Space - The Final Frontier

HFWR said:
“Space” is not a friendly place for humans. Until we solve the health-related issues, we shouldn’t be in too big a hurry.
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You have a good point.

In my mind we need two things to make space travel 'safer'. Better protection from the hazards of space - radiation, zero or low G, etc. And/or we need to limit the time people spend in Space by finding new faster ways to get through Space. Six months to Mars (at a minimum) is an awfully long time to be exposed to the hazards of Space. Imagine a new form of propulsion that could do it in six weeks instead of six months. How that can be done is beyond me. I would think it needs advances in Physics and Engineering.

Here are several ideas for nuclear fusion and ion engines:

https://www.space.com/23445-mars-missions-superfast-propulsion-incredible-technology.html

https://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/technology/Ion_Propulsion1.html
 
It was pretty hazardous exploring THIS planet, back when all we had were wooden sailing ships, horses and camels!

None of those issues are insurmountable. And there will always be people willing to take risks to become explorers. I find the alternative - sitting here waiting for an asteroid to take out our whole species - unacceptable.

In the longer view, there's also genetic modification.
 
While I am sorry that the Kepler spacecraft has seen the end of its useful life, I am amazed at what it has found out there 2600 planets.

Amazing stuff.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nasas-...-discovering-thousands-of-planets-2018-10-30/

Kepler also found planets "completely unlike those in our solar system," he told reporters. "Some of those, in fact, might be actual water worlds. We've also found planets that were formed at the beginning of the formation of our galaxy six-and-a-half billion years before the formation of our own star and before the formation of the Earth. Imagine what life might be like on such planets."
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We are not going to confirm life on other solar systems until we send probes there. That isn't going to happen until someone figures out how to achieve near light speed travel. In my opinion, Kepler was a waste of money measuring blips passing in front of stars and astronomers speculating about massive water worlds from those blips. Deep space astronomy is far too speculative. Money could have been better spent exploring our solar system. I'm not saying there isn't life on in other planets in other solar systems, there most likely is, but the distances are too vast for us to prove it in our lifetime and generations to come. Maybe this is by design to prevent worlds from destroying each other.
 
The SETI people had another idea to confirm life on other planets. So far it seems pretty quiet out there. Since, given our current understanding of the constraints on travel over interstellar distances, the chance we will actually be able to send anything out of the solar system in a targeted way anytime soon seems very remote. Best bet would seem to be identify candidate planets and direct light speed messages toward them. Given that we haven't received same seems to suggest not many civilizations. Granted that we have only been able to receive for a hundred years and have only been listening for 50.
 
Freedom56 said:
We are not going to confirm life on other solar systems until we send probes there. That isn't going to happen until someone figures out how to achieve near light speed travel. In my opinion, Kepler was a waste of money measuring blips passing in front of stars and astronomers speculating about massive water worlds from those blips. Deep space astronomy is far too speculative. Money could have been better spent exploring our solar system. I'm not saying there isn't life on in other planets in other solar systems, there most likely is, but the distances are too vast for us to prove it in our lifetime and generations to come. Maybe this is by design to prevent worlds from destroying each other.
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Sorry, but basic science is required to advance... and the cost of this was small peanuts compared to the info acquired...


And what do you mean about exploring our solar system:confused: We do that all the time... looks like 56 missions listed just for Mars... many failed, but they cost money.... clicked on a few but did not see costs of these missions...




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_Mars





Now got curious.... this is a QUICK look at Wiki... so do not hold me to these numbers as being accurate...



2 for Mercury (least explored planet)

43 to Venus
9 for Jupiter
5 for Saturn
1 for Uranus and Neptune (at least what is listed... do not know why they said Mercury was least explored)


Now, Voyage was included in most of the outer planets so there is double (triple or more) counting...
 
Texas Proud said:
Sorry, but basic science is required to advance... and the cost of this was small peanuts compared to the info acquired...


And what do you mean about exploring our solar system:confused: We do that all the time... looks like 56 missions listed just for Mars... many failed, but they cost money.... clicked on a few but did not see costs of these missions...




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_missions_to_Mars




Now got curious.... this is a QUICK look at Wiki... so do not hold me to these numbers as being accurate...



2 for Mercury (least explored planet)

43 to Venus
9 for Jupiter
5 for Saturn
1 for Uranus and Neptune (at least what is listed... do not know why they said Mercury was least explored)


Now, Voyage was included in most of the outer planets so there is double (triple or more) counting...
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How about sending more probes onto the surface of Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune or the moons of Jupiter and not every few decades. I thought the New Horizons fly-by of Pluto was a worthwhile mission. At least we know it's more than a white blip in a field of stars with a red arrow pointing at it. Spending more money on Mars is also a waste of time. It's a dead planet and it's time to move on. We aren't going to terraform Mars anytime soon. I know they are planning a Venus mission as JPL engineers used part of the facility where I worked to test a probe decent into a high pressure atmosphere. That was about 5 years ago.

I'm not against astronomy or space research. I have a bit of money invested in two telescopes, mounts, and a collection of ED lenses. I think money should be spent on sending more probes rather than human conquest of space and deep space telescopes.
 
Realize that we learn about our solar system and it’s development by looking at other solar systems in deep space. Looking at only our planets is a very narrow view.

Personally, I’m glad for all of the space research that happens. It gives us a deeper understanding of our universe.
 
tulak said:
Realize that we learn about our solar system and it’s development by looking at other solar systems in deep space. Looking at only our planets is a very narrow view.

Personally, I’m glad for all of the space research that happens. It gives us a deeper understanding of our universe.
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I wish they had a replacement for Hubble.... the Webb telescope is infrared and not the same.. and it is way past when it was supposed to be sent up..


