Sweet Spot, Living Where Low Taxes

I'm in California and I can't say taxes are that bad a deal here. Weather alone offsets the 3% or so difference from the lesser taxed states. Why, that's only $3,000 on a $100,000 income. I can snow ski in the morning and play a round of golf in the afternoon all within maybe 50 miles of my house. Or spend a weekend along the Pacific coast. Go wine tasting.

Humidity; you can keep it! Grew up in Missouri, lived in Mississippi, Florida and I can't say enough about the humidity and bugs.

I also save a bundle on electricity having installed solar in an area that gets over 300 sunny days a year. Homes weather better in this climate as well.

I suppose the politics are bad, but recognizing that there just isn't much of anything I can do about it but turn it off and not play their game has minimized that angst.
 
Another Reader said:
If I were paying Prop 13 taxes only, my property tax would be 65 percent of what it is. Fees, parcel taxes, new bonds (the proceeds of which are largely drained off for other purposes) account for over a third of my property taxes.

My state income tax is not that high because Social Security is not taxed and I work the depreciation on the rental real estate to the maximum. The sales tax and property tax together are probably four to five times what I pay in income tax.

What do I get for my money? Overcrowding everywhere, high crime, drug addicts, alcoholics and mentally ill people living on the streets, polluted air, impossible traffic and so on. California, particularly the Bay Area, was a good place to live until the mid or late 80's. Not today.

Our definitions of quality of life differ. I don't go to local parks any longer because the homeless have made them unsafe. To go to Napa would likely mean four hours in traffic, especially on a weekend. I would not go to the Oakland zoo because of the crime in the area. I'm not sure there is any ideal place today, but my choice would be a cleaner, less crowded, and safer place to live.
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If you look at a crime map, Oakland has some sketch parts and also some very nice areas. The average home price in Piedmont is over $2M. The zoo gets a 4.5 out of 5 on tripadvisor and seems very safe.

Hiking and walking groups and exploring all the parks and hiking trails are a big activity for most of the senior clubs in our area.

What do you do for fun?
 
daylatedollarshort said:
If you look at a crime map, Oakland has some sketch parts and also some very nice areas. The average home price in Piedmont is over $2M. The zoo gets a 4.5 out of 5 on tripadvisor and seems very safe.

Hiking and walking groups and exploring all the parks and hiking trails are a big activity for most of the senior clubs in our area.

What do you do for fun?
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I know a number of people that live in Piedmont. Most have had break ins or attempted break ins. Fancy alarm systems don't seem to deter that. Cars are broken into all the time. One guy at my former employer lived in Montclair. He drove into his garage and had a gun held to his head when he got out of his car twelve years ago. A couple of months after I retired, someone was assassinated near the downtown Oakland McDonalds. My parents lived in what is now a $2MM neighborhood in Berkeley. Petty theft and break ins were rampant 20 years ago when my father sold and moved to San Jose.

Reviews on Trip Advisor are written by people that are in and out of the area in a few hours. People I know that have gone to to events at the zoo said they were not likely to go back and certainly not after dark.

There isn't anything "fun" to do here if safety and convenience are important to you. The Bay Area is overcrowded, dirty, and in many areas a dangerous place to live.
 
skipro33 said:
I'm in California...

I suppose the politics are bad, but recognizing that there just isn't much of anything I can do about it but turn it off and not play their game has minimized that angst.
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See, this is what broke the camels back for me to leave California.

Sure I thought the taxes where too high, and the services subpar, and the climate too boring (I love seasons). And especially the crowded living conditions.

But what really upset me was the uncompetitive politics. It is basically a one party state. I now live in a state that leans one way, but has US Senators from both parties. It is far from perfect, but elections matter here and it is worth getting involved and participating in public life.

In California I knew too many people who decided that they couldn't make a difference any more and so checked out.

Sadly, I see that leading down a dark path.
 
