Smart Switch Solutions

[misanman]

We have a number of remote control "smart" switches that are bluetooth based and marketed by GE. The control software is Avi-on installed on smart phones. In addition to using some of these year around, we use six of them for synchronous control of Christmas lights.

Now one of the controllers has failed and they don't appear to be available to purchase any longer.

I'm frankly confused by the options available and afraid of investing in a new system that is destined to become obsolete.

What is the current "standard" for these kind of devices? If I replace the current system I'd like to do it in a way that isn't obsolete tomorrow.

Thx

I should add that we also have a few smart devices that are controlled by Google. I'm thinking that these are a completely different architecture.

 

[mpeirce]

What is the current "standard" for these kind of devices? If I replace the current system I'd like to do it in a way that isn't obsolete tomorrow.

You actually might want to wait until next year. The industry is trying to coalesce around a common standard called Matter. It’s been taking a while, but looks like there will actually be products coming out next year.

Apple, Google, Amazon, and Samsung are behind it. And the smaller device players are as well.

I didn’t wait and went with Apple HomeKit, which I’m very happy with, but waiting is an option.

If you are buying equipment now it’s probably best to stick to devices that use WiFi (rather than proprietary protocols, Zigby, or even Bluetooth). If a device uses Thread protocol it’ll very probably support the future since Matter will support Thread.

 

[OldShooter]

Glad to hear about Matter. International standards are the inevitable endpoint for things like this, impeded by vendors with proprietary standards earnestly throwing sand into the gears of progress. I have seen this first-hand as a participant in a couple of standards committees.

One of my fond memories is the rep from Exxon looking Honeywell and Foxboro in the eyes and saying "There will be a standard here." Absent strong customers, which is the case with smart home standards, the process takes longer.

That said, a couple of months ago I had the same question as the OP and ended up buying a Hubitat box and a Zooz Z-wave sensor just to play around. Unopened boxes so far. The attraction of the Hubitat was their security philosophy, keeping things local. Unlike Ring, for example, which hoovers up all your data and stores it for any hacker to peruse.

I will keep an eye on Matter. Thanks again.

 

[CaptTom]

I've been dabbling with home automation (mostly home monitoring) for a few years now.

I'm a huge fan of local control. Admittedly, if you want the simplest solution, you should buy into one vendor's ecosystem and let them worry about the details. But you run the risk of the vendor changing or abandoning whatever you bought into, making your hardware obsolete. There are also obvious privacy and security risks. Free services can be switched to pay services. And of course none of it works if the internet is down or the vendor goes out of business.

I've learned to avoid WiFi devices wherever possible. While generally cheaper, most require you to set up an account with the vendor's cloud, and won't run without it. Exceptions are home-grown systems you program or flash to use protocols like ESPHome or Tasmota.

Zigbee and Z-Wave devices are generally fairly compatible, (mostly) adhering to the standards for that protocol. These devices create a local mesh network which is separate from your WiFi network, making them more secure and private.

As for the newer standards, time will tell. It's a great idea, but it's always difficult to create a one-size-fits-all solution. There are so many different requirements for "smart home" systems. I like to monitor my heating system and sump pumps, plus turn off and on a few lights. Some people include audio, video, presence detection, voice commands and all kinds of complex automations. I've even seen bed occupancy sensors and toothbrush use sensors discussed. Will there be one protocol to rule them all? We'll see.

 

[CoolRich59]

I have six Kasa smart plugs that I use for lights and other devices.

They are easy to set up and control through the Kasa app on my phone and tablet. I would hate to see them get obsoleted, but agree that smart devices need to get on a uniform standard.

 

[RetiredHappy]

We have smart door locks (Z-Wave standard), MyQ for garage door WIFI controls, Ring system for doorbells and cams, and FEIT WIFI for lights. We haven't looked at smart switches yet as we have not had a need for them.

 

[levindb]

I have purchased a number of smart plugs from amazon...4 outlets for about $30. There are a number of different names...but they are all pretty similar in looks and function. They are Wi-Fi controlled and I have an app on my phone that I can set up a schedule, or turn them on and off manually. The schedule knows the local time, so I do not have to do anything for daylight savings time changes.

I can name each outlet and they plug into any normal wall outlet...with your device then plugging into this smart thing.

Pretty easy and pretty cheap for the function it performs.

 

[Animorph]

+1 on Matter.

A Wi-Fi switch that works with Google or an app would be a pretty cheap solution while you're waiting. An after Christmas sale might have some cheap ones. I have a few on the Smart Life app that are just fine and pretty cheap, with multiple alternatives.

 

[Aerides]

Kasa works with google, and I think Feit switches do also? (their lightbulbs do).

 

[gauss]

Have you looked on ebay for a replacement for your old system? It seems that you can get darn near anything on ebay. (I had to replace a broken X10 switch just this week).

 

[misanman]

Thank you all for the good suggestions. I think I'm going to wait for more standardization in this space (Matter, probably) before I purchase more devices. I was able to dig an old timer-based switch from storage to use for the remainder of the holiday season and will monitor for progress in this technology in 2022.

 

[The Cosmic Avenger]

You actually might want to wait until next year. The industry is trying to coalesce around a common standard called Matter. It’s been taking a while, but looks like there will actually be products coming out next year.

Apple, Google, Amazon, and Samsung are behind it. And the smaller device players are as well.

I didn’t wait and went with Apple HomeKit, which I’m very happy with, but waiting is an option.

If you are buying equipment now it’s probably best to stick to devices that use WiFi (rather than proprietary protocols, Zigby, or even Bluetooth). If a device uses Thread protocol it’ll very probably support the future since Matter will support Thread.

