Talk me out of selling everything

Come on, the markets are long. Pension funds are long. This will eventually reverse because it has to. If not, we ALL starve and that won't happen.

Of course I am referring to broad index investing. People who invest only in single stocks and approaching or in retirement? Can't figure out that mindset.
 
come on, the markets are long. Pension funds are long. This will eventually reverse because it has to. If not, we all starve and that won't happen.

Of course i am referring to broad index investing. People who invest only in single stocks and approaching or in retirement? Can't figure out that mindset.

👍👍
 
It's a regular day of business for the U.S. stock market on Monday, October 10, as equity exchanges stay open for Columbus Day, a federal holiday that also has been recognized as Indigenous Peoples' Day.
 
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Come on, the markets are long. Pension funds are long. This will eventually reverse because it has to. If not, we ALL starve and that won't happen.

Of course I am referring to broad index investing. People who invest only in single stocks and

Well I’m down 350k or 14-15% at 64 -self employed and essentially semi retired -with a balanced fund (mostly) PF and a periodic hourly FA who’s essentially suggested no major shift except putting some of my FI intermediate bond funds into ultra-SD and shorter duration bond funds i already have. I would guess his sentiments are pretty similar to those in your reply.. and i trust if he sincerely thought this all wont come back in due time, he’d advise bailing into Cash. It sucks seeing alleged insurance bond funds tanking in tandem with Equities. This- has been my biggest aggravation and ‘disconnect with his - basically- change nothing - mentality. I can only trust that he’s right… 😏
 
We get dramatic short squeezes during bear markets. They look just like this.

Correct. That's exactly what this was...shorts covering. This isn't over....we haven't bottomed. We got out at 4200....down 8% having been in VBIAX (60/40). We're mid-50s with...hoping to retire in 4-5 years. We've had such an amazing run up to the end of 2021, when the market began to fall we didn't want to go for the ride. We're okay missing the big bounce, but can't stomach the horrible ride down again. Katie Stockman from Fairlead has been dead right on the technicals....and has been saying for weeks that 3,815 was a critical level if it fell....it did and has closed below that for two weeks. That takes the market to 3,200 ultimately...but of course, there can be significant bear market rallies along the way. The market *wants* to rally very badly....which really gives us every indication that the Fed will continue to cut....that's obviously a part of the plan...to clear the froth...and wipe out some assets. And that's exactly what will happen. I hate to say it, but for as awful as this may feel...it's going to *feel* worse before it's over. OPECs move this week added the cherry on top....a deeper recession. I don't see any way around it.
 
I retired a little over a year ago, and my husband about a year and a half ago. We are 70/30 and have stayed the course. It is very painful to watch but we are still 100% in Firecalc (which takes SORR into account) so there is that.
 
... Oh, and North Korea is firing missiles over Japan.

Sigh...media click bait headlines again. NK fired a missile over Japan's territorial waters. They did NOT, nor would they dare, to fire any missile over Japan or South Korean landspace.

This was not the first time, and will probably not be the last.

Both countries have the U.S.-mfg anti-ballistic missile defense system. NK is a tissue-paper tiger; their only real defense is that no one wants to invade them. It would be a logistical military nightmare, and there is nothing there anyone wants anyway.

There are legitimate reasons for concern in Asia, but at this point NKorea is not one of them.
 
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There’s stock market data going back more than a century… so your FA is a smart guy [emoji41]… stay the course!

It took the Nazy 17 years to recover after the dot com bust. Markets always come back. The question is do you have the time to wait?
 

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I download my brokerage statements every month, look at the balances with one eye closed and the other one squinted, and file them away until the next month. Stick to the plan.
 
Stay. The. Course.

Sequence. Of. Returns. Risk.

Good seaman adjust their sails to the wind.

If you make investment decisions without any regard to current market risk, you may be sailing into rough waters.
 
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It took the Nazy 17 years to recover after the dot com bust. Markets always come back. The question is do you have the time to wait?

Do I have the time to wait? Depends. Do you have some compelling evidence that that this "recovery" will take 15 years?
 
Do I have the time to wait? Depends. Do you have some compelling evidence that that this "recovery" will take 15 years?

Back at you, do you think it won’t? I know nothing other than I lived through the 17 year recovery.
 
