Talk me into or out of booking business class

[Bestwifeever]

I realize I'm in a very different class of net worth and spending than some on this thread, but I have to ask. I've seen multiple mentions of the ability to sleep in business class seats and that translates to 1-3 extra days of useful time once you land in Europe.

I've never done the Europe flight, but did a similar flight to Uruguay (on our Uruguay/Argentina/Buenos Aires vacation several years ago). We flew economy class using points (40,000 pts off season rates!). I recall it was 2 hours to Miami from Raleigh, then 9 hours overnight from MIA to Montevideo Uruguay. I slept some but not a lot (though DW reports sleeping well). I was a little groggy upon arriving in Montevideo but after some coffee and a decent meal I don't remember the first day being a bust at all. I probably went to bed early and it was fine after that.

Even if I spent a whole day half-asleep and then went to bed early, I'd still be way ahead in dollar terms (even after paying $100-200 for a hotel night plus another $50-100 for meals). I would partially "waste" a day but have an extra $1400 in my pocket using OP's prices (which would buy us an extra week or two of vacation depending on where we travel).

I would be all over a cheap 1st or business class upgrade for an 8-9 hour flight at ~$200-300 max, but not sure I would pay a lot more. Is it an age thing? Maybe I'll feel differently at 46 or 56 or 66 than I do now at 36.

edit: another confusing airline travel issue: why is early boarding so important and loved by many on this thread? I dislike being on a plane and want to board as late as possible (unless it's southwest and I want to pick a seat with my companion(s) ). I'd close the cabin door on my way in if they'd let me! Of course I'm in coach and many of you are in biz/1st so maybe that's the difference? Is it overhead space for your carry-ons? I figure if I can get on the plane 30 minutes later than the first people on, my flight is 30 minutes shorter!

edit 2: I only fly 1-2 trips per year so maybe the very infrequent inconvenience of coach doesn't bother me as much.

It's the time zones that cause jet lag, not the distance so much or age really imo. I don't think Uruguay is too many time zones away from where you live? Adjusting to jet lag is going to be difficult regardless of class of travel but being able to sleep a little on the destination's schedule helps a lot. We still found our kids when they were very little dozing with their heads on restaurant tables for a few days after arrival in Europe.

 

[FUEGO]

It's the time zones, not the distance so much or age really imo. I don't think Uruguay is too many time zones away from where you live?

Montevideo and Buenos Aires are 1-2 hours ahead of Eastern time - really not much difference. I've done the east coast to west coast USA trip a few times and the 3 hours difference wasn't noticeable. I imagine the 5 hour difference to Europe in the other direction would actually help if we have a sleepless night flight to Europe. By 9-10 pm in Lisbon we'll be dead tired even though it would only be 4-5 pm in Raleigh. Hit the sheets for 10 hours and we'll be back to a mostly normal daytime schedule in local time.

Coming back the other direction to the US, most of the flights end up in Raleigh late in the evening, so we'll probably be tired by the time we get home. If I'm worn out the next day or two after all day traveling, no biggie, I'll just watch some netflix and chill out. And coffee.

I guess we'll see how this theory works out in practice since I've never been to Europe and only flown 9+ hours on the round trip to Uruguay/Argentina (without kids in tow). I'm betting $4000 we'll be okay in coach.

 

[Aerides]

It's the time zones that cause jet lag, not the distance so much or age really imo. I don't think Uruguay is too many time zones away from where you live? Adjusting to jet lag is going to be difficult regardless of class of travel but being able to sleep a little on the destination's schedule helps a lot.

This. Traveling to the EU from US means you arrive tomorrow. A lot of flights go out in the early evening, and you arrive early morning (ie US 3-4am ish), so getting even 3-4 hours sleep is a leg up vs. none. EU hotels are far less likely to be liberal with early check-in as well, so you might need to spend some time sightseeing before you can get to a bed.

Oh and yes, airport lounge access! Particularly nice if you have a layover on the flight out, even a short one. Included when you fly business.

 

[marko]

I realize I'm in a very different class of net worth and spending than some on this thread, but I have to ask. I've seen multiple mentions of the ability to sleep in business class seats and that translates to 1-3 extra days of useful time once you land in Europe.


