Solar, Wind Renewable Energy

[mpeirce]

I don't think EV charging stations set different rates depending on time of day or the season yet

I’m trying to think of another product were people have to pay more based on the time of day and can’t really come up with one.

I wonder how this will work out for people to deal with it.

If your electricity supply is predominantly solar, then it should be cheaper to use electricity based on night/day cycles and to a lesser extent if it’s cloudy vs sunny.

Wind is trickier, wind power is more plentiful when the wind is blowing, but not hard (it shuts down when it’s too windy). So zero availability when the window calm, and also zero when it’s above maybe 25(?) mph and on a sliding scale in between.

I expect this is too many variables for most people to think about.

 

[Sunset]

I’m trying to think of another product were people have to pay more based on the time of day and can’t really come up with one.

..

Restaurants, very common for lunch or early bird supper to be cheaper than 6pm or later supper.

 

[travelover]

Restaurants, very common for lunch or early bird supper to be cheaper than 6pm or later supper.

Also Uber has a sliding scale based on demand.

 

[Gumby]

Road tolls in areas with congestion pricing. Airline tickets.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

The local paper had an interesting story about a farmer who cut a deal to have a "solar farm" (massive solar panel array) built on his acreage in southern Wisconsin. This guy boasts of shaking Nixon's hand. https://www.jsonline.com/story/money/business/2022/04/19/beaver-dam-farmer-sees-economic-potential-leasing-land-solar/9510694002/

Wisconsin is not a particularly sunny state. In fact, if you look at solar energy maps, it's near the bottom of the scale. Nevertheless, a regional utility has plans for his property.

I have a few acres myself -- if the payback is sufficient, I might consider it. Cash-crop rental is not that lucrative.

 

[misanman]

The problem with wind and solar power is that sometimes you have so much of it, you don't know what to do with it. Then, there are days you don't have enough.

I think it's a bit worse than that - on the grid, the power consumed must match the power generated. So it is critical to be able to find someone who can use the excess when you have it.

 

[HenryD]

I think it's a bit worse than that - on the grid, the power consumed must match the power generated. So it is critical to be able to find someone who can use the excess when you have it.

That's why we'll need more and more grid-scale storage, and innovations like Packetized Energy - https://spectrum.ieee.org/packetized-power-grid

 

[ocean view]

I don't think EV charging stations set different rates depending on time of day or the season yet

8-10 years ago I had to research EV charging station pricing for work and learned that only a utility company is allowed to resell electricity. As a result, the EV charge network operators (like Chargepoint) have to base fees on time rather than actual electricity consumption. I don’t know if that rule has changed, but I suspect it has not.

 

[street]

8-10 years ago I had to research EV charging station pricing for work and learned that only a utility company is allowed to resell electricity. As a result, the EV charge network operators (like Chargepoint) have to base fees on time rather than actual electricity consumption. I don’t know if that rule has changed, but I suspect it has not.

I believe that is still true as of today. There are many good reason why that is a law.
I won't go into detail about that.

 

[Masquernom]

Two companies have attempted to install large solar panel facilities near the town I grew up near in Kentucky. Apparently, many of the local farmers were happy to sign up to allow the panels to be installed on their farms. However, the community members banded together to force the local jurisdiction to not rezone the farm land to multi-use so the projects could proceed. Currently, I think one project is pretty much cancelled now. The other has another zoning vote upcoming. It's a typical NIMBY situation. People claim they don't want their views spoiled while driving past the installations.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

Two companies have attempted to install large solar panel facilities near the town I grew up near in Kentucky. Apparently, many of the local farmers were happy to sign up to allow the panels to be installed on their farms. However, the community members banded together to force the local jurisdiction to not rezone the farm land to multi-use so the projects could proceed. Currently, I think one project is pretty much cancelled now. The other has another zoning vote upcoming. It's a typical NIMBY situation. People claim they don't want their views spoiled while driving past the installations.

We got windmill farms first. Personally, I think panels are less intrusive. They're definnitely less intrusive than 3,000-head CAFO dairy farms or egg farms with a million chickens. That's farming these days.

 

[street]

We got windmill farms first. Personally, I think panels are less intrusive. They're definnitely less intrusive than 3,000-head CAFO dairy farms or egg farms with a million chickens. That's farming these days.

I would agree there are many things on the landscape that change the landscape. Oil industry is a huge eye sore on the horizon and has more negative impact on the landscape and the environment.