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Sequence. Of. Returns. Risk.

Good seaman adjust their sails to the wind.

If you make investment decisions without any regard to current market risk, you may be sailing into rough waters.

Translation, You can successfully time markets? , If you're confident there's no other alternative than- and that's the only interpretation of the 'adjust sails to the wind' analogy, what form does that take in this case if you're already in, say, a Moderate allocation?; Take major tax losses and go entirely to cash and risk missing a critical cumulative set of significant up days in the market and wind up having to buy high after having sold low -- and realize massive losses?

Not being confrontational, Just trying to understand the logic b/c i know few advisors who've ever suggested busting a long-term plan in response to short term market dynamics would yield better results.
 
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Translation, You can successfully time markets? , If you're confident there's no other alternative than- and that's the only interpretation of the 'adjust sails to the wind' analogy, what form does that take in this case if you're already in, say, a Moderate allocation?; Take major tax losses and go entirely to cash and risk missing a critical cumulative set of significant up days in the market and wind up having to buy high after having sold low -- and realize massive losses?

Not being confrontational, Just trying to understand the logic b/c i know few advisors who've ever suggested busting a long-term plan in response to short term market dynamics would yield better results.

Yea, you’re right. The people who are compensated by you not moving your money, suggest that you leave it where it is.
 
The market very well might go down more. But I just cannot bring myself to recommend selling everything now.

I'd stay invested.

I'd roll taxable I.R.A. money into a Roth, paying the tax with cash outside of retirement funds, now, while the market is down. I'm rolling as much as I can afford to.

Go back to work if you need the money and retire again in a couple years. The market will bounce back, it's just a question of when. When the fed pivots-and they will be that next month, or next year, or in 2024, the markets will surge.

Those are my thoughts, since you asked.
 
Translation, You can successfully time markets? , If you're confident there's no other alternative than- and that's the only interpretation of the 'adjust sails to the wind' analogy, what form does that take in this case if you're already in, say, a Moderate allocation?; Take major tax losses and go entirely to cash and risk missing a critical cumulative set of significant up days in the market and wind up having to buy high after having sold low -- and realize massive losses?

Not being confrontational, Just trying to understand the logic b/c i know few advisors who've ever suggested busting a long-term plan in response to short term market dynamics would yield better results.


I don't know how to time the stock market but I know what happens to bond prices when the Fed says they are going to raise rates 6 - 7 times this year.
 
It is a tough choice and a lot of people disagree on where the market is heading.

Personally, my PhD was in Immunology studying non-linear non-parametric data and I was forced to develop my own set of equations to analyze experimental data. The other 2 areas that perform the same types of analysis are 1) the weather and 2) the stock market. I diverge from the subject to explain how my sense of what is "normal" and what is not is defined by my professional history. When I was doing my PhD at an Ivy League school I went to the Statistics Department to discuss my problems analyzing my data (fever measured by surgically implanted data loggers in dogs following tick bites with Lyme disease) and encountered a weird thing. All the people with PhD's in this area had left academia and were all working in Wall Street hence why I had to develop new and innovative ways to analyze this kind of data which resulted in my obtaining my PhD. At the time I wasn't interested whatsoever in the stock market (or the weather although I am a commercial pilot) but rather in analyzing pathogenesis in animals exposed to high-consequence pathogens.

My point is that when I married my third wife who is in the stock market as a Day Trader (quite successful by the way) I took it upon myself to model the market data to help her. She has a PhD in Physics so quite capable on her own and I am a dilatant in this area. Interestingly, I found the stock market to be completely unnatural and not follow any predictable models meaning it is completely manipulated thus incapable of modeling unless you know the exact decision process that the manipulators are using. This is my area and I know what I am talking about. However, knowing this also lets you piggyback on the bog boy traders such as market makers, etc., and cheat as they do. My wife focuses on specific stocks and follows the trades in finite detail and gets out early settling on roughly 1-2% gains every time. This is because it is impossible to know when they have gained enough and get out quick. They are using algorithmic trading which operates beneath the normal system and far faster than any human can. Anyway, after small gains, we get out and then look for the next opportunity. Rinse and repeat. The goal is roughly $1,000 a day and call it quits for the day. Usually, this is a couple of hours. Sometimes we have gotten trapped and have to wait it out and a couple of times it was months. But, we never trade with more than 30% of assets so can handle small losses. This has been successful but we also see enormous chaos and when it begins and go to 100% cash. We did this in January 2020 and again in February 2022. We haven't lost a cent since but did miss out on some wild swings and some obvious gains. However, the risk is very high now.