I would be all over a cheap 1st or business class upgrade for an 8-9 hour flight at ~$200-300 max, but not sure I would pay a lot more. Is it an age thing? Maybe I'll feel differently at 46 or 56 or 66 than I do now at 36.

edit: another confusing airline travel issue: why is early boarding so important and loved by many on this thread?

edit 2: I only fly 1-2 trips per year so maybe the very infrequent inconvenience of coach doesn't bother me as much.

The issue is not the length of the trip but the time zones. You generally leave the east coast US around 7PM and get to Europe around 7AM. But your body is saying it is really 1AM. ("Jet lag is my favorite drug" Jacques Cousteau)

So now your wander around your destination like a zombie or try to nap.
Yes, age and finances come into the decision making process. Some of us codgers have bad backs and those econ seats are killers. (Actually had an older co-worker foolishly book coach to Japan...ended up hurting his back so bad he was partially paralyzed and had to retire)

Getting on early is mostly about getting overhead space. After lugging your bag through the airport, you really don't want to have to gate check it because there's no more room.
Of course, in First, you get early snacks and wine/champagne/cocktails (which helps me sleep) while waiting for everyone else to board.

In the good ol' days, my airline had a separate boarding ramp that came directly from the club room. No waiting in line at the gate!

 

[Bestwifeever]

Montevideo and Buenos Aires are 1-2 hours ahead of Eastern time - really not much difference. I've done the east coast to west coast USA trip a few times and the 3 hours difference wasn't noticeable. I imagine the 5 hour difference to Europe in the other direction would actually help if we have a sleepless night flight to Europe. By 9-10 pm in Lisbon we'll be dead tired even though it would only be 4-5 pm in Raleigh. Hit the sheets for 10 hours and we'll be back to a mostly normal daytime schedule in local time.

Coming back the other direction to the US, most of the flights end up in Raleigh late in the evening, so we'll probably be tired by the time we get home. If I'm worn out the next day or two after all day traveling, no biggie, I'll just watch some netflix and chill out. And coffee.

I guess we'll see how this theory works out in practice since I've never been to Europe and only flown 9+ hours on the round trip to Uruguay/Argentina (without kids in tow). I'm betting $4000 we'll be okay in coach.

If you start a thread about jet lag a couple of months before you go I bet you will get a lot of great tips on how to deal with it.

 

[DrRoy]

The difference in price between coach and business class is $1600 (for both of you). The question is: is it worth it? And one way to answer that is "Is there any other way we could spend the $1600 that would bring us more happiness?" If there is, you should at least investigate spending the money in that way.

Another way to look at it: It's a difference in price of $800 each. If you had a seat in business class and someone offered you $800 to move to a coach seat for the flight, would you take it? It's, what, 12 hours in the seat, so that's $66 per hour. And it's not like there's a huge difference in the absolute sense--same plane, slightly better food, and a slightly wider seat.

That's the way I look at it also. What else could I do with the money, and would I prefer to do that?

 

[FUEGO]

So now your wander around your destination like a zombie or try to nap.

Get "paid" to nap by saving $800 when you stay in coach? Sounds like smart money!

Yes, age and finances come into the decision making process. Some of us codgers have bad backs and those econ seats are killers. (Actually had an older co-worker foolishly book coach to Japan...ended up hurting his back so bad he was partially paralyzed and had to retire)

I love to get up and walk around the plane. I sometimes wonder if I could do sit ups and push ups in the aisle to get the blood flowing but figure I'll get tossed in the brig by an air marshal for disorderly conduct or something.

 

[RobbieB]

Oh yeah, the real cost of buying anything is not buying something else (unless you are Gates) which most are not.

I spent my time in coach, not anymore -

 

[FUEGO]

Oh and yes, airport lounge access! Particularly nice if you have a layover on the flight out, even a short one. Included when you fly business.

Not such a big out of pocket cost. United's club is $15/person when you buy the passes on ebay ($27 at the club if you pay cash IIRC).

 

[FUEGO]

If you start a thread about jet lag a couple of months before you go I bet you will get a lot of great tips on how to deal with it.

I'm not too worried about it. We usually stay in a place for a week at a time so we'll have a day or two to cope with jet lag without missing out on anything. Just might have to schedule our "do nothing" days for the beginning of our week in Lisbon or wherever we end up. Or stay there 9 days instead of 7.

