Seven year auto loans

Agree with pb4uski. Not all debt is bad. More importantly, there is no connection between depreciation and debt. It does not make any difference if you pay cash, that car still depreciates 20% (from your example) as soon as you drive it off the lot. If you buy a $50K car with cash and you have to sell it the next day, you’re still out $10K. I guess if you borrowed the money you’d be out a bit more because there was probably loan fees that you had to pay up front. However, if depreciation is your concern, buy a used car. If making the best financial decision is your concern, there are times when debt can work very well in your favor.

Yes, this.

If I *want* to drop 50k on a brand new car, you can argue that’s a dumb financial decision, but it has nothing to do with the debt piece. And we’re lucky to be in a place we can fund our wants, even if they’re not the best use of money. I’m happy to take advantage of cheap money to do so. Agree that this is probably not the reasoning many people have when taking out loans for a product.
 
I don't see a problem, here. Sooner or later some government candidate will propose a plan to pay off all auto loans.
 
Usually a flat fee, normally cheaper through your local credit union/bank than the dealer.

E.g. my credit union charges $325 for gap coverage (up to $50,000):

https://www.ncsecu.org/AutoLoans/GAPCoverage.html

That's quite a bit more than what I paid about 10 years ago ($12 a year compared to over $100 for the dealer provided policy). But, then I was buying a car around $23,000. I can't imagine the gap being much more than $5000 or so.

This site might be helpful. I guess gap insurance has gone up to match the increased costs of buying and insuring cars. Lucky us. :(

https://www.howmuchisit.org/gap-insurance-cost/
 
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Whenever one purchases a depreciating asset, it cannot be looked at as any kind of investment but as an asset net value judgment. The money is going away as you use up the asset. The way I have always looked at it is “what is the cost per month and is there value in that cost?” The value part is where we all have different judgments. In BLow the Dough threads, excess money is spent on expensive food, drink, and travel. Judgment calls are being made. For financially saavy people leveraging debt makes you money or simply reduces net costs. Whether you pay for a service, or expensive food, it is a choice you make for the use of your money, ie: the reason You worked.

Being able to afford that cost is a different discussion. You can pay cash for a well negotiated $70k car. You want the car, and you have made the judgement that it is worth its cost to you, which is peanuts to your bottom line. Then the dealer offers you a 7 year loan for $50k at 0.9%. You would be a fool not to take it. Even if you parked the money at 2% you are getting a discount over paying cash. Preaching to the choir, I’m sure.

The terrible part is of course as everyone has said, is that the same loans are being made to people that can’t really afford the item, just like the housing bust if 2008. I applaud 7 year loans for those that can make money on them, though like others here, I cannot see myself doing that. Just too much ingrained aversion, plus I have never seen the favorable rates for that long a period on my purchases.

+100

This is the reason I lease vehicles. I know I'm spending a bit more than I would by buying the vehicle, I figure $500-$600 over three years, but I'm not out $35,000. Instead, that $35,000 is working for me, instead of depreciating. I'm simply buying the depreciation by leasing.

I'm making a decision that the extra money I'm spending on the lease is getting me a bumper to bumper warranty for those 36 months which gives me peace of mind, I'm getting the latest safety features (more peace of mind) and I'm getting the latest in electronics and creature comforts. To me that is worthwhile.

My brain just can't process having a seven year auto loan. If it were 0% or 0.9% and you knew you were going to keep the car for at least 5 years I can see where it would be attractive to some people.

While cleaning out an old dresser full of documents, I recently found a new car purchase agreement from 1985. I took out a 60 month new car loan on a $15,000 vehicle at 8.8%. (Yeah, I was young and dumb. And interest rates were quite high back then.) But my monthly payment was only $173 and I kept the car for 10 years.
 
Interesting. I’ve never looked into a car lease. Your logic is much the same as for having a 30 year mortgage, i.e. keeping your principal working hard in the stock and bond market rather than sinking it into a physical asset. I guess I’d want to understand and factor in all fees for the car, plus transaction costs to get into the next vehicle, as well as compare those factors with a three year car loan.
 
Interesting. I’ve never looked into a car lease. Your logic is much the same as for having a 30 year mortgage, i.e. keeping your principal working hard in the stock and bond market rather than sinking it into a physical asset. I guess I’d want to understand and factor in all fees for the car, plus transaction costs to get into the next vehicle, as well as compare those factors with a three year car loan.

Be sure to pay close attention to sales taxes on leases. There are a few "gotcha" states:

There are a few states that don't charge sales tax on monthly payments, including Ohio, Texas, North Dakota, and New Jersey. They have higher charges and require sales tax to be fully paid up-front, based on the value of the vehicle purchase price and the sum of all lease payments.

https://www.carlease.com/posts/2018/how-a-states-tax-laws-can-impact-the-cost-of-your-car-lease
 
Cannot imagine a seven year car loan. Or a car loan for that matter. Our 2006 and 2009 are running just fine. Not even thinking about buying a replacement for either.

