Spouse Older - Retiring Together or Separate

[chris2008]

Congrats to you both, enjoy one step at a time.

 

[tbis]

Just a minor update. DW LOVING her first month of retirement and DH is envious for sure but...the feared market downturn looks to be here at least in some way/shape/form so I'll keep on keepin' on at megacorp for a while yet...sigh.

 

[pacergal]

Glad your wife is enjoying retirement--She is probably way less stressed so your days off are more relaxing.

Can you Plan for some fun trips or staycations for your vacation days in the next year or so of your work? Or take any sabbatical to make the time go faster?

 

[RxMan]

This is something DW and I have discussed. I’m approximately 13.2 years older than she is. I’m definitely closer to an age where I’d like to retire. I think we will try and retire together (or relatively close together) so we can enjoy as much time together as possible.

She is on board with the FIRE idea. I think she idolizes the idea of the freedom to do what you want with your time as I do. I wouldn’t characterize either one of us as hating our jobs.

What I hope this means for us is that we will work approximately five more years and then retire sometime in the same year. This will put me at approximately 53 years old and my wife will be 40. She will really be able to go at an early age if we can afford it.

We’ll have to account for health insurance and the fact that on average she will have a lot of time left after I’m gone. That will probably manifest itself in a variety of ways including when we decide to start taking SS.

I could also see a scenario where I’m itching to make the leap to retirement but she will be willing to continue to work for a couple of more years. In this scenario I may decide to try and find part time work to maintain some positive cash flow while still giving myself more free time.

We’ll see how it plays out and a lot depends on the markets. We also just spent a ton of money on our first RV so that debt will need to be paid down. It’s worth it though because we didn’t want to wait until retirement to start traveling/having adventures.

I know we’ll take the time to make sure our numbers will work before retiring. I just hope I don’t get caught up in OMY thoughts or just general anxiety about the possibility of running out of money. At this point I’m just trying to get through each week of work knowing it’s one more step in a very large plan.

 

[tbis]

Hi all, OP here, coming up on one year anniversary of my post on this topic. As a reminder, my wife retired at the end of last year (2021) when she was let go. I, however, am still working, BUT the work itself here at Megacorp has become pretty terrible (not just the usual bureaucracy and politics, but ugly changes to the "core" actual work). I am in that "one more really bad day and I pull the trigger" mindset, and honestly I likely would have already if it weren't for the market crash (which may have a lot more drop ahead!).

Given the market conditions, we have been analyzing our expenses closely and are seriously considering going much leaner for the next couple of years (i.e.$100K spend vs. the $148K) by shaving travel, the planned new car, and a few other key areas) to live off of our cash savings ($200K) while we keep our fingers crossed and hope market bottoms and starts to recover in that window (darn you "Sequence of Returns" risk!).

Anyway, that's my update for now...I hate when people post these questions and you never know what happens!

Oh, and once again, I appreciate all the thoughtful replies.

 

[pacergal]

What does firecalc say about the updated change in spending? If the numbers work, and you are comfortable about it, go for it!
If needed, are you willing to do some sort of part time job to make it happen.

To me, time is more important than money. I would do what I could to make the budget work long term.

 

[MarieIG]

Hi all, OP here, coming up on one year anniversary of my post on this topic. As a reminder, my wife retired at the end of last year (2021) when she was let go. I, however, am still working, BUT the work itself here at Megacorp has become pretty terrible (not just the usual bureaucracy and politics, but ugly changes to the "core" actual work). I am in that "one more really bad day and I pull the trigger" mindset, and honestly I likely would have already if it weren't for the market crash (which may have a lot more drop ahead!).

Given the market conditions, we have been analyzing our expenses closely and are seriously considering going much leaner for the next couple of years (i.e.$100K spend vs. the $148K) by shaving travel, the planned new car, and a few other key areas) to live off of our cash savings ($200K) while we keep our fingers crossed and hope market bottoms and starts to recover in that window (darn you "Sequence of Returns" risk!).

Anyway, that's my update for now...I hate when people post these questions and you never know what happens!

Oh, and once again, I appreciate all the thoughtful replies.

What about putting feelers out for a position with another employer? You don't have to take anything you don't want, but you may find something . . . Personally, I had planned on retiring from one employer, but took another job (which was a big improvement until Covid hit).

 

[tbis]

What does firecalc say about the updated change in spending? If the numbers work, and you are comfortable about it, go for it!
If needed, are you willing to do some sort of part time job to make it happen.

To me, time is more important than money. I would do what I could to make the budget work long term.

Firecalc indicates that we are 100% with any annual spend below $139K using our current savings number - $2.5M - (which, of course, could and likely will drop as the bear market continues) and predicted combined SS starting in 2028 of $66K - that's a 34 year window (to age 90 for me...yes, to some that is too low, but it's what I am comfortable with).