When oil wants to drill, they drill. No voting no discussion. There is some guidelines and criteria they have to follow but they can put one in you view or in the most inconvenient place and there is nothing you can do.

 

[Turbo29]

I’m trying to think of another product were people have to pay more based on the time of day and can’t really come up with one.

I wonder how this will work out for people to deal with it.

Long distance telephone calls used to be that way (they still may be but I haven't used landline long distance in years). As far as dealing with it, if I wanted to have a long conversation with a friend in another state, I waited to 11:01pm to call.

 

[Mr._Graybeard]

I would agree there are many things on the landscape that change the landscape. Oil industry is a huge eye sore on the horizon and has more negative impact on the landscape and the environment.

When oil wants to drill, they drill. No voting no discussion. There is some guidelines and criteria they have to follow but they can put one in you view or in the most inconvenient place and there is nothing you can do.

Funny you should mention that. The local utility is installing a 15-story natural gas storage tank about a mile from my home. I'm sure it'll be a blot on the landscape, not to mention the 18 months of construction noise and traffic coming up. We fought it, but the utility tends to get its way. Another funny thing -- we have no natural gas service here and are unlikely to get it.

 

[street]

Funny you should mention that. The local utility is installing a 15-story natural gas storage tank about a mile from my home. I'm sure it'll be a blot on the landscape, not to mention the 18 months of construction noise and traffic coming up. We fought it, but the utility tends to get its way. Another funny thing -- we have no natural gas service here and are unlikely to get it.

I dislike being negative but the power these big oil and utilities have is a big deal.
The laws are written in their favor for recovering natural resources. When you own land, you really don't own it everyone tells you what you can do and what they will and can do of what you thought was in your control. Lol

 

[Midpack]

I dislike being negative but the power these big oil and utilities have is a big deal.
The laws are written in their favor for recovering natural resources. When you own land, you really don't own it everyone tells you what you can do and what they will and can do of what you thought was in your control. Lol

What laws aren’t written in favor of special interests these days? It’s not just big oil or utilities. And before you blame politicians, there’s no way they can fund a campaign these days without special interests money. Until we take campaign finance back, special interests quid pro quo run DC both parties, literally.

 

[travelover]

What laws aren’t written in favor of special interests these days? It’s not just big oil or utilities. And before you blame politicians, there’s no way they can fund a campaign these days without special interests money. Until we take campaign finance back, special interests quid pro quo run DC both parties, literally.

Amen to that.

 

[Koolau]

What laws aren’t written in favor of special interests these days? It’s not just big oil or utilities. And before you blame politicians, there’s no way they can fund a campaign these days without special interests money. Until we take campaign finance back, special interests quid pro quo run DC both parties, literally.

I don't disagree with anything negative folks have said about big companies, utilities, O&G, etc., etc. BUT, the power that banded folks have can be just as big an issue to these "giants." I mentioned once our Walmart taking years (and I mean years) to become a reality. One group would sue. The "issues" would be resolved, then another group would sue, etc., etc. THEN they found bones during construction. I guess I understand concerns about such things, but on an Island with 1400 years or so of history, bones are everywhere. Hawaiians didn't have huge cemeteries like we do now (and I wish we didn't take up the land for them - heh, heh, my personal bias.)

My only point is not to pick a side but to point out that we all want energy, infrastructure, commerce, etc. It's GONNA be in SOMEONE's back yard. No rant intended and returning you now...

 

[street]

I don't disagree with anything negative folks have said about big companies, utilities, O&G, etc., etc. BUT, the power that banded folks have can be just as big an issue to these "giants." I mentioned once our Walmart taking years (and I mean years) to become a reality. One group would sue. The "issues" would be resolved, then another group would sue, etc., etc. THEN they found bones during construction. I guess I understand concerns about such things, but on an Island with 1400 years or so of history, bones are everywhere. Hawaiians didn't have huge cemeteries like we do now (and I wish we didn't take up the land for them - heh, heh, my personal bias.)

My only point is not to pick a side but to point out that we all want energy, infrastructure, commerce, etc. It's GONNA be in SOMEONE's back yard. No rant intended and returning you now...

Exactly Right Koolau!
I have witnessed many times with big oil from my working years and in private dealings with them there is no compromise and they wanted it yesterday and they come first attitude.

 

[Rianne]

CBS Sunday Morning had a segment about cities and municipalities suing big oil to help pay for climate change damage. Rather than hit taxpayers with the bill, maybe big oil/gas can contribute. Not saying they are total to blame. Our country, and the world, are built on gas, oil, and coal. But I do think they should contribute to mitigation to help solve the problem.

