Space - The Final Frontier

[MuirWannabe]

In Ft. Lauderdale. Just watched what I assume was the Spacex launch. Just fortuitous timing seeing it in the sky as we were walking through a restaurant parking lot. Was quite a treat. Even watched the booster return.

These coastal Floridians get quite a view!

 

[CaptTom]

Since you have experience. Who decides what organization gets priority?

Ultimately jurisdiction lies with the Captain of the Port; generally the highest ranking CG official in the sector. They have the authority to declare a restricted zone for whatever reason, and to enforce it. They have procedures for processing requests, and will take into consideration all the competing business needs.

This looks like a deliberate act. There's no excuse for the bridge crew on a cruise ship not knowing what regulations are in effect. Presumably they made the corporate decision that dealing with the repercussions of violating a COP order and costing SpaceX tens of thousands of dollars was less inconvenient than delaying their departure by 10 minutes. I hope they made the wrong call. Otherwise it sets a very bad precedent.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

"cruise liners" have been in the news these days. Let's just say the industry as a whole is not behaving very well as of late. If they can run away to sea to avoid paying their fuel bill, what concern would an exclusion zone have for them? International law and all.

As of late? Talk to the folks that live in Alaska. There is not much love for the incessant dumping of waste products to which the lines say, "oops...sorry about that", pay the fine and...do it again. Sorry...off topic.

I happened to see the crazy visual effects of the Space X rocket last night...very cool looking out here in flyover country.

 

[clifp]

One of the nice things, about the forum, is you learned things from people who actually know what's they are talking about cause they've done them.

It certainly seems like at the very least SpaceX lawyers, need to send a letter to Royal Caribbean, asking for compensation and threatening holy hell if they pull another stunt like that.

 

[CaptTom]

"cruise liners" have been in the news these days. Let's just say the industry as a whole is not behaving very well as of late. If they can run away to sea to avoid paying their fuel bill, what concern would an exclusion zone have for them? International law and all.

No, we're talking US laws here. And if they (a foreign-based company running a foreign-flagged ship) want to do business here then, yes, they better be concerned with US law.

As for the company which kept their ship out of US waters to avoid seizure for an overdue fuel bill, that's just a small part of a very much larger international bankruptcy. They were a relatively smaller player in the cruise industry, and they were vertically integrated with a shipyard in Germany which went bankrupt. I don't know all the details, but they were trying to keep some units operating while they tried to untangle the whole mess, and having a ship seized to pay one creditor wouldn't be in the best interests of all the other creditors, or the owners.

 

[mystang52]

The actual video of a Venus flyby is maybe 2 seconds long, but I was enthralled enough to watch it about a dozen times. Yes, the article itself is likewise very interesting:
https://www.space.com/parker-solar-...utm_term=c1ff9c58-0555-4297-b3ff-813ec325c2e1

 

[JoeWras]

The actual video of a Venus flyby is maybe 2 seconds long, but I was enthralled enough to watch it about a dozen times. Yes, the article itself is likewise very interesting:
https://www.space.com/parker-solar-...utm_term=c1ff9c58-0555-4297-b3ff-813ec325c2e1

Thanks. I learned something today. Growing up it was: "You'll only see clouds on Venus. Gonna need a radar mapping."

Not so fast. Turns out the longest of visible light comes through on the dark side of Venus. Very cool.

 

[Christine]

SpaceX gave an update for journalists and investors yesterday.

Over an hour but some interesting videos and animations included.


Some highlights:
- They want people to live on Mars as a life insurance
- They want to inspire people and make life exiting
- The new Starship is capable of transporting the 1 million tons of goods needed on Mars
- They plan to have two launch sites and factories - R&D on Starbase - production and launches from Cape Canaveral
- Elon hinted that more missions are planned in addition to NASA returning to the moon and a privately funded Dear Moon mission which will go around the moon
- They are currently waiting for approval from FAA to launch Starship from Starbase - perhaps it will come in March
- By end of this year they hope to make one Starship and one booster per month

 

[Yoheadden]

Some fascinating technology. Like Elon said, it’s hard to believe that exists.

I also got a chuckle out of him calling Mars “A fixer upper”

 

[CaptTom]

Worth the time to watch, thanks.

I was struck by some of his math. Three Starship launches per day for each ship, ten ships in services, every day for a year.