Firecalc is essentially the SAME result if I drop the retirement window to 32 years with the same $2.5M....(i.e. simulating a model where the $2.5M nest egg drops and recovers to same level after 2 years and we live on the $200K cash in that 2 year window) - this really shows how market earnings (or lack thereof) are the biggest pieces of the puzzle (obviously).

If I had to do a part time gig I would, but sort of loathe the thought of it being in the corporate world.

 

[tbis]

What about putting feelers out for a position with another employer? You don't have to take anything you don't want, but you may find something . . . Personally, I had planned on retiring from one employer, but took another job (which was a big improvement until Covid hit).

My real value is in my very specific industry knowledge...and I have a pesky one year non-compete agreement now. Is it truly "enforceable"...who knows? I'm not really keen to test it, but it might come to that. Of course, nothing says it couldn't be after that first year, but as I noted in my reply immediately prior to this, I am a bit loathe to continue on in the corporate world. I know, I know...can't have cake and eat it too!

 

[MarieIG]

My real value is in my very specific industry knowledge...and I have a pesky one year non-compete agreement now. Is it truly "enforceable"...who knows? I'm not really keen to test it, but it might come to that. Of course, nothing says it couldn't be after that first year, but as I noted in my reply immediately prior to this, I am a bit loathe to continue on in the corporate world. I know, I know...can't have cake and eat it too!

Your non-compete may be enforceable. There is a lot of caselaw on non-competes.

There is employment outside the mega-corp world . . .

 

[Koolau]

My real value is in my very specific industry knowledge...and I have a pesky one year non-compete agreement now. Is it truly "enforceable"...who knows? I'm not really keen to test it, but it might come to that. Of course, nothing says it couldn't be after that first year, but as I noted in my reply immediately prior to this, I am a bit loathe to continue on in the corporate world. I know, I know...can't have cake and eat it too!

Yeah, if you really thing you need to w*rk to make FIRE a reality, then stay and slack off. What are they gonna do? Fire you??

 

[MarieIG]

Yeah, if you really thing you need to w*rk to make FIRE a reality, then stay and slack off. What are they gonna do? Fire you??

A good point but - personally, I was utterly incapable of slacking off.

 

[Koolau]

A good point but - personally, I was utterly incapable of slacking off.

Yeah, that was my problem too. So I just left when I got an assignment that would have been drudgery. For, literally, a couple of minutes, I pictured myself taking the assignment, slacking off, enduring the "negative feedback" and eventually retiring with a bigger nest egg. I couldn't do it. Not for a year, not for a month - probably not for a week. I just couldn't do it even though I (sort of) felt justified. YMMV

 

[MarieIG]

Yeah, that was my problem too. So I just left when I got an assignment that would have been drudgery. For, literally, a couple of minutes, I pictured myself taking the assignment, slacking off, enduring the "negative feedback" and eventually retiring with a bigger nest egg. I couldn't do it. Not for a year, not for a month - probably not for a week. I just couldn't do it even though I (sort of) felt justified. YMMV

Ditto . . .

 

[tbis]

I've thought about the whole "slacking" thing (or "Quiet Quitting" as it is being popularly termed now), but I'm sure it would get even more unbearable. There is a general lack of subject matter expertise here at megacorp and I am one of the relatively few that have it (unfortunately, they sort of resent me for that - ha!) - as a result I get a lot of stuff funneled my way. The pile will just get bigger as I slack...and like others, my personality struggles to just let it "pile up".

I am basically taking it a week at a time at this point...a battle between my tolerance for this job and well, the current bear market!

Appreciate the feedback as always.

 

[EvrClrx311]

Late to OPs original question, but it's a good one that I think many face. There is no right answer, but it's definitely a good idea to look at the value of your time and health as an equation that takes into consideration both you and your partner.

My wife and I are a similar age gap, but the other way (she's younger), and we both LOVE to travel, and explore. We are not quite there yet, but we've had a lot of discussions about maximizing our ability to see the world once kids are grown up and we're financially able to (mid to late 50s is our target). It wasn't until my 40's that I suddenly realized I'm not super human, and although I envision myself being fit enough to climb mountains in my 70s, reality is I may not be able to - and 50's is when we would want to do most of that kind of shared passion. I'm certainly reassessing the "taking more time off to do that stuff, but working longer than I would have liked..." as a part of the equation. That is, getting to retirement at 55 vs. 62 isn't as ideal, if it means I only get to do those physically active things for 8 years instead of 15. If rearranging my work situation to have 2-3 months off a year to do that stuff, but working 5-7 years longer is the trade off... maybe that or meeting half way is better than retiring at 55 and not traveling so much. So we're weighing this as well as a part of the equation.