 

[Koolau]

CBS Sunday Morning had a segment about cities and municipalities suing big oil to help pay for climate change damage. Rather than hit taxpayers with the bill, maybe big oil/gas can contribute. Not saying they are total to blame. Our country, and the world, are built on gas, oil, and coal. But I do think they should contribute to mitigation to help solve the problem.

I guess I don't see the nexus with Big Tobacco and Big "Fossil Fuels" as pointed to in the video. A case could be made that humans would be better off had we never discovered the "pleasures" of tobacco. But it would be difficult to suggest we could have the kind of personal wealth we have today without fossil fuels. Big O&G flares off excess methane so it would make more sense to sue "big Farm" for any methane pollution. CO2 is produced anytime we burn Big O&G products, but it's more on us for using it than them for producing what we demand. What do those suing think big O&G could have done. Produce less? Put warning labels on their products? Let themselves be regulated by EPA (that would be a nightmare for everyone.)?

The fact that Big O&G didn't want to be regulated for CO2 emissions is simply self preservation. There is STILL no proven method to reduce CO2 other than conservation - and that's done by us, not by the O&G folks.

Not looking for a food fight. I think the old saying "We have met the enemy and he is us" is more appropriate here than picking on Big O&G, etc. But, I do understand it. You always go after the deep pockets. YMMV

 

[travelover]

I guess I don't see the nexus with Big Tobacco and Big "Fossil Fuels" as pointed to in the video. .......

I think the nexus is that big tobacco knew cigarettes cause cancer and spent a lot of money on advertising and lobbyists to deny it. Similarly the fossil fuel industry knew from their own researchers that they were causing climate change and also spent a lot of money on advertising and lobbyists to deny it and delay any action to oppose climate change. It is one thing to not want to be regulated and another to continue a practice that you know to be harmful, through deceit. At the crux of it is the deceit and the knowingly doing harm to make a buck, once the harm was identified.

 

[street]

CBS Sunday Morning had a segment about cities and municipalities suing big oil to help pay for climate change damage. Rather than hit taxpayers with the bill, maybe big oil/gas can contribute. Not saying they are total to blame. Our country, and the world, are built on gas, oil, and coal. But I do think they should contribute to mitigation to help solve the problem.

I agree they need to help but just like the other problems that they bring along with their industry, they don't help with those either. Their industry brings in huge problems for communities and States when they move in and take over. States bend over backwards for them. They leave and the mess is there for Gov and States to deal with. Like I have said big oil gets away with a lot and at worst a slap on the wrist and they continue on.

 

[Rianne]

I've wrestled with all of the above. I think about the late 1800s, early 1900s. The earth had so many seemingly infinite resources. Commerce revolved around trade, making money. Why would businesses use free energy such as the wind and sun? Fewer jobs and less money to be made.

This is true with all of our resources. Wood, food, clothes, and comforts in general. We overproduce and increase choices to our detriment. Sustainability is the key IMHO. Use oil and gas, produce food and create markets for clothes and other such necessities. Why so much? Must we remodel every year and buy a new wardrobe as seasons change? I'm for using our resources but gluttony is another thing entirely.

 

[Koolau]

I think the nexus is that big tobacco knew cigarettes cause cancer and spent a lot of money on advertising and lobbyists to deny it. Similarly the fossil fuel industry knew from their own researchers that they were causing climate change and also spent a lot of money on advertising and lobbyists to deny it and delay any action to oppose climate change. It is one thing to not want to be regulated and another to continue a practice that you know to be harmful, through deceit. At the crux of it is the deceit and the knowingly doing harm to make a buck, once the harm was identified.

I'd like to discuss the facts of this further but I guarantee Porky would come calling so I'm just gonna drop it. It's too touchy a subject.

So I'll just suggest we all keep in mind what happened to the money from the Big Tobacco settlement. A token went to "stop smoking" programs - roughly 2% - but most has gone to State and municipality "wish lists." IIRC my old municipality got a fire truck out of the deal so far.

Here is a site with the most generous view I could find of what happened to Tobacco money so far: https://www.npr.org/2013/10/13/233449505/15-years-later-where-did-all-the-cigarette-money-go

Here is one a bit less enthusiastic about what has been done so far with tobacco money. https://www.cagw.org/thewastewatche...ories,of $246 billion over the first 25 years.

Be careful what you wish for you shall surely get it (heh, heh, though YMMV.)