Sr Housing Dilemma

[jazz4cash]

We see lots of questions here about qualifying for a mortgage with assets but no or low income. This is same issue but for an apt rental. I’ve been trying to help my 83 yo cousin find an apartment in our HCOL region. It’s crazy. Lots of nice newer units for seniors with 30-50k annual income but she only has SS and it’s well below the average payout. The really low income programs (Sec 8) all seem to have long waiting list and/or not taking applications. She does have savings but most places won’t accept that in lieu of income. Curiously they do count RMDs but it you have same amount in non IRA account you can’t use it. One place won’t accept a 1099, they want an award letter.

We contacted the county but all they do is pass out a list but you must contact the locations individually, pay $15-40 application fee to get on a list and wait who knows how long.

I’m counting my blessings that I don’t expect to ever be in her position. Any renters here have issues showing income to qualify for a rental?

 

[ERD50]

I think this was mentioned in an earlier thread - offer to pay a year in advance, or set up an escrow account?

-ERD50

 

[razztazz]

How much would the savings buy if it was turned into , say, a 5 year annuity? The previous thread mentioned above got me thinking. I might be there in the next few years. I'm looking at age 70 +/-. I have little income but a huge retail / non "qualified" investment account. A 5 yrs annuity would make me look like I'm raking it in.

 

[aja8888]

Its bad everywhere. Around here, to get in a Sec 8 apartment complex there is a minimum 2 year wait.

A new complex of expensive senior apartments were built a few miles from us last year and they are full, with rents starting at $1,600/mo. I understand the waiting list is also very long, and these are really classy units. Going along with these apartments are assisted living units (currently under construction) and I hear they are filling up, but occupancy won't be for a good while.

 

[Bamaman]

We have patio apartments all over the place intended for retired singles. And they're very nice--all on one level.

We also have a number of assisted living 1 br. apartments with 3 meals a day for about $2,050 a month. We had my 92 year old aunt in one until she finally had go to a full nursing home.

Any apartment should be glad to have a resident that had assets that were documented.

Let me just say that the really large metro areas are often not the most healthful places for retirees. Sometimes a place with more activities provides a superior quality of life.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

One of our local senior organizations has a senior roommate matching service. If you have something similar your area, the financial requirements might be less stringent to just be a roommate in a private home than a renter from a megacorp owned apartment building.


The other option I can think of for affordable housing would be what imoldernu used to post about - a used park model home - Mobile Homes... and like that - Early Retirement & Financial Independence Community (early-retirement.org)

 

[jazz4cash]

These are good positive suggestions. Thanks. My OP was a bit of a rant but now I have some action items.

 

[jazz4cash]

I think this was mentioned in an earlier thread - offer to pay a year in advance, or set up an escrow account?



-ERD50

Ah yes you are correct. Offered 1 yr in advance but they said no at the only two places that actually have vacancies (so far). These nice newer units are privately managed using a Low Income Tax Credit. They claim the rules are enforced in case they get audited.

 

[MissMolly]

Ah yes you are correct. Offered 1 yr in advance but they said no at the only two places that actually have vacancies (so far). These nice newer units are privately managed using a Low Income Tax Credit. They claim the rules are enforced in case they get audited.

They are correct. I worked for the State Housing Agency here in KY. We administered the Section 8 and the Tax Credit contracts. The audits are real and the penalties for failing to abide the rules are real. They aren't just blowing smoke.

 

[jazz4cash]

They are correct. I worked for the State Housing Agency here in KY. We administered the Section 8 and the Tax Credit contracts. The audits are real and the penalties for failing to abide the rules are real. They aren't just blowing smoke.

Yes, I didn't think they were blowing smoke because they were actually very professional. It's just that some rules seem arbitrary.

 

[ERD50]

Yes, I didn't think they were blowing smoke because they were actually very professional. It's just that some rules seem arbitrary.

Yes, I was kinda thinking they might have their hands tied by some form of bureaucracy on that, but figured it was worth a try.

While it's easy to criticize, it's also tough to make rules and accommodate all situations, even when you try (which they might not have anyhow). Oh well, gotta play the cards you are dealt. Good luck.

-ERD50

 

[jazz4cash]

Yes, I was kinda thinking they might have their hands tied by some form of bureaucracy on that, but figured it was worth a try.



While it's easy to criticize, it's also tough to make rules and accommodate all situations, even when you try (which they might not have anyhow). Oh well, gotta play the cards you are dealt. Good luck.