Cancer and health is a curve ball that can devastate any well thought out plan. I haven't yet read your messages since OP, but I sincerely hope your DW is doing ok! I would err on the side of doing the things you know you'd regret later without her, now, while you can. Obviously within reason, to protect your ability to not work till you're 80. But sounds like you won't have that problem.

 

[ncbill]

Late to OPs original question, but it's a good one that I think many face. There is no right answer, but it's definitely a good idea to look at the value of your time and health as an equation that takes into consideration both you and your partner.

My wife and I are a similar age gap, but the other way (she's younger), and we both LOVE to travel, and explore. We are not quite there yet, but we've had a lot of discussions about maximizing our ability to see the world once kids are grown up and we're financially able to (mid to late 50s is our target). It wasn't until my 40's that I suddenly realized I'm not super human, and although I envision myself being fit enough to climb mountains in my 70s, reality is I may not be able to - and 50's is when we would want to do most of that kind of shared passion. I'm certainly reassessing the "taking more time off to do that stuff, but working longer than I would have liked..." as a part of the equation. That is, getting to retirement at 55 vs. 62 isn't as ideal, if it means I only get to do those physically active things for 8 years instead of 15. If rearranging my work situation to have 2-3 months off a year to do that stuff, but working 5-7 years longer is the trade off... maybe that or meeting half way is better than retiring at 55 and not traveling so much. So we're weighing this as well as a part of the equation.

Cancer and health is a curve ball that can devastate any well thought out plan. I haven't yet read your messages since OP, but I sincerely hope your DW is doing ok! I would err on the side of doing the things you know you'd regret later without her, now, while you can. Obviously within reason, to protect your ability to not work till you're 80. But sounds like you won't have that problem.

IMHO, sooner's always better than later.

The successful MALE early retirees I've know IRL all were retired by their mid-50s, and by age 70 riding on a bus on tours and walking a mile or two on flat ground was their physical limit, even though they had been in good physical shape all their lives.

I expect my older spouse will be hiking with my kids & their families at least a decade after I'm no longer able.

Locally we just lost our beloved retired Scoutmaster who led the local Troop for 25+ years after a short illness...he was all of 68.

 

[tbis]

OP Here for a quick update on my 14 month old post.

- Financially, we've taken a healthy hit in our 401ks/IRAs (down 24% or so)
- As noted in previous post, DW got a package in January of this year and retired....her severance pay ran out in August.
- Market is still poopy, and I suspect the Fed's rate raises are about to have the desired effect and layoffs will begin en masse soon...this will in turn lead to worse earnings reports as demand wanes across most industries...and an even bigger stock market plunge.

The wild card in all of this is that I was just offered a package at work. If I were to pull the trigger, a few tidbits:

• The income from the package would cover our planned $148K/annual expenses through 2023.
• We would receive subsidized Cobra for 9 months and full price Cobra for the next 9 months
• DW actually turns 65 in the spring...and would switch to Medicare at that point
• As a reminder, I am 56, but wouldn't likely start on ACA until January of 2024 (would be on Cobra all next year).
• Since DW hits 65 next year we will get an additional property tax exemption.
• If I plug in every dime we have into Firecalc and assume I am basically "retired" in late 2023 (when my package payout ends) I get a 99.2% success rate (1 scenario fails).
• Work at Megacorp has become even more intolerable since my last post (impressively so)

So, I have a couple of weeks to decide if I roll the dice and go for it or chicken out (almost exclusively due to SOR fears in what is still a falling bear market). My "package" gives me a year buffer before I have to tap savings (which my Firecalc assumes), but my magic 8 ball keeps saying "Ask me again later...".

Decisions, Decisions!

 

[Philliefan33]

OP Here for a quick update on my 14 month old post.



- Financially, we've taken a healthy hit in our 401ks/IRAs (down 24% or so)

- As noted in previous post, DW got a package in January of this year and retired....her severance pay ran out in August.

- Market is still poopy, and I suspect the Fed's rate raises are about to have the desired effect and layoffs will begin en masse soon...this will in turn lead to worse earnings reports as demand wanes across most industries...and an even bigger stock market plunge.



The wild card in all of this is that I was just offered a package at work. If I were to pull the trigger, a few tidbits:

• The income from the package would cover our planned $148K/annual expenses through 2023.
  
• We would receive subsidized Cobra for 9 months and full price Cobra for the next 9 months
  
• DW actually turns 65 in the spring...and would switch to Medicare at that point
  
• As a reminder, I am 56, but wouldn't likely start on ACA until January of 2024 (would be on Cobra all next year).
  
