Saving on vehicle costs

[NW-Bound]

Of course, in my case, using the same fuel, the variations in MPG are most likely caused by the wind. And a 10-mph wind is enough to have a noticeable effect.

I have absolutely no problem with that; wind drag goes up as the square of airspeed (I have spent quite a few years working on manned and unmanned things that went airborne).

The reason I never thought about this was that the trip was short enough that I never stopped for a rest or for refueling. Yet, the route is over varying terrains in a mountainous area, and the wind along the way may vary greatly from trip to trip. I never thought of it because I did not stop to get outside the car to observe. This is an example of how one can overlook something right under his nose.

And I remember one extreme case that I experienced. In the 80s, we used to make road trips to visit my aunt in the LA area. The one-way distance was a little less than 400 mi. On a 20-gal tank, and with the gas mileage in those days, if I refilled when the tank was 1/8 full, I could almost reach my aunt's place driving non-stop. There was only one time that I did not have to refuel. Most of the time, I did not want to push it, and had to refuel about 30 or 40 miles out.

Then, there was this single time I had to refuel in Indio. That was about 50 miles out from where I usually stopped, for a range of about 290 mi instead of the usual 340 mi. That's a huge difference.

So, I thought to myself, the engine got some real trouble, and I might need to look into it. When I pulled into the gas station, stopped and opened the door, my question was answered. I had to lean 30 deg into the wind to walk. The MPG ratio was a lot worse than the 290/340 = 85%, because that wind was not blowing the entire 290 miles, only over a shorter leg.

Some people here would know how strong the wind can be in Indio or Banning, where they have been erecting electric windmills since the 70s. On some days, it can even be a hell of a lot stronger than it usually is, as I found out, though the wind direction stays fairly constant.

 

[NW-Bound]

OK, so let's get back to engine knock or detonation.

Back in the 70s, which means I am talking about cars that were made in the late 60s as well as the early 70s, my family and I had so many problems with engine knock and dieseling on different cars. Yes, remember the engine running-on problem after you shut off the ignition, on a hot day?

Nowadays, with fuel injection instead of carburetors, once one shuts off the ignition, there is no fuel to feed the engine. So dieseling can never happen with FI.

I remember back then that, short of removing the heads and cleaning up the carbon deposits, one could only try different fuel additives to remove that carbon. There was only one brand, a more expensive one, that would work. I cannot remember that now.

What was/is your experience?

 

[ERD50]

OK, so let's get back to engine knock or detonation. ...

I remember back then that, short of removing the heads and cleaning up the carbon deposits, one could only try different fuel additives to remove that carbon. There was only one brand, a more expensive one, that would work. I cannot remember that now.

What was/is your experience?

Rev up the engine (grabbing the throttle arm with your hand) while spritzing water into the carb throat with the other hand. Theory was that the water basically 'steam-cleaned' the carbon deposits off. I guess you would not know for sure w/o removing the head to see. But it seemed to work.

The warning was not to get too much water in at once - too much water could cause a flood in a piston, and the non-compressible liquid could damage the engine. But I'd assume the engine would just quit before that could happen.

I recall we had a car that was having a moderate knock problem, it was noticeable under medium/hard acceleration. We drove to Milwaukee one day (~ 80 miles), and on the way back was a steady rain and mist from the highway. About 2/3 of the way home, the knocking stopped. I attributed it to the constant moisture being sucked in and blowing out the carbon, but who knows? Could have just been the sustained highway speeds, with or w/o the added moisture.

-ERD50

 

[MDJO]

Love the thought of the old days when we used to floor it to "blow out the carbon" and lay down some rubber, as well.

 

[Ronstar]

Love the thought of the old days when we used to floor it to "blow out the carbon" and lay down some rubber, as well.

Yes - it seems like yesterday - it was - but I don't have the gearing and skinny tires like the old days

 

[NW-Bound]

Theory was that the water basically 'steam-cleaned' the carbon deposits off. I guess you would not know for sure w/o removing the head to see. But it seemed to work.
-ERD50

I never heard of this trick back when I needed it. But now hearing about your method, I am sure that it would work. Here's why.

Some time in the early 80s, I had to pull the head off my 1975 280Z. The head gasket had blown, and coolant got into one cylinder. The cylinder dome and the top of the piston were super clean!

Anyway, I have not worked on as many engines as some people here (I am no car enthusiast, and only did it to save money), but have pulled heads of 5 engines in my life. The first 3 were off older cars in the carburetion days, and the last 2 were on cars with FI. The ones with carburetors were crusted with carbon deposit, and the ones with FI were a lot cleaner. In fact, without pulling the heads, one could guess just by looking at the spark plugs. FI was that much better for clean combustion, I guess.

A sentimental and nostalgic guy like I am, I have no fondness of the old V8s of yesteryear. They leaked like a sieve, ran noisy, and did not last all that long, and needed all kinds of maintenance while they ran.

 

[Chuckanut]

Hungry electrons

Help me with this one. Since cold wires have less resistance than warm wires, how would warming the wires get you extra "oomph" from your car battery?