-ERD50

Yeah, and I actually like when rules are enforced reasonably, even when they seem to be e arbitrary.

 

[jazz4cash]

Update. They are reopening her application for the complex where she really wants to be. I’m not sure why unless they decided her assets can offset her income after all. The office managers appear to be going to bat for her with “the board”. All I know is they now need 8 months of bank statements which we provided twice already. The first set was tossed when they denied her previously. They won’t accept the second set because I blacked out a portion of the account numbers. They insist on unmarked originals of all pages of her bank statements for 8 months. I have them on my PC already so I’ll send them over and shmooze with the office managers a bit. Feelin’ good!

 

[Bamaman]

You know it's tough being a retiree in the middle. Too many assets to get into low income housing, but not enough income to meet criteria to get into a regular, nice apartment. It's a real world situation that could happen to many of us.

I would think that the moratorium on evictions the last 18 months has rewritten the rules that apartments follow. Get'em in and you cannot get'em out for non-payment of rent. Local courts ruling on evictions will be clogged up for a couple of years with last weeks SCOTUS ruling.

Another issue is that retirees do best living close to where their relatives are. And often, that's not in a normal cost of living place. We're fortunate to live in a LCOL place.

We've been looking for somewhere for my daughter to live by herself (single income), and even ghetto house trailers are $600 a month. Bottom line 1 bedrooms are $900 a month and respectable apartments are $1500 a month. No wonder the younger generations are shacking up all the time.

Good luck to the lady finding an affordable place to live.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I hope the low income housing option works out. If not, to expand on imoldernu's posts on the frugal advantages of trailer parks, is this article -

How the Trailer Park Could Save Us All - A healthy, inexpensive, environmentally friendly solution for housing millions of retiring baby boomers is staring us in the face. We just know it by a dirty name. https://psmag.com/social-justice/how-the-trailer-park-could-save-us-all-55137

One of our kids' friends got by in a very HCOL area by renting a bedroom in a flat and then even sharing that bedroom with a roommate. So the $1,600 a month apartment rent becomes $400 per person rent a month. Another young adult rented a house with 4 other friends. With public transportation, senior services like free lunches, senior center activities, SNAP benefits, Medicare and Medicaid, library services, senior public transportation passes, etc. one could live a fairly normal middle class life in a HCOL area just on SS with government services, community services and frugal living tactics. If you can get housing covered it is likely cheaper to live on SS in a big urban area with a wide choice of public transportation and senior services.

I have some friends and family members who have not saved enough for retirement so I have done some research on this. On forums like Reddit's beer money and Slickdeals "what I got free in the mail today" there are pretty easy ways to make a few extra thousand a year just by doing random online stuff with an Internet connection. One poster on the beer money forum makes like $2K a month without having a real job and just doing little online tasks like playing videos for reward points. He just does a lot of little stuff and it all adds up. Like you can get paid to just "print" coupons to a PDF or doing searches and answering quizzes in Bing search engine. For someone living mainly on SS, an extra $5k a year from simple online tasks is pretty huge income boost.

 

[jazz4cash]

You know it's tough being a retiree in the middle. Too many assets to get into low income housing, but not enough income to meet criteria to get into VB a regular, nice apartment. It's a real world situation that could happen to many of us.

This is so true. She applied while her husband was in assisted living but they had too much income/assets. In reality could not afford the house and assisted living fees. List the house (short sale). Husband died. No survivor benefits exc SS. Made some bad decisions along the way. Now she’s in that middle ground….but there’s great news!

 

[jazz4cash]

I called the management office and she was approved yesterday (last day of the month) contingent on receipt of 8 months of “clean” bank statements. Apparently a very dear friend inquired on her behalf and agreed to co-sign for her. I say co-sign but the form does not appear to be enforceable to me. The giver must prove income from salary, pension, or SS 7x the gift amount. Amazing. They even have multiple vacancies and offer 1st month free but I believe they vet applicants with a veil of limited supply.

 

[FANOFJESUS]

Curious how much did your cousin have in the bank? What was the rent amount? I am a numbers person.

 

[youbet]

^^^^ Is this going to be a public, private or public subsidized private situation?

And congrats!