I live in Nevada, Las Vegas, no state tax, 8.25 sales tax (not on groceries). 3000 ft2 home, worth $650,000 property tax is $4500, A/c 24/7 in summer highest bill is $290. Four seasons, gets hot in summer but no humidity. Yes lots of friends and family members visiting it is Vegas. Lake Mead is 20 minutes drive, Mount Charleston for skying is 45 minutes drive and temperature is 20 degrees less. 4 hours drive you are at the ocean in So Cal. Lots of state and national parks within driving distance. Lots of people are moving from California and lots and lots of retirees, I believe the appeal of the Casinos.
 
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What drove us out of Thousand Oaks, Ca (Ventura County) in 1990 with two beautiful pre-teenage daughters at that time, was the following:

1. Crime rates went nuts in our town and county due to the spread of illegal drugs and the folks that are in that business.
2. Schools were overcrowded.
3. You could buy illegal drugs on any corner in town.
4. While our property tax amount was fixed, the bond issues for things like an amphitheater and new civic center, etc cost the same amount as our property tax (none of this $$ was for added police funding)
5. The kid's school wanted parents to pay for the textbooks!
6. My commute to L.A. was royal hell.
7. I could go on...

No place is perfect, but when your town starts going to pot, it's time to reconsider your choices. Taxes ain't everything!

If you really want to see an area that has absolutely gone to hell, spend some time in old east coast manufacturing towns like Waterbury, Connecticut. When we left CT in 1980 for sunny southern California, CT had no state income tax and it was pretty vibrant from an economic standpoint. Now it's gone.
 
Another Reader said:
Reviews on Trip Advisor are written by people that are in and out of the area in a few hours. People I know that have gone to to events at the zoo said they were not likely to go back and certainly not after dark.

There isn't anything "fun" to do here if safety and convenience are important to you. The Bay Area is overcrowded, dirty, and in many areas a dangerous place to live.
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Have you ever been there? My mom's play groups used to go there regularly and now our friends now take their grandkids there. It is interesting you know so many people who wouldn't go back when I don't know a single person who has actually been there over decades of living here ever saying anything about safety.

You probably would be happier moving and you could sell your house to someone who really wants to live here, since housing is in such short supply.
 
The Oakland area may have gentrified recently. But I still wouldn’t like living there.
 
daylatedollarshort said:
Have you ever been there? My mom's play groups used to go there regularly and now our friends now take their grandkids there. It is interesting you know so many people who wouldn't go back when I don't know a single person who has actually been there over decades of living here ever saying anything about safety.

You probably would be happier moving and you could sell your house to someone who really wants to live here, since housing is in such short supply.
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I grew up in that area. Worked in Oakland for 11 years before I retired in 2007. Every professional in my office lived east of the hills or in southern Alameda County. And most of them grew up in the area. I still go up there for various reasons. I would not live there.

I will not sell because I have to pay an outrageous price in capital gains tax. I will spend less time in California and may eventually rent this house, keeping another property as a second home. If the attack on Prop 58 transfers on properties that are rented succeeds in 2020, I will definitely move into that property before it takes effect.

I don't know how old you are or how long you have lived here. I'm old enough to remember the football parades on Shattuck Avenue in Berkeley in the 1950's and the Key system trains on the bottom deck of the Bay Bridge. My parents took me to Fairyland in Oakland when I was little. Been there recently? If you went to San Francisco, you dressed up. The 60's were the beginning of the changes that led us to where we are today. The deterioration started to accelerate in the late 1980's and things have become really unpleasant over the last 15 years or so.

YMMV.
 
Another Reader said:
I grew up in that area. Worked in Oakland for 11 years before I retired in 2007. Every professional in my office lived east of the hills or in southern Alameda County. And most of them grew up in the area. I still go up there for various reasons. I would not live there.

I will not sell because I have to pay an outrageous price in capital gains tax. I will spend less time in California and may eventually rent this house, keeping another property as a second home. If the attack on Prop 58 transfers on properties that are rented succeeds in 2020, I will definitely move into that property before it takes effect.

