Terrible North Miami Beach condo collapse

[Music Lover]

Regardless of the cause(s) of this particular collapse, sea levels are rising. According to this Yale article from last year, a 5 to 6 foot sea level rise by 2100 is likely and would render a large part of Miami uninhabitable. Ten percent of Miami wold be underwater with a 2 foot rise.

Please leave climate change out of this. That article is worst case fear mongering and doesn't belong here.

 

[Nick12]

Wow! Yeah, that special assessment would not have gone over well with homeowners had the Board tried to implement it. Hindsight is 20/20 of course.

Condo owners will have a come to reality check on the following. If they want structural defects to be fixed, get ready to pay for it with an increase in monthly fees or pay in full. Some will say why wasn't it fixed, but it is the condo owners that need to step and pay for the repairs / improvements.

 

[omni550]

Former maintenance manager at collapsed Miami condo building says its basement would flood with 2ft of high tide seawater EVERY MONTH - and the pumps couldn't keep up

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ance-manager-says-basement-flooded-month.html

This^ might prove to be a major contributor to the rusting and spalling columns in the below-grade parking lot.

Once the columns weaken sufficiently, it's only a matter of time before failure becomes inevitable....unless expedient action is taken to do whatever is required to maintain their structural integrity.

omni

 

[jollystomper]

YEARS ago, I was riding on a city bus and we were waiting to enter a major artery. The car in front started out and the bus followed. The car "chickened out", slammed on his brakes and the bus (literally) tapped the car's rear bumper. As far as I could tell, this huge bus didn't even damage the car. The bus driver