I can see why reality often falls short of his projections. Still, I'm rooting for him. He is changing the world for the better.

 

[Chuckanut]

SpaceX gave an update for journalists and investors yesterday.

I remember how exciting the launch of Falcon Heavy was. What a show! Starship (a bad name IMHO) will be even more impressive. Personally, I think the first launch will be a success as long as Starship gets high enough to not take out the launch pad when it blows up.

 

[Fermion]

He should have called it Firefly

 

[Chuckanut]

He should have called it Firefly

How about something like Sunbus since it is designed to make travel to other places in our solar system routine. I know it sounds silly, but so does calling the new stadium in Seattle 'Climate Pledge Arena'.

 

[Fermion]

What got me from the video was the robotic launch tower.....that thing is lifting an apartment building off the ground and stacking it on top of another apartment building....insane.

Also, the V1 to V2 engine improvements, increase thrust and half the cost with lower complexity. At the ~29 min mark they show one of them static firing...it is like a laser beam of fire.

Out of curiosity I checked the Brownsville, TX area to see if there were any beachfront houses you could rent for a month in March to catch this launch....there are, but they are about $30,000/month.

 

[rocketjockey]

I was struck by some of his math. Three Starship launches per day for each ship, ten ships in services, every day for a year.

I can see why reality often falls short of his projections. Still, I'm rooting for him. He is changing the world for the better.

As a former lieutenant in the SpaceX army, this is standard Elon process. Everyone picks on his overzealous schedules and goals, but he has a reason for his crazy. If he asks for 1 launch a month, employees will work at that goal and maybe get one or one every other. We never get to Mars or if we do, it won't be in his lifetime. If he asks for 3 per day, employees will kill themselves to try and do it and MAYBE get one every day. If he gets 1 per day, he still has one launch per day more than anyone else will ever do.

See Tesla and SpaceX for endless examples of this process.

 

[CaptTom]

As a former lieutenant in the SpaceX army, this is standard Elon process.

I've often wondered about the working environment there.

Clearly it's high-energy, and I imagine Musk expects his employees, or at least the higher-level ones, to match his 110% commitment to the company. In a way, it sounds exciting and fulfilling. But you must not have much of a life outside work.

 

[rocketjockey]

I've often wondered about the working environment there.

Clearly it's high-energy, and I imagine Musk expects his employees, or at least the higher-level ones, to match his 110% commitment to the company. In a way, it sounds exciting and fulfilling. But you must not have much of a life outside work.

Two Words: Meat Grinder.

Stocks vest in 5 years, lots of people quit at 5 years and a day. I made it half that before I decided the money wasn't worth the pain.

It is exciting and fulfilling if you are a 20-something and single. Which most new hires are. As they age and look for a life, or if they start later like I did, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

I still solidly support the mission and think going to Mars is the right move for humanity. I just don't want to work the 60+++ hour weeks/holidays/weekends/anniversaries/etc to do it any more!

My technicians used to joke SpaceX is the only $20/hour job you can make over $100K/year at!

 

[stephenson]

I think unmanned is about it ... for now.

Manned is possible, but it's a one way trip. Sure, someone would volunteer, but ...

 

[clifp]

As a former lieutenant in the SpaceX army, this is standard Elon process. Everyone picks on his overzealous schedules and goals, but he has a reason for his crazy. If he asks for 1 launch a month, employees will work at that goal and maybe get one or one every other. We never get to Mars or if we do, it won't be in his lifetime. If he asks for 3 per day, employees will kill themselves to try and do it and MAYBE get one every day. If he gets 1 per day, he still has one launch per day more than anyone else will ever do.

See Tesla and SpaceX for endless examples of this process.

I remember five years ago, watching Elon talk about the BFR and his crazy idea how to colonize Mars. IIRC, this was the year was supposed to be the unmanned first flight to Mars. He also said the Starship would fly in 2019.

So it is true that Elon, is awful at hitting milestones. On the other hand, watching him give the talk, with a 400' high rocket, with twice the thrust of Saturn V, in the background was amazing. Saturn V took 8 years, and cost 10x as much, and had NASA, and the best engineers in the country working on it. The Saturn V was considered one of the great engineering feats.