I don't know how old you are or how long you have lived here. I'm old enough to remember the football parades on Shattuck Avenue in Berkeley in the 1950's and the Key system trains on the bottom deck of the Bay Bridge. My parents took me to Fairyland in Oakland when I was little. Been there recently? If you went to San Francisco, you dressed up. The 60's were the beginning of the changes that led us to where we are today. The deterioration started to accelerate in the late 1980's and things have become really unpleasant over the last 15 years or so.

YMMV.
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I’ve been raising rent on my rentals in anticipating prop 58, if they pass the prop 58, I definitely would kick the tenants out and move back in. Good tenants, nevertheless, I don’t need the aggravation. A lot of people will do the same I can imagine.
 
We are only 3 1/2 hours from San Francisco and used to go every year. 2 years ago was the last time because it was so dirty with garbage everywhere and the smell of urine. I read that they now pay people to pick up human poop daily. Ugh! Placerville is a beautiful place and we go every October for 5 days.
 
Another Reader said:
I grew up in that area. Worked in Oakland for 11 years before I retired in 2007. Every professional in my office lived east of the hills or in southern Alameda County. And most of them grew up in the area. I still go up there for various reasons. I would not live there.

I will not sell because I have to pay an outrageous price in capital gains tax. I will spend less time in California and may eventually rent this house, keeping another property as a second home. If the attack on Prop 58 transfers on properties that are rented succeeds in 2020, I will definitely move into that property before it takes effect.

I don't know how old you are or how long you have lived here. I'm old enough to remember the football parades on Shattuck Avenue in Berkeley in the 1950's and the Key system trains on the bottom deck of the Bay Bridge. My parents took me to Fairyland in Oakland when I was little. Been there recently? If you went to San Francisco, you dressed up. The 60's were the beginning of the changes that led us to where we are today. The deterioration started to accelerate in the late 1980's and things have become really unpleasant over the last 15 years or so.

YMMV.
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I hope you find your personal paradise. Some of those areas I'm sure have changed over the years and are changing still as they are being gentrified due to the high demand for housing. It sounds like a win win if you move and rent your house to someone who would really enjoy living here like we do.
 
Teacher Terry said:
We are only 3 1/2 hours from San Francisco and used to go every year. 2 years ago was the last time because it was so dirty with garbage everywhere and the smell of urine. I read that they now pay people to pick up human poop daily. Ugh! Placerville is a beautiful place and we go every October for 5 days.
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My kid goes to SF regularly. She did mention something about homeless rode the bus without pay. Last time we were there it was 2015, when my kid had a summer internship near Palo Alto, I did go to SF, I don’t recall it detoriated that badly. I’ll find out next year on one of my road trips.
 
Teacher Terry said:
We are only 3 1/2 hours from San Francisco and used to go every year. 2 years ago was the last time because it was so dirty with garbage everywhere and the smell of urine. I read that they now pay people to pick up human poop daily. Ugh! Placerville is a beautiful place and we go every October for 5 days.
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We live in the Placerville area and it's become nuts every fall during 'Apple Hill' season. When our kids were young, their soccer games were on weekends and it was impossible to get through the bay area traffic coming to experience the country livin'. Many games were forfeited when a team could not be assembled to take the field. That was 20 years ago. It's steadily gotten worse after a brief reprieve during the recession. Being retired, I go up to High Hill Ranch mid week in the morning for my apple fritter and a cup of coffee. :dance:


The town government won't stand for a bypass of Hwy50, the major interstate that runs through town with 3 stop lights. This is a huge part of the problem. If there was a by-pass, wouldn't be nearly so bad, but the merchants on Main St. will never allow that to happen. Sunday afternoon/evenings are worst as the bay area crowd returns from Tahoe. The area is also growing fast in the wine industry, which I actually live closer to; Shenandoah Valley in the south county area of El Dorado. Steady traffic on Hwy 49 all weekend long with most of it loud Harley motorcycles and weekend wanna-be bikers.
 
timo2 said:
There have been numerous reports posted on this at this site in the last year. Every study has different criteria and thus different results. All the factors listed so far on this thread are much superior to any of the published studies I have seen. I do recall there was a study that had some county in the heart of the Appalachian Mountains of West Virginia or Kentucky that was the totally cheapest county to live in the USA. But I can't find the study right now.
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Every time I read one of the magazine articles on quality of life and cost of living, I just about always disagree. I have traveled the eastern half of the U.S. extensively for business and been to most larger cities and suburbs on the West Coast.