What I have realized is the massive manipulation and cheating on the markets is sustained by the US debt which is massively out of control. The DOW, as an example, is way above where it would naturally be and as the capitalistic system demands a correction MUST occur. There is a huge disparity in the economy supported only by continued infusions of fiat money which has in the past been sustained by the reserve currency status. These days are slowly disappearing due to actions by the US government which impacts foreign currency transactions that are slowly moving away from trades in dollars and even using the SWIFT system altogether. Capitalistic systems need corrections which roughly occur every 7 years. Actions by the Fed (pumping in huge amounts) have interceded on these corrections which now have been circumvented twice. The corrections must occur to return the system to a sort of stability so now we have 3 corrections coming, the first 2 which were circumvented and the third that needs to happen now. The DOW needs to return to its natural place which is roughly 18,000. Yes, the Fed will intervene again but every time it happens the pain will be worse further down the line. The dollar is still being used as a reserve currency and there is perhaps enough use to still support it a third time. However, some unpredictable (by us) black swan event like China dumping their dollars, blowing up the Turkish stream pipeline, nuclear war, etc. will cause a major swing away from the dollar if the US is perceived to be the culprit and thus unreliable. The de-dollarization is happening slowly anyway but this would accelerate it perhaps dramatically. No one outside the US wanted this to happen but here we are. What happens next is the big question.

My point to all of this is betting on US equities is a very risky thing now. So, diversification is the key. Land, gold, diamonds, US equities, and foreign equities, are a smart move but not very liquid and perhaps not liquid enough to provide an income. We are sitting on a ton of cash, have land, and no equities so are equally exposed. My wife is resistant to moving assets into things she has no experience working with so we are hopeful things will stabilize and the dollar remains strong. I am less confident but we are also old now so for us it really is a matter of making it another 10 or so years and we have plenty of cash to live on and a large place to live on which I am now making off the grid completely.

A serious change to the US political system could make a huge difference and restore confidence in the dollar. Until then I am very concerned about where we are headed.
 
Ok.. so as i interpret the commentary of the lasr few posts one ahould take the losses in short term bond funds - that are producing dividend income and go - where? Cash?

And broadly diversified equity funds — the orher half of a 50/50 pf… take tbe YTD losses in those too? Ok - so.. also to Cash with those— Yeah, everythings down 15%… So what is this, a bottomless endless bear market?

What makes up for the dividend income and tax loss
consequences
 
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My point is that when I married my third wife who is in the stock market as a Day Trader (quite successful by the way) I took it upon myself to model the market data to help her. Anyway, after small gains, we get out and then look for the next opportunity. Rinse and repeat. The goal is roughly $1,000 a day and call it quits for the day.

So she supposedly makes $250k per year daytrading this manipulation? How big is the account? If it is $500k that's damn impressive, if it is $5M she would be better off in an index fund. I have heard lots of people say the market is going to collapse since the 70's, and some have even been right. I guess I like the manipulation since the stock market is obviously biased upward and has made me rich. Kind of like being the house in Vegas. YMMV
 
I am 59, retired for two years. My cash pays me almost 3% at Fidelity right now. Add to it two bond ladders that throw off close to $150,000 in income, a lot of which is tax free. My equities sit at 11% of my allocation. I sold early and often this past year because capital preservation and current income are my biggest goals. The SORR monster is real.
I’ll return to a higher equity allocation at some point, but first I need to see an end in rising rates and we need a VIX above 40 as a signal. No bear has bottomed without a 40 or higher VIX.
 
Back at you, do you think it won’t? I know nothing other than I lived through the 17 year recovery.

If you are all in on the NAZY, you may deserve a 17 year wait- concentrated bets are risky business. "Stay the course" is meant for a diversified portfolio of stocks(US and Foreign) and bonds. If there is no risk, there is no reward.
 
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