 

[ugeauxgirl]

We'll probably grab some lunch, and then hopefully we can check into our Airbnb or hotel a little early, grab a nap, and take it from there. Worst case we're off kilter for a day or two.

Do NOT take a nap! It makes it harder for your body to adjust to the new timezone and extends jetlag. Best thing to do is go outside and get sunlight, and try not to go to bed till a somewhat normal time. Try to get some sunlight first thing in the morning too- it really helps with jet lag-

 

[explanade]

Business class is not LBYM but you'll never convince people who can afford it that they shouldn't buy it.

 

[marko]

I sometimes wonder if I could do sit ups and push ups in the aisle

Yeah, there isn't much of that going on in First.

As I noted earlier you also tend to avoid crying babies, people who put their bare feet up on your headrest and other challenges. I once did have a couple having sex in the seat behind me though.

 

[marko]

Business class is not LBYM but you'll never convince people who can afford it that they shouldn't buy it.

I suppose it would depend on what 'your means' are.

I've always viewed LBYM as just not spending as much as you make, not always taking the cheapest way out.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

If you start a thread about jet lag a couple of months before you go I bet you will get a lot of great tips on how to deal with it.

You aren't kidding! It's different for different folks; no one is the same. I flew all over the world (Air Force flight crew) and I would go as far to say that every trip was different. Even though I made hundreds trips across the pond between Delaware to Germany, my jet lag symptoms could vary wildly depending on many, many factors. For me, flying west to east was much easier than east to west and for the *most* part, the time to adjust was 1/2 day per time zone. The worst jet lag I have ever had was coming back stateside from New Zealand...it took me a good 10 days to get back on track.

As far as upgrading, I am torn about this. I am a bigger fellow (6'3" and about 240 pounds) so the idea of sitting in coach for 10+ hours is nauseating to me. Then again, spending $1000+ more to be a "little" more comfortable is also nauseating. I don't miss the AF too much, but it was very nice to cruise around in a very large airplane that had pretty nice sleeping quarters onboard!

 

[rodi]

Moemg -
I would look at seatguru to see if the airline offers flat seats in business. If they don't I'd just do premium economy. We upgraded (because of a great deal) to biz class for our 9 week europe trip last year. (But the kids were in the back of the plane on the return - didn't upgrade them.) Our trip over had "almost flat" seats... but not the fancier lay flat seats. On the return, DH and I had the lay flat seats - but of course the flight was during the day so sleep was less important.

I'm currently pricing/planning a trip for summer 2017 to Japan. I always price all seating options... and if there's a "deal" I'm ready to go for it. But I was checking flights today - and it looks like JAL doesn't offer lay flat business seats on the flights I'm looking for. So if we upgrade on those flights it will be for premium economy rather than business.

Kids will be in the back of the plane, regardless... but my kids are older than FUEGO's kids.

Check Seatguru.com before you make your decision....

 

[FUEGO]

Kids will be in the back of the plane, regardless... but my kids are older than FUEGO's kids.

Their age is even more reason for me to escape the craziness and leave them in the back of the plane for quieter pastures in economy plus or biz class.

We were/are thinking about tacking on a side trip to Japan on top of a Europe trip next summer because we can book the Japan leg for only an extra 50,000 United miles total (plus a couple hundred in taxes probably). But just can't imagine sitting in any class of the plane for the flights to/from Japan with a hyperactive 5 year old (he's currently sliding down the stairs in cardboard boxes right now as I type and hasn't sat still since 6 am (11 hours ago... ohgodpleasehelp ).

On a different note, did you ever post a "trip report" here on your summer trip? I'm consuming as much media as I can right now to plan for our summer 2017 trip. Rick Steves' videos are great (and free on youtube) but seem to cater to adults (museums, churches, concerts, art, culture).

 

[Bestwifeever]

Do NOT take a nap! It makes it harder for your body to adjust to the new timezone and extends jetlag. Best thing to do is go outside and get sunlight, and try not to go to bed till a somewhat normal time. Try to get some sunlight first thing in the morning too- it really helps with jet lag-

Yeah, those are the kind of jet lag tips I thought Fuego might find helpful, but I guess not.