Lots of expensive pickup trucks and SUV’s where we live. Economy is down. Repo men are very busy.
 
So if the choice is either taking out a loan for a car and make monthly payments with interest or drive the present car that is paid for and make the monthly payments to yourself that can earn interest for you until you have enough to buy a car with cash then which is preferable. I have done the later for the past 25 yrs. I started with used inexpensive cars while I saved for the next car. Kept this up for quite a number of years until I can now buy pretty much anything I want with cash (maybe would not spring for a Ferrari though).


Cheers!
 
Interesting. I’ve never looked into a car lease. Your logic is much the same as for having a 30 year mortgage, i.e. keeping your principal working hard in the stock and bond market rather than sinking it into a physical asset. I guess I’d want to understand and factor in all fees for the car, plus transaction costs to get into the next vehicle, as well as compare those factors with a three year car loan.

What bothers me about leasing (never done it) is that typically there are mileage limitations and you can end up paying a big surcharge when you turn it in if you go over. There's also some built-in assumption of what the car will be worth when you turn it in. If there's too much wear and tear you may have to pay for that, too. Gap insurance may cover; I'm not sure.

Cannot imagine a seven year car loan. Or a car loan for that matter. Our 2006 and 2009 are running just fine. Not even thinking about buying a replacement for either.

Lots of expensive pickup trucks and SUV’s where we live. Economy is down. Repo men are very busy.

I figure I can afford fancy cars or an extravagant travel budget. I took my first trip to Europe in 1977 when I was 24 and when my coworkers said, "must be nice", I reminded them that I lived in an apartment and my car was a POS 1973 Hornet I'd bought used. (I'm now driving a 2012 Sentra and live in a house I love, so I've upgraded a bit.)

It's sad to see people get over-extended on cars and trucks and lose them to repossession, but I almost have to laugh when, every time the price of gas spikes, there are sob stories in the media about people who say they can't afford gas for their Mileage Hog trucks and SUVs. Like, they never expected the price of gas to increase?
 
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What bothers me about leasing (never done it) is that typically there are mileage limitations and you can end up paying a big surcharge when you turn it in if you go over. There's also some built-in assumption of what the car will be worth when you turn it in. If there's too much wear and tear you may have to pay for that, too. Gap insurance may cover; I'm not sure. ...

While I have yet to lease, I have look into it a few times. IIRC the per mile charge is often about the same as the regular lease rate... IOW if you take the lease payments divided by the miles covered it is about the same as the rate per mile if you go over.

I know people who hae leased and turned in but have never had wear and tear adustments... I suspect that is for vehicles that have numerous dings and dents or have otherwise been abused.

My understanding is that gap insurance covers you if you have an incident and what you receive from your car insurer is less than your remaining payments.

The lessor is taking the risk that the car is worth less than the value used in doing the lease payments... the lessor essentially has a option on the vehicle... if the vehicle ends up being worth a lot more then they can exercies that option... if it is close or a lot less then they can put it onto the lessor.
 
(I'm now driving a 2012 Sentra and live in a house I love, so I've upgraded a bit.)

It's sad to see people get over-extended on cars and trucks and lose them to repossession, but I almost have to laugh when, every time the price of gas spikes, there are sob stories in the media about people who say they can't afford gas for their Mileage Hog trucks and SUVs. Like, they never expected the price of gas to increase?

Your 2012 Sentra brings back memories of my 2012 Camry that was totaled. I was going to drive in 250,000 miles - the distance to the moon. After that I might have bought something "Made on the Moon" to get back to Earth. Or, perhaps a used Rover from one of the Apollo missions?:)

The nice thing about the 2012 Camry was that it came with a very nice yearly vacation trip. :D Now that's an option worth getting.
 
My understanding is that gap insurance covers you if you have an incident and what you receive from your car insurer is less than your remaining payments.

You're right- I think the appropriate coverage is residual value insurance. I did a search on it and although there is such a thing, I'm not sure how easy it is to find or what it costs.
 
You're right- I think the appropriate coverage is residual value insurance. I did a search on it and although there is such a thing, I'm not sure how easy it is to find or what it costs.

But the lessee would not need residual value insurance because the lessee isn't responsible for the residual value.... the lessor might want it though.
 
Also, there's no gas tax on the moon... yet

Your 2012 Sentra brings back memories of my 2012 Camry that was totaled. I was going to drive in 250,000 miles - the distance to the moon. After that I might have bought something "Made on the Moon" to get back to Earth. Or, perhaps a used Rover from one of the Apollo missions?:)

The return trip should have been easy. It's all downhill!
 
I am not really surprised to see this... they are moving the focus of car buying off of the actual cost of the car and more to the monthly payment. The assumption being made is that if you can afford the monthly payment, you can afford the car.