Thanks for mentioning this. We've got wifi-enabled smart bulbs, and I'm fine with those because they're all compatible with Google Home and Amazon Echo, so they're not difficult to control, but I was looking at replacing our Kwikset smart lock lately. It stopped responding at one point and I had to do a factory reset -- lucky for me I keep an encrypted file of the codes I issued to people! I'll wait and see if there's a shakeout.

 

[deserat]

I am watching this thread with interest. I have an old Radio Shack 'remote control' system that was a wedding gift...it has a control console and relies on contact closure with outlet plug-ins....it's rudimentary. However, I like the idea of local control. Too many services based applications are DOA without the 'network connection-ack/back/ to the vendor server in a server farm somewhere.' The absolute reliance on the network and many of the cascading services (DNS servers anyone?), does not give me warm fuzzies.

 

[mpeirce]

Too many services based applications are DOA without the 'network connection-ack/back/ to the vendor server in a server farm somewhere.' The absolute reliance on the network and many of the cascading services (DNS servers anyone?), does not give me warm fuzzies.

That’s one of the things I like about Apple’s HomeKit. It still works well even when there is an internet outage.

Certain obvious features don’t work, like controlling items in your home from afar, but all local device control and automations work fine.

Then there are the various built in privacy features, like HomeKit's secure video that is encrypted locally so Apple can’t ever view it (or anyone is, say China, either).

 

[OldShooter]

I am watching this thread with interest. I have an old Radio Shack 'remote control' system that was a wedding gift...it has a control console and relies on contact closure with outlet plug-ins....it's rudimentary. However, I like the idea of local control. Too many services based applications are DOA without the 'network connection-ack/back/ to the vendor server in a server farm somewhere.' The absolute reliance on the network and many of the cascading services (DNS servers anyone?), does not give me warm fuzzies.

That was almost certainly an "x-10" system, resold widely by RS. In the early 90s I spent a couple of thousand $ building an HA system based on X-10. Unfortunately it is a power line carrier system very vulnerable to noise. Basically it slips its transmissions into the AC during an interval around the zero-crossing. I even had voice synthesis that would warn if the garage door had been open too long and give a full house status report including temperature. Interested faded, though, and when I started getting noise from unknown sources outside the house I took most of it down. IIRC it was about 6,000 lines of code.

(I have a large box of X-10 hardware that I will give to anyone willing to pay the postage. PM me. )

Back to the point, though, as you say relying extensively on outside servers is A Bad Idea. Unless you are selling subscriber information, that is or you plan to force users to pay a subscription fee in order for their automation to function. It also leads to unacceptable latency like one poster mentioned re doorbell response. Some things cannot be done locally (like geofencing and remote house control) but a conservative philosophy should minimize those in the general system philosophy and in specific installation designs.

 

[Yipper]

I’ve been using Insteon devices for a long time and they’re still available. It’s another power line protocol but more reliable than X-10.

I only have a few light switches (for exterior porch and flood lights) and a dozen or so plug-in modules for table lamps, holiday decorations and the like.

All works well, runs completely at home with no recurring costs. Smarthome.com is a good source.

 

[travelover]

I’ve been using Insteon devices for a long time and they’re still available. It’s another power line protocol but more reliable than X-10.

I only have a few light switches (for exterior porch and flood lights) and a dozen or so plug-in modules for table lamps, holiday decorations and the like.

All works well, runs completely at home with no recurring costs. Smarthome.com is a good source.

I have a garage with 3 entrance doors. Would I be able to put one base and two remotes in using the Insteon system? I have electrical boxes at all the doors but only one is wired for the overhead lights.

 

[Yipper]

I have a garage with 3 entrance doors. Would I be able to put one base and two remotes in using the Insteon system? I have electrical boxes at all the doors but only one is wired for the overhead lights.

I don't have any garage door controllers so no first hand experience but this is available:

https://www.insteon.com/garage-door-control-kit

 

[travelover]

I don't have any garage door controllers so no first hand experience but this is available:

https://www.insteon.com/garage-door-control-kit

Sorry, I wasn't clear. These are just ordinary entry doors for a person to walk through. Ideally you'd flip on the garage light from any door as you entered the garage. Currently only one door has a hard wired switch to do that.

 

[OldShooter]

Typically a door sensor is a round magnet bored into the door and a magnetic reed switch bored into the frame. This is called a "dry contact" and any system will have devices to connect. A battery-operated dry contact sensor would probably transmit each time the switch opened or closed. A controller could then make decisions on when to turn on a light or lights. It could also tell you if a door was standing open and should not be.

I avoid battery-operated devices because of the unending need for replacing batteries. Hard wired systems are better but usuallyhard to hook up in existing construction.

Edit: You might also want to research motion-activated lights or occupancy sensors to control lights. In my garage a motion detector light sensor can "see" both of the entry doors and will turn on its lights.

 

[Yipper]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. These are just ordinary entry doors for a person to walk through. Ideally you'd flip on the garage light from any door as you entered the garage. Currently only one door has a hard wired switch to do that.

Ah... got it. So you could definitely do that. Couple of ways: Insteon devices can respond to messages from OTHER devices as well. So you could replace all light switches in the garage and program the one that's wired to switch on if any of the others were toggled. OR - you could put contacts on the door to trigger when it was opened and signal the wired switch to toggle on.

Problem these days with Insteon is that the devices are almost impossible to find. Not sure if this is a supply chain issue or if they're business is fading after being around for a long time.

 

[Yipper]

Edit: You might also want to research motion-activated lights or occupancy sensors to control lights. In my garage a motion detector light sensor can "see" both of the entry doors and will turn on its lights.

Agree - this would be the easiest solution.