 

[CardsFan]

Regarding jet lag, I have found it best to set my watch (yes I still wear one) to local time, and then try to "live" in that time going forward. I make some adjustments for eating, but basically try to be on local time when I land. This easier to/from Asia. Flying to Europe you almost always land in the morning, and are toast by 3pm.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum

 

[Sunset]

If you're going to spend more, why not go with premium economy, take the $1200 you saved, live it up an extra day in Europe, and pocket part of the savings vs business class.

+1
Just what I was thinking, an extra day in Barcelona and the price difference could easily cover a hotel, nice meals, a tour and souvenirs.

BUT, having read through the thread, I would tell the OP to go Business Class because they earned it, they already know they will be leaving their heirs money.
I always told my Mom go spend it, travel, enjoy yourself, take that side trip to Russia from Scandinavia.
I am so glad she did, she loved her trips a lot more than I would care about an extra few thousands of inheritance.

 

[HawkeyeNFO]

I imagine the 5 hour difference to Europe in the other direction would actually help if we have a sleepless night flight to Europe. By 9-10 pm in Lisbon we'll be dead tired even though it would only be 4-5 pm in Raleigh. Hit the sheets for 10 hours and we'll be back to a mostly normal daytime schedule in local time. ......... I guess we'll see how this theory works out in practice....

No. Circadian rhythm doesn't work that way. I'll offer some data points to counter your theory. Just flew from Germany to San Diego, four nights there, then back to Germany. A 4 night, 6 day trip, spanning 9 time zones. And we've traveled DC to Germany with kids twice in the past year (6 time zones).

Every time, the trip sucks. Going is business class certainly makes it bearable, and you'll arrive in Europe in a much clearer state of mind, especially if you depart the US as late as possible. That way you can
actually get some REM sleep on the jet, which is important.

But regardless, your body will need at least 3 days to adjust to a 5 hour time difference, and you won't feel "right" until 5 days after the travel. On day 1 or 2, you'll think you are going strong, and then at 4pm, sitting in a comfy chair will result in an unintended 2-hour nap. And then at 2am in Europe, you'll be wide awake, regardless of what time you went to bed. THAT is jet lag!

 

[BeachOrCity]

Have you considered getting a credit card(s) with a sign-up bonus of miles or points and using those for the busienss class fare? Chase sapphire reserve gets you 100k bonus right now. Perhaps use it to pay for the cruise and the points for the airfare. If you have enough spend you and your SO could each get one and hre points alone would be more than enough.

 

[Moemg]

Have you considered getting a credit card(s) with a sign-up bonus of miles or points and using those for the busienss class fare? Chase sapphire reserve gets you 100k bonus right now. Perhaps use it to pay for the cruise and the points for the airfare. If you have enough spend you and your SO could each get one and hre points alone would be more than enough.

A few months ago I got the Capital one venture card with a 40,000 miles bonus so I have 60,000 miles to put towards this trip . Having the money to pay for the trip is not the issue . It is whether I see the value in spending the money for the upgrade . I got to fire by being pretty cheap all my life so to let go now is hard even though I know I deserve it .I am leaning heavily towards business class especially since my travel days are winding down .

 

[someguy]

A few months ago I got the Capital one venture card with a 40,000 miles bonus so I have 60,000 miles to put towards this trip . Having the money to pay for the trip is not the issue . It is whether I see the value in spending the money for the upgrade . I got to fire by being pretty cheap all my life so to let go now is hard even though I know I deserve it .I am leaning heavily towards business class especially since my travel days are winding down .

For international/TATL type flights, biz rewards often cost twice the miles of economy while biz purchase often costs 3-6 times economy. Your case is tougher since your biz purchase price is probably "only" 2x economy.

 

[W2R]

I am leaning heavily towards business class especially since my travel days are winding down .

Go for it! I know that travel means a lot to you, so this sounds like a good way to spend your discretionary money.

In fact, I'd also suggest a pretty luxurious hotel or hotels, great restaurants, and similar top-of-the-line spending to help make this an amazing trip to remember with joy, for years to come. Since your travel days are winding down, your travel budget will be less in the future and you can afford more spending than usual for this particular trip, to make it the trip of your dreams. Take lots of photos, try not to over-do, and have a wonderful time.