The battery being warmer would help, but not the wires.

Or is there something else going on here?

What is happening is that the electrons that run through the cable for only a short time, become 'hungry' electrons that are anxious to complete the electrical path and get more energy from the battery. Therefore, they move more quickly through the wire than the more satiated electrons. I thought everybody knew this.

 

[Chuckanut]

Good point on ethanol blends. Ethanol provides less energy than "pure" gas so mpg will be less all else being equal. In US EPA testing of flex-fuel capable vehicles, mpg ratings for E85 is ~25-30% less than on gas. This suggests ~5% less mpg using 15% ethanol vs "pure" gas.

IMHO, mixing ethanol made from corn into gasoline is one of the biggest [-]scams[/-] misunderstandings yet heaped on the American public. I think it will be right up there with the "eat high trans-fat margarine instead of butter because it's better for your heart" [-]nonsense[/-] misinformed advice that many of us followed for years.

 

[rbmrtn]

Love the thought of the old days when we used to floor it to "blow out the carbon" and lay down some rubber, as well.

That's what I recall folks doing. And giving the carb a good dose of carb cleaner to start. The real mechanics I think would remove the carb and soak it cleaner then reinstall.

 

[travelover]

That's what I recall folks doing. And giving the carb a good dose of carb cleaner to start. The real mechanics I think would remove the carb and soak it cleaner then reinstall.

The carbon accumulates in the combustion chambers, not in the carburetor.

 

[rbmrtn]

IMHO, mixing ethanol made from corn into gasoline is one of the biggest [-]scams[/-] misunderstandings yet heaped on the American public. I think it will be right up there with the "eat high trans-fat margarine instead of butter because it's better for your heart" [-]nonsense[/-] misinformed advice that many of us followed for years.

Several problems with corn ethanol. It's made from a primary food stock for humans and animal feeds making everything that uses corn more expensive. It's not very effecient, it takes as much or more energy to produce it as what you get out of it.

Brazil uses a waste grass ( sugar cane ) that is not part of the food chain, it can still be used as cattle feed after processing. and it gets a lot more energy out than you put in.

 

[travelover]

.............
Brazil uses a waste grass ( sugar cane ) that is not part of the food chain, it can still be used as cattle feed after processing. and it gets a lot more energy out than you put in.

True but not exactly green as they have been clearing rain forest to plant more cane for ethanol production.

 

[ERD50]

The critics of corn ethanol for fuel are correct (regarding the environment and cost). And now we have a corn shortage due to the drought in the Midwest. I've never seen such sickly corn, never remember farmers cutting corn grown for grain down to use the plant for feed because the cobs had not formed well enough to harvest (some corn was grown to chop for feed while green, but that was rare, and was the intended use). And it worse in central/southern IL.

There was talk of eliminating the fuel subsidy due to the drought, don't know if anything happened. Even Al Gore admits it was a mistake. Wonder what else he might be wrong about?

Al Gore: I Was Wrong About Ethanol : TreeHugger

Al Gore says his support for corn-based ethanol subsidies while serving as vice president was a mistake that had more to do with his desire to cultivate farm votes in the 2000 presidential election than with what was good for the environment.

Al Gore: I Was Wrong About Ethanol : TreeHugger

"It's hard once such a programme is put in place to deal with the lobbies that keep it going."

It ought to serve as a warning about anything else that gets subsidized and/or has greenies jumping on the bandwagon. It needs to be thought out, not just piled on because something about it 'sounds good'.

-ERD50

 

[FinanceDude]

The critics of corn ethanol for fuel are correct (regarding the environment and cost). And now we have a corn shortage due to the drought in the Midwest. I've never seen such sickly corn, never remember farmers cutting corn grown for grain down to use the plant for feed because the cobs had not formed well enough to harvest (some corn was grown to chop for feed while green, but that was rare, and was the intended use). And it worse in central/southern IL.

There was talk of eliminating the fuel subsidy due to the drought, don't know if anything happened. Even Al Gore admits it was a mistake. Wonder what else he might be wrong about?

Al Gore: I Was Wrong About Ethanol : TreeHugger


Al Gore: I Was Wrong About Ethanol : TreeHugger



It ought to serve as a warning about anything else that gets subsidized and/or has greenies jumping on the bandwagon. It needs to be thought out, not just piled on because something about it 'sounds good'.

-ERD50

That subsidy is somehwere between $6-8 billion a year, I realize that's not going to balance the budget, but the real question is: "If ethanol wasn't cheaper than gas because of federal subsidy, and was the same price as regular gas, who would buy it? The answer is almost nobody!

 

[rbmrtn]

True but not exactly green as they have been clearing rain forest to plant more cane for ethanol production.

I thought their major sugar cane production is away from the amazon region. But I was just stating their source of ethanol not whether it was green.

Sugarcane Ethanol and Amazon Rain Forests — Sugarcane Ethanol, the Sweeter Alternative

http://www.tropen.uni-bonn.de/new_website/englische_seiten/Home/Myths.pdf

 

[Chuckanut]

This thread is very interesting, very helpful and huge. Has anybody touched on insurance savings? What deductibles are people taking? At what point does one stop paying for collision and comprehensive insurance?