Also, the Webb was supposed to launch in 2007 and now it is 2021... here is a list of changed dates and updated costs... it does not look good...


Wow... cannot past a table... the budget has gone from .5 billion to 9.6 billion...


Then-planned launch and costs
Year Planned
launch Budget Plan
(Billion USD) 1997 2007[74] 0.5[74] 1998 2007[77] 1[50] 1999 2007 to 2008[78] 1[50] 2000 2009[35] 1.8[50] 2002 2010[79] 2.5[50] 2003 2011[80] 2.5[50] 2005 2013 3[81] 2006 2014 4.5[82] 2008 2014 5.1[83] 2010 2015 to 2016 6.5 2011 2018 8.7[84] 2013 2018 8.8[85] 2017 2019[86] 8.8 2018 2020[87] ≥8.8 2018 2021[88] 9.66
 
First interstellar object found in our solar system

Somehow I missed this one: A year ago, scientists discovered the first object from interstellar space that had entered our solar system (Object Oumuamua--and I'm not kidding). It exhibited some unusual behavior (motion not attributable to gravitational influence of known bodies in the solar system). Since then, experts have been trying to explain its motion. For example, after it passed our sun, it was accelerating instead of slightly decelerating due to the sun's gravity, as would be expected. At first scientists thought it was likely due to outgassing (as a comet does), but there wasn't evidence of that. A new explanation is that the motion is due to the solar wind, but this requires that the object be very thin (less than 1 mm).
At risk of sensationalizing things, one explanation is that the object is not natural--that it is an artificial object, perhaps a probe with a "solar sail." In the past, every time we've explained unusual findings as signs of life elsewhere (this happened with quasars, pulsars, etc), a much more plausible natural explanation eventually was discovered, and that will almost surely happen with Oumuamua. Still, interesting.

More here.
 
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All these worlds are yours – except [-]europa[/-] oumuamua - attempt no landing there

:D
 
samclem said:
Somehow I missed this one: A year ago, scientists discovered the first object from interstellar space that had entered our solar system (Object Oumuamua--and I'm not kidding). It exhibited some unusual behavior (motion not attributable to gravitational influence of known bodies in the solar system). Since then, experts have been trying to explain its motion. For example, after it passed our sun, it was accelerating instead of slightly decelerating due to the sun's gravity, as would be expected. At first scientists thought it was likely due to outgassing (as a comet does), but there wasn't evidence of that. A new explanation is that the motion is due to the solar wind, but this requires that the object be very thin (less than 1 mm).
At risk of sensationalizing things, one explanation is that the object is not natural--that it is an artificial object, perhaps a probe with a "solar sail." In the past, every time we've explained unusual findings as signs of life elsewhere (this happened with quasars, pulsars, etc), a much more plausible natural explanation eventually was discovered, and that will almost surely happen with Oumuamua. Still, interesting.

More here.
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Recent comment on the article referenced (seems plausible?):

Author: Cjones1

It (the passing object) was comparatively slow moving for a UFO which have been clocked at speeds of 150,000 mph. I read that the Little Gray aliens reputedly originate from the Zeta Reticuli system roughly 40 light years away and the Nordic aliens from the Pleiades which are roughly 400+ light years away. Even at the clocked speed it would take hundreds of thousands to millions of years to make those journeys. It could be a remnant of a survey object created by pre-Holocene Earthlings who were forced to relocate due to the chaos and inundation that occurred when the Pleistocene glaciers melted.
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LOL!!:LOL:
 
One week to the next Mars Landing on November 26.

It will be broadcast live on NASA TV.

Mars Landing InSight is set to touch down on Mars at around noon Pacific (3 p.m. Eastern) on Nov. 26, 2018. The lander will plunge through the thin Martian atmosphere, heatshield first, and use a parachute to slow down. Then, it will fire its retro rockets to slowly descend to the surface of Mars, and land on the smooth plains of Elysium Planitia.
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https://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/insight/timeline/landing/summary/

https://marsprogram.jpl.nasa.gov/insight/timeline/landing/watch-online/
 
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Very cool, thanks for the links. Watched it "live"... amazing achievement.
 
It was interesting but would have been better if there were actual pics... I know there could not be but hey...


Let's just hope that the equipment works...




One thing that I am surprised is that they said this is only the 8th successful landing on Mars... thought there would have been more...
 
Those cube sats are interesting. If they can survive interplanetary space trips (which they seem to have from what I have read) they will greatly lower the cost of various types of probes.
 
I think miniaturization is the next "big" thing in space exploration. Look at all the things they can pack into a cell phone. Imagine sending one of those off to explore. Or sending a thousand. You'd have to swap out a few parts, but essentially all those sensor-on-a-chip thingies inside could be almost anything.
 
If you haven't seen the failed attempt to land the Falcon 9 first stage booster, here it is.
I guess the SpaceX engineers have a bit more work ahead of them in the next few months. The first landing failure of the Falcon 9 in 2 1/2 years. They've made it look easy, but nothing about Rocketry is easy.

Overall, a successful launch.

 
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Nice! I was looking for a video like that but couldn't find it. Thanks!!

During the live broadcast, they cut away from the video link from the booster right after it started oscillating and spinning. You could hear from the people in the background that something was very wrong. The narrator did a great job of switching gears, but it was pretty clear things weren't going well.

Then I heard a big cheer in the background. Now it's clear that was because the booster managed to almost recover and simulate a perfect landing - but on the water.

I read somewhere that the hydraulic system which moves the grid fins failed. Makes sense. I also read that they got great telemetry right up to the end, so they should be able to piece together the cause. It's great that the video stream continued right through the "landing" and beyond.
 
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