that medical authorities made between saturated fats and heart disease, CSPI and another activist organization, the National Heart Savers Association (NHSA), campaigned vigorously against corporations’ use of saturated fats, endorsing trans fats as a healthy, or healthier, alternative. Many contemporaneous medical authorities shared the view that trans fats were healthier than saturated fats.
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Chuckanut said:
So when will those people who had us eating high-transfat margarine, lots more processed carbs, sugary non-fat cookies and muffins, drinking low-fat chocolate milk instead of whole milk, and cutting down on cheese and full fat yogurt going to apologize for misleading us?
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This is what Max Plank said about the apology we will never receive.

"A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.":LOL:

I suspect they will continue to defend their ideas until they die as Plank suggests.

FN
 
JoeWras said:
Smoking. Huge factor. And a move to more sedentary lifestyle. Sitting in an office and smoking? Bad!

There are all kinds of breakouts on the Framington study. One of the ones that was interesting was that the longshoremen (old school, before the massive mechanization) seemed to not have the MI risk of the general population, even though smoking was very high among them. I think this was one of the initial studies that woke up the establishment in a big way to the benefit of exercise.
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Interesting, thanks.

Ha
 
I always take ANY study with a grain of salt (or spoon of bacon grease). You have to look at the motivations of the study, who paid for it, and exactly WHAT was studied. I have read enough studies about how crappy studies can be that I tend to discount ALL of them.

My Dad recently turned 90. He smoked for 35+ years, has had a drink (or 4 or 5) every day of his life for the last 70 years. When Mom was still around and cooking, every single vegetable we had was made even better with a goop of bacon fat. Now, he eats almost nothing but microwave meals and oatmeal. He has diminished lung capacity and a-fib, but that's about it. He lives an independent life and does pretty much everything he wants to do. So what does this mean? As far as I am concerned, there are SOOO many factors into leading a healthy, long life that I take a common sense approach with my choices. Everything from what I eat, to how I drive, to what I spend my money on. And I realize that in the end, how long I live will boil down to these common sense approaches and luck.
 
Chuckanut said:
Increasing carbs is "likely damaging"

Increasing fats is "protective"

"too low fats and to high fats are bad"

"no data to reduce the fat content of milk"

"saturated fats is neutral"

So when will those people who had us eating high-transfat margarine, lots more processed carbs, sugary non-fat cookies and muffins, drinking low-fat chocolate milk instead of whole milk, and cutting down on cheese and full fat yogurt going to apologize for misleading us?
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I want to know when they will be physically HARMED because they have it coming to them! bring out the waterboard and the 24 hour live streaming
 
Interesting to note - the much maligned Ancel Keys lived to the age of 100, presumably following his own advice.
After observing in southern Italy the highest concentration of centenarians in the world, Keys hypothesized that a Mediterranean-style diet low in animal fat protected against heart disease and that a diet high in animal fats led to heart disease. The results of what later became known as the Seven Countries Study appeared to show that serum cholesterol was strongly related to coronary heart disease mortality both at the population and at the individual level.[28][29] As a result, in 1956 representatives of the American Heart Association appeared on television to inform people that a diet which included large amounts of butter, lard, eggs, and beef would lead to coronary heart disease. This resulted in the American government recommending that people adopt a low-fat diet in order to prevent heart disease.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancel_Keys
 
bjorn2bwild said:
Interesting to note - the much maligned Ancel Keys lived to the age of 100, presumably following his own advice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancel_Keys
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Except that a mediterranean diet is definitely not low in animal fat.

And one guy who was a genetic freak doesn't really mean anything. Like the people, some referred to here, who smoke, drink, and don't even think about what they eat who live long robust lives
 
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