 

[Ronstar]

The battery went dead in my jeep a couple of years ago at the vacation condo. I only have 1 vehicle here so I called AAA and it cost me $60 for the AAA membership and $160 for the battery. I sold the jeep and moved DW's car to the condo. Now it's battery is dead. I'm not calling AAA - I'll swap the battery myself. The only tough part is getting to/from the auto parts store.

 

[rbmrtn]

The battery went dead in my jeep a couple of years ago at the vacation condo. I only have 1 vehicle here so I called AAA and it cost me $60 for the AAA membership and $160 for the battery. I sold the jeep and moved DW's car to the condo. Now it's battery is dead. I'm not calling AAA - I'll swap the battery myself. The only tough part is getting to/from the auto parts store.

That was ripoff but I guess they had you. I just replaced one, if you have an AdvanceAuto parts around they have some good discounts. New battery was ~$100, got a $40 discount code, ordered it online and picked up at the store.

 

[kumquat]

The battery went dead in my jeep a couple of years ago at the vacation condo. I only have 1 vehicle here so I called AAA and it cost me $60 for the AAA membership and $160 for the battery. I sold the jeep and moved DW's car to the condo. Now it's battery is dead. I'm not calling AAA - I'll swap the battery myself. The only tough part is getting to/from the auto parts store.

Another tip.

Your battery will/may lose charge when not used. Usually, this is a sign that the battery needs replacing but it may be ok. Get a cheap charger for the condo. Then, even if you need a new battery, you can probably get enough charge into the battery to start the car and drive to the local parts store.

 

[travelover]

Another tip.

Your battery will/may lose charge when not used. Usually, this is a sign that the battery needs replacing but it may be ok. Get a cheap charger for the condo. Then, even if you need a new battery, you can probably get enough charge into the battery to start the car and drive to the local parts store.

The battery failed suddenly in DW's car and neither AAA nor I could jump start it. New battery fixed it.

You can get a cheap solar charger to stick on a dash for cars that are rarely driven and in direct sunlight. Make sure that your cigarette lighter is powered when the engine is off.
1.5 Watt Solar Battery Charger

 

[kumquat]

The battery failed suddenly in DW's car and neither AAA nor I could jump start it. New battery fixed it.

Ya can't win'em all.

 

[Ronstar]

Thanks for the battery tips. Found a tire store a mile away and got a ride there, got a $100 battery and the store owner gave me a ride home. Installed the battery and drove off to buy some beer. All is well. I guess everyone here in Arizona knows that heat kills batteries. I didn't.

 

[Ronstar]

Another tip.

Your battery will/may lose charge when not used. Usually, this is a sign that the battery needs replacing but it may be ok. Get a cheap charger for the condo. Then, even if you need a new battery, you can probably get enough charge into the battery to start the car and drive to the local parts store.

I had a trickle charger on it since I was last here in sept, but I don't think I had a good bite on the terminals- I attached the charger to the terminal cable nuts sideways so I could close the hood. Then when it didn't start last night, I tried the charger again. No go. Then when I saw the battery was from April 2005, I knew I needed a new one

 

[Finance Dave]

OK, so let's get back to engine knock or detonation.

Back in the 70s, which means I am talking about cars that were made in the late 60s as well as the early 70s, my family and I had so many problems with engine knock and dieseling on different cars. Yes, remember the engine running-on problem after you shut off the ignition, on a hot day?

Nowadays, with fuel injection instead of carburetors, once one shuts off the ignition, there is no fuel to feed the engine. So dieseling can never happen with FI.

I remember back then that, short of removing the heads and cleaning up the carbon deposits, one could only try different fuel additives to remove that carbon. There was only one brand, a more expensive one, that would work. I cannot remember that now.

What was/is your experience?

I agree with all you say. The dieseling was a major problem back in those days. One way to fix it is to retart timing slightly, although that reduces power and fuel economy.

 

[Finance Dave]

Rev up the engine (grabbing the throttle arm with your hand) while spritzing water into the carb throat with the other hand. Theory was that the water basically 'steam-cleaned' the carbon deposits off. I guess you would not know for sure w/o removing the head to see. But it seemed to work.

The warning was not to get too much water in at once - too much water could cause a flood in a piston, and the non-compressible liquid could damage the engine. But I'd assume the engine would just quit before that could happen.

I recall we had a car that was having a moderate knock problem, it was noticeable under medium/hard acceleration. We drove to Milwaukee one day (~ 80 miles), and on the way back was a steady rain and mist from the highway. About 2/3 of the way home, the knocking stopped. I attributed it to the constant moisture being sucked in and blowing out the carbon, but who knows? Could have just been the sustained highway speeds, with or w/o the added moisture.

-ERD50

IMO I would not squirt or spritz any water in an engine. Even if you don't hydrolock the engine, you run the risk that a piston ring rides on the cylinder wall with water as a "lubricant"...and that concerns me.

yes, some engines are designed for water injection...but that's a whole other discussion.