If dealers start making more on the loans than there cars, I will not be surprised to see them move to pitches such as "come borrow money from us, we'll throw in a car for free." :) I have already heard CarMax referred to as a finance company that happens to sell cars.



Sales personnel are trained to speak in terms of monthly payment, not total cost. They can almost always bring the monthly cost down to something someone can live with, but don’t want to advise how they do so. It’s never really to the buyer’s advantage. Don’t let them do the paperwork for your bank loan, either. They charge a ‘finance fee’ for doing so, and can also up the interest a bit from what the bank’s actually offering. All profit for them at your expense.

Last time I bought a car, I went to each dealer and told them to give me their best price - I wouldn’t dicker, I was asking numerous dealerships and different models, and I’d choose the best offer. Got a TLX for the same price as the Accord, and they offered a better trade-in on the old car - though it was the previous model year. Still, worked out nicely.

As to the article, I think car prices have just out-distance pay increases. Our son leased his last car, in college, then bought it after the lease was up because he knew it was in great condition. We’re looking at leasing next time, ourselves.
 
As a kid, I remember Dear Old Dad seeing a 48-month loan in the paper and erupting in disbelief. I got my first car, used, when I graduated from college with ten bucks in my pocket and DOD was good enough to co-sign the loan so I could get the unbelievably low interest rate of 17%. He insisted I not go longer than 36 months, and although I grumbled through those three years of payments I was eternally grateful to him for his advice in the long run.

Fast forward 15 years and DW and I paid cash for our first car together and discovered the joy of never having a car payment again. Save your money, then buy the car. Not easy starting out, of course, but once you pay off the first loan you simply LBYM, as we all know.

When I bought my new truck two years ago just before ER a coworker asked if I got a good interest rate. I've learned generally not to mention paying cash for such a large purchase, but my puzzled look gave me away instantly. He glared at me and walked off, not needing a verbal response. LOL

But seven years? [shakes head]



Yea - but taking cash from an investment which will return - on average - about 8% a year, to buy a car one could finance today at 4% (thereabouts) doesn’t make sense to me. Even on a 5 year car loan, you’re coming out ahead.
 
Yea - but taking cash from an investment which will return - on average - about 8% a year, to buy a car one could finance today at 4% (thereabouts) doesn’t make sense to me. Even on a 5 year car loan, you’re coming out ahead.
The 8% investment return is not guaranteed (if it is, please let us know where to send our money), but the 4% financing cost surely is. You have to risk adjust alternative uses for your money.
 
Cannot imagine a seven year car loan. Or a car loan for that matter.

While I have to say I'd also choke on a seven year loan for a car, I can't agree that all car loans are bad. Lots of people have a job and need a reliable car (given that public transportation is not an option). One can debate the relative values of new vs. used vs. warranty/reliability issues, but when someone will get fired for being unreliable because their transportation arrangements are unreliable they need a reliable car. And most often a car loan is the only way to get it.

Lessee - shall I take the loan and stay employed, or refuse it and get fired the next time the old clunker breaks down:confused:?

I'll take the loan.
 
After all this complication, methinks I’ll just continue paying cash for 2-3 year old Honda or Toyota products, buying the extended warranty, then keeping them for 15-20 years.
 
They should just buy a car that they can afford. People want expensive SUV’s, trucks, etc. My first new car was when I was in my 30’s. It was small with no extras at all. Now we buy 3-4 year old cars pre-certified by the dealer with low miles and a warranty. We drive them until repairs become too costly.

+1

This is my plan as well, and my first new car was also in my 30's - an almost bare Honda Civic. I can't fathom taking out a seven-year loan on a car - very strong possibility the car will quit on you with two to three more years to pay. Not an enviable situation.
 
After all this complication, methinks I’ll just continue paying cash for 2-3 year old Honda or Toyota products, buying the extended warranty, then keeping them for 15-20 years.

What complication? For my last auto loan I set up the autopay with my bank's bill pay for 60 payments on the xth of each month.... done.... easy peasy.
 
What complication? For my last auto loan I set up the autopay with my bank's bill pay for 60 payments on the xth of each month.... done.... easy peasy.


My 4 year 0% loan is on autopay. <shrug> It also is scheduled to deduct the payment around when we used to pay our mortgage payment, so it's really NBD. :D
 
After all this complication, methinks I’ll just continue paying cash for 2-3 year old Honda or Toyota products, buying the extended warranty, then keeping them for 15-20 years.

Keep a car for 20 years in this day and age of rapidly changing technology? I couldn't imagine driving a car without remote start, bluetooth, a USB port for my music, voice commands, rear view camera, etc.

What are you going to do when gas engine cars are becoming obsolete, which could happen in 10-15 years? Self-driving cars will be here about the same time.
 
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