• Since DW hits 65 next year we will get an additional property tax exemption.
  
• If I plug in every dime we have into Firecalc and assume I am basically "retired" in late 2023 (when my package payout ends) I get a 99.2% success rate (1 scenario fails).
  
• Work at Megacorp has become even more intolerable since my last post (impressively so)
  

So, I have a couple of weeks to decide if I roll the dice and go for it or chicken out (almost exclusively due to SOR fears in what is still a falling bear market). My "package" gives me a year buffer before I have to tap savings (which my Firecalc assumes), but my magic 8 ball keeps saying "Ask me again later...".



Decisions, Decisions!

I would take the package. When I was still at Megacorp, a colleague was offered a package but declined. He would’ve gotten 50 weeks pay as part of the package but he said the numbers didn’t work for him. Fast forward 11 months and he was laid off without a package. He worked a year for basically nothing.

If you are worried about the numbers, remember that retiring with the package doesn’t preclude you from finding other (less stressful) employment. Maybe you could do something part time until you have more confidence that you won’t have to eat beans in your old age.

 

[Koolau]

It seems to me that all is well except the issue of health care for you. I would research how you will bridge the time from end-of-cobra to MC. If that is doable, you should be in good shape.

One other thing, since you estimate retirement spending at almost $150K, that should leave a fair amount of "slop" in you planning. Most of us who have been retired for a while are used to up and down years in spending - especially if we get a bit edgy about the economy (2008 was actually a big spending year for me due to remodeling but lots of folks cut back for a year or two.)

Obviously, we don't have a crystal ball, but you seem to be in very good shape indeed. As always, YMMV.

 

[tbis]

Ironically, my "package" is almost identical to our standard severance package (which is based on years of service - and I have been there forever). However, I am fairly unlikely to be let go...BUT I am much more likely to get fed up and quit (w/o any severance)...indeed, I wrote my resignation letter in August and it has been "sitting there waiting" ever since.

As to the healthcare, I was always "aware" of ACA plans, but went on a crash course over the last few weeks. Basically, my annual budget allocates $18K for "healthcare" (premiums and all care) for my wife and I. I know the ACA subsidies were extended for 3 years, but no guarantee beyond that of course....regardless, I know the $18K number will be way too low in later years when a full price gold ACA plan for just me could be $15K in premiums alone (and I have to add my wife's medicare premiums too)! Beyond that, my big disappointment with the ACA plans in our area was the lack of participating providers. Of course ANY pre-65 retirement means relying on ACA for me so it is what it is there...

I agree on the "slop" giving us some decent wiggle room...some big "one" time expenses this year does give me pause of course.

 

[Koolau]

Ironically, my "package" is almost identical to our standard severance package (which is based on years of service - and I have been there forever). However, I am fairly unlikely to be let go...BUT I am much more likely to get fed up and quit (w/o any severance)...indeed, I wrote my resignation letter in August and it has been "sitting there waiting" ever since.

As to the healthcare, I was always "aware" of ACA plans, but went on a crash course over the last few weeks. Basically, my annual budget allocates $18K for "healthcare" (premiums and all care) for my wife and I. I know the ACA subsidies were extended for 3 years, but no guarantee beyond that of course....regardless, I know the $18K number will be way too low in later years when a full price gold ACA plan for just me could be $15K in premiums alone (and I have to add my wife's medicare premiums too)! Beyond that, my big disappointment with the ACA plans in our area was the lack of participating providers. Of course ANY pre-65 retirement means relying on ACA for me so it is what it is there...

I agree on the "slop" giving us some decent wiggle room...some big "one" time expenses this year does give me pause of course.

Sorry, but I forgot to review the thread. I assume DW is completely on board at this point. Should you have to cut back, will she be okay with that for a year or so? Quite honestly, a couple on the same page is as important as having financial ducks quacking in unison. Good luck!

 

[W2R]

tbis,

Sounds to me like you have a good idea of the plusses and minuses of retiring early or continuing on. So now, it's just "decisions, decisions..." Not easy!

I have been retired for 13 years. If ACA had been available before I retired, I guarantee you that I would have retired 2 years earlier than I did. But then, by saving as much as possible while waiting for health care to kick in, I also created a lot of "slop" so (short of entire civilizational collapse) it's pretty much impossible to worry about money these days.

Being down 24% sounds like quite a hit, indeed, especially considering that you're still working. Might be time to review your asset allocation. I don't know. I'm down 15% but then I have SS and I'm not withdrawing anything.

 

[mystang52]

From my lay financial "expertise" I'd vote for you to take the package and enjoy the next stage of your life.

 

[Dash man]

Take the package. Time > Money