But home is home, no matter where you are from. And making life changes, especially if it means leaving your relatives and children/grandchildren, is very difficult.

I am just so thankful that my ancestors chose to move to the edge of the frontier in 1800 (leaving New Jersey), and that where I have chosen to live has a very low cost of living and a very high quality of life.
 
It was a long time ago, but back in the 1980's my business took me from Chicago to CA for about three years. Many times, instead of flying home for the weekend, I'd drive the mountains of CA... Placerville was a favorite stopping place, as one of my district managers lived there. We spent lots of time exploring within 150 miles. .
It was on my very short list of places to retire.
Very fond memories.:) I
 
imoldernu said:
Depends... no complaints here... :)

http://www.early-retirement.org/forums/f28/sweet-spot-living-where-low-taxes-93721.html#post2107909
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Different strokes for different folks. For me, the politicians here in Illinois are slimeballs, the state is on the brink of bankruptcy and the weather (from Dec. thru much of March) is depressing. Also, RE taxes are high. I would move in a heartbeat but wife won't budge.


One good thing - Illinois does not tax retirement benefits or ss . Given it's financial issues, would not surprise me this scenario changes very shortly.
 
When we go to Placerville we leave on Wednesday and return home on Monday to avoid the traffic. We have a motor home and a very nice KOA is there. They are getting expensive as well with us paying between 63-73/night depending on the day of the week.
 
GravitySucks said:
And snakes and fireants...

Anyone on here from Wyoming?
I like the Tetons and Medicine Bow areas. How does Wyoming 'get ya'?
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Wyoming native here.

The State routinely makes lists of "best places to retire" for a variety of reasons -- e.g., low tax burdens, quality of life, etc. https://money.cnn.com/gallery/retirement/2015/03/23/best-states-retirement/index.html. Wyoming is also a tax-friendly jurisdiction. https://smartasset.com/retirement/wyoming-retirement-taxes.

It isn't for everybody though (and we like it that way), and these decisions are highly personal, of course. But if you like the outdoors, prefer pronghorn antelope to people, can cope without having a shopping mall within 240 miles, and can cope with the occasional -40F day in winter, it's wonderful. We love it.
 
skipro33 said:
We live in the Placerville area and it's become nuts every fall during 'Apple Hill' season. When our kids were young, their soccer games were on weekends and it was impossible to get through the bay area traffic coming to experience the country livin'. Many games were forfeited when a team could not be assembled to take the field. That was 20 years ago. It's steadily gotten worse after a brief reprieve during the recession. Being retired, I go up to High Hill Ranch mid week in the morning for my apple fritter and a cup of coffee. :dance:


The town government won't stand for a bypass of Hwy50, the major interstate that runs through town with 3 stop lights. This is a huge part of the problem. If there was a by-pass, wouldn't be nearly so bad, but the merchants on Main St. will never allow that to happen. Sunday afternoon/evenings are worst as the bay area crowd returns from Tahoe. The area is also growing fast in the wine industry, which I actually live closer to; Shenandoah Valley in the south county area of El Dorado. Steady traffic on Hwy 49 all weekend long with most of it loud Harley motorcycles and weekend wanna-be bikers.
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IIRC, you lost your last house in a wildfire. Living in that area, do you fear another fire? I have never been to the Shenandoah Valley area, but it is very pretty. Looks very peaceful, except for the traffic. No idea it was full of wineries. What about the distance to services? Hospital? Grocery stores?
 
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