ss while working confusion .

[mathjak107]

so i started collecting ss pre fra in sept while doing some wprk .

i got one of those projected income forms from ss but i am trying to figure out out how it works .

you have to check the boxes you made more than 1410 a month on this form ,after you started collecting so in my case it is sept ,oct ,nov dec

they do not ask how much you made , only the fact it was over 1410 .

so if i started collecting in sept and made 1411 ,1411 oct, 1411 nov and 1000 bucks in dec ,according to how it reads you would give back 3 months checks ? then that is not 1 dollar for every 2 you earned over because you were over 1 buck a month,even though 1410 x4 months is more ?

on the other hand what if you got 1 check a quarter so you got zero sept , zero - oct , zero nov and 5000 in dec ? you would keep 3 checks and give one back yet you are below 1410 x4 ?

it makes no sense. what makes sense is the amount is somehow prorated for the 4 months and you give back nothing unless you went over 5640 in any combo but the form asks nothing about amounts you received .

 

[kaneohe]

sounds like you are running up against the special rule for 1st yr of SS when under full retirement age https://socialsecurityintelligence.com/social-security-income-limits/

It does sound like a monthly limit on earnings and they don't care how much you are over/under the limit , just whether you are over or under the limit each month. In the case when you are paid quarterly, I would guess they don't care how much you are paid but how much you EARN MONTHLY.

 

[mathjak107]

i agree , it is kind of a bizarre structure
it seems kind of silly to give back a month for 1 buck over but from what i am reading on line that is just what happens first year . the earning limits and the giving back 1 dollar for every 2 does not seem to start until year 2 .

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In 2014, a person younger than full retirement age for the entire year is considered “retired” if monthly earnings are $1,290 or less. That monthly figure is based on dividing the annual earnings limit of $15,480 by 12.
For example, let's say Mr. Milinovich's client John Smith retires at 62 on Oct. 30, 2014. He will earn $45,000 through October. Then he takes a part-time job beginning in November, earning $500 per month. Although his earnings for the year substantially exceed the 2014 annual limit of $15,480, he will receive a Social Security payment for November and December because his earnings in those months did not exceed the monthly limit of $1,290.
If, however, Mr. Smith earns more than $1,290 in either November or December, he will not receive a benefit for those months. Beginning in 2015, only the annual limit (which is increased for inflation each year) would apply to him.

 

[mathjak107]

so here is another good question :

what happens to any spousal benefits paid out that first year ?

if you end up giving back some checks for going over 1410.00 does any spousal get pulled back too for those months ?

don't forget if they don't pull the spousal back you could file at 62 while working and earning full pay , give it all back being over the limit , it would be as if you delayed filing yet your spouse would still be getting spousal like you filed if they do not pull the spousal back too . .

 

[ivinsfan]

All this confusion and payback issues and spousal issues is another good reason to just let your benny grow until your FRA, when this becomes a non-issue...

 

[mathjak107]

well it really only involves 2 months at best so no reason not to . i enjoy the 1 day a week i work and would have volunteered to do something like it for free . so the fact i get paid is a bonus .

i just got a little screwed up because of the special first year rules which are not based on you give back 1 dollar for every 2 you earn over the 16,920 limit .


in this case if you filed in sept and you earn 1411 for sept ,1411 in oct ,1411 in november and 200 in dec , you would lose 3 checks .

but if you got 1108 in sept 1108 in oct ,1108 in nov and 1108 in december you earned the exact same amount but under first year rules lose no checks .

 

[Sunset]

If this work is self employment you can raise your expenses by making more lavish choices as SS only counts net earnings from self employment.

 

[mathjak107]

it is not ,but self employment uses different rules and is time based

 

[mathjak107]

here are the rules for self employment and filing early. they are pretty complex just because the self employed can manipulate earnings .



https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclop...urity-early-retirement-the-self-employed.html

 

[brucethebroker]

The self employed can also split income if the spouse helps out. That helps keep the income and hours worked Kosher.