I'm not sure that any large flying vehicle. has gone from concept to first flight in 5 years since the Apollo program I think it takes Detroit 5 years to make a car.

My friend, who is now 10+ year veteran of Tesla, says Elon's crazy demands are a bit saner. Sometimes he is even able to get him to budge on his schedule. One time, they showed Elon the NHTSA approval process made it physically impossible for a schedule to be met and he relented.

Steve Jobs was the same way, and Intel's Andy Grove was incredibly demanding in the early years of Intel. He proudly had a copy of Fortune's 'toughest boss in America", displayed in his cubicle

I suspect its mostly a management trick, but part of it is Elon is so damn smart and works so hard, that makes and estimate how long it would take him to design something, not fully appreciate how mere mortals work.

 

[Christine]

I think that part of the reason people are OK with working crazy hours for Elon is that they believe that the mission is important - going to Mars for SpaceX or changing the world's energy into renewable options for Tesla.


I know that if I was a student I would find this very exiting and I would have tried to get a job there. Since I'm far from that I'll settle for buying one of his cars.

 

[clifp]

I think that part of the reason people are OK with working crazy hours for Elon is that they believe that the mission is important - going to Mars for SpaceX or changing the world's energy into renewable options for Tesla.


I know that if I was a student I would find this very exiting and I would have tried to get a job there. Since I'm far from that I'll settle for buying one of his cars.

Absolutely, if Tesla and especially SpaceX had existed in 2000, I would have gone to work there instead of retiring. I might have even had a shot of being hired, although I doubt it.

A few years after joining Tesla my friend asked about retiring early. I told him I know it is brutal to work there, but you'll never work for a smarter guy, and it is very unlikely you'll do more important work, so don't be in hurry to retire just because you could financially.

 

[Chuckanut]

Absolutely, if Tesla and especially SpaceX had existed in 2000, I would have gone to work there instead of retiring. I might have even had a shot of being hired, although I doubt it.

A few years after joining Tesla my friend asked about retiring early. I told him I know it is brutal to work there, but you'll never work for a smarter guy, and it is very unlikely you'll do more important work, so don't be in hurry to retire just because you could financially.

IMO, Mr. Musk is turning the science fiction of my youth into reality. I first started to realize that when SpaceX started reusing spacecraft such as the original cargo Dragon vehicle. It was reinforced when I saw the double booster landing from the first flight of the Falcon Heavy. It reminded me of artist conceptions of spaceports with rockets taking off and landing. Now we are reusing manned spacecraft. And watching Starship flip over to make a propulsive vertical landing was and is just amazing. I have to admit I'm glad I'm not in the vehicle when it makes that flip. I doubt if my stomach could take it.

Tesla is the same thing but on a consumer scale. That said, I am sure the other auto companies could catch up with Tesla at some point. Maybe even surpass them. But, do they have the vision to do so? I don't know.

 

[ejman]

^^^^^
When I look at a picture of the Starship I'm seeing a real spaceship per my reading of the wonderful science fiction of the mid 20th century of my youth. Do they use hydrazine in that ship?

 

[Fermion]

Two Words: Meat Grinder.

Stocks vest in 5 years, lots of people quit at 5 years and a day. I made it half that before I decided the money wasn't worth the pain.

It is exciting and fulfilling if you are a 20-something and single. Which most new hires are. As they age and look for a life, or if they start later like I did, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.

I still solidly support the mission and think going to Mars is the right move for humanity. I just don't want to work the 60+++ hour weeks/holidays/weekends/anniversaries/etc to do it any more!

My technicians used to joke SpaceX is the only $20/hour job you can make over $100K/year at!

My wife's project lead at her former stint as a software dev now works at SpaceX...it does sound like a meat grinder. I'd still do it myself though, although I couldn't convince her before we retired to apply....she didn't want to be designing software where a bug could incinerate people instead of just annoying someone playing HALO.

 

[Gumby]

My wife's project lead at her former stint as a software dev now works at SpaceX...it does sound like a meat grinder. I'd still do it myself though, although I couldn't convince her before we retired to apply....she didn't want to be designing software where a bug could incinerate people instead of just annoying someone playing HALO.

When I was in my 20s, I had jobs which, if I screwed up, could result in my death and the deaths of many other people. It gave me great perspective on life, and a lot of confidence.