 

[pb4uski]

I called the management office and she was approved yesterday (last day of the month) contingent on receipt of 8 months of “clean” bank statements. Apparently a very dear friend inquired on her behalf and agreed to co-sign for her. I say co-sign but the form does not appear to be enforceable to me. The giver must prove income from salary, pension, or SS 7x the gift amount. Amazing. They even have multiple vacancies and offer 1st month free but I believe they vet applicants with a veil of limited supply.

If they need income, couldn't you buy a short term immediate annuity to "generate" the required income? For example, say she needed to show $2k/month of income.... a 5-year period certain annuity would provide $2,016/month for 5 years for $120k. I suspect that you could get a shorter term.

 

[jazz4cash]

If they need income, couldn't you buy a short term immediate annuity to "generate" the required income? For example, say she needed to show $2k/month of income.... a 5-year period certain annuity would provide $2,016/month for 5 years for $120k. I suspect that you could get a shorter term.

What happens after 5 yrs? I did consider a lifetime annuity but it would only get her half of what she needs. I probably should’ve come here for ideas at the very beginning of her search. The period certain annuity would probably help her qualify but in reality it would transfer some of her meager assets to the annuity co. She has about 90k. I would be taking on a huge liability to encourage something like that.

Her income is 40% of what she needs to qualify. The minimum income is only 1.9x rent. Private landlords generally want > 3X I think. The section 8 type subsidies set the rent at 30% of income. This place is private but the developer/manager has structured the complex such that it qualifies for a Low income Tax Credit and the rents are maybe 80% of market rate. This particular place is for 55 and older so I suspect many residents are still working.

 

[Octogirl]

Just a comment to expand on posts re: the frugal advantages of trailer parks, RV Parks.
We bought an Airstream trailer and leave it at a RV park at the Jersey Shore instead of purchasing a condo. Most of the others RVs are there for the season and owners are from all income levels. It was a good choice for us. We wanted the location and a smaller 2nd home but with the flexibility to change our mind and move it without concerns for taxes and real estate price fluctuatations.

 

[younginvestor2013]

I work in the low income housing tax credit industry (LIHTC “lie-tech” as it is commonly referred to) and can tell you that the minimum and maximum income qualification rules (amongst others) are very stringent and not just made up. Tenants at LIHTC communities have to fit in a fairly narrow income range to meet the minimum income requirement to be able to actually afford rent (typically 2x rent) but also must not earn too much given that the owners must rent to individuals below certain income thresholds.

There are tons of LIHTC apartments across the country that are in great condition and could easily be mistaken for market rate housing.

Anyone who is open to living in an apartment community and has income of >$10-15k but under $40k (income limits vary by region and # of household members) should definitely look into LIHTC apartment options, which can easily be found thru a simple web search.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Just a comment to expand on posts re: the frugal advantages of trailer parks, RV Parks.
We bought an Airstream trailer and leave it at a RV park at the Jersey Shore instead of purchasing a condo. Most of the others RVs are there for the season and owners are from all income levels. It was a good choice for us. We wanted the location and a smaller 2nd home but with the flexibility to change our mind and move it without concerns for taxes and real estate price fluctuatations.

That would be an even better idea as than the park model for a senior on a budget for the reasons you mentioned, especially being much easier to move, if needed.

The late Tony Hsieh, the former CEO of Zappos, lived for many years in an Airstream in an RV park by choice because he liked to sense of community - Remembering Tony Hsieh For Being A Trailer Park Pioneer - Mobile Home University

 

[jazz4cash]

I work in the low income housing tax credit industry (LIHTC “lie-tech” as it is commonly referred to) and can tell you that the minimum and maximum income qualification rules (amongst others) are very stringent and not just made up. Tenants at LIHTC communities have to fit in a fairly narrow income range to meet the minimum income requirement to be able to actually afford rent (typically 2x rent) but also must not earn too much given that the owners must rent to individuals below certain income thresholds.

There are tons of LIHTC apartments across the country that are in great condition and could easily be mistaken for market rate housing.

Anyone who is open to living in an apartment community and has income of >$10-15k but under $40k (income limits vary by region and # of household members) should definitely look into LIHTC apartment options, which can easily be found thru a simple web search.

Now that I have focused on these LIHTC complexes I see a ton of very nice cookie cutter locations. The older ones are ~25 yrs old from what I’ve noticed. I seem to recall a free dinner seminar pitching investment opportunities on these things 20 yrs ago. I’m interested in learning about current investment opportunities. I imagine some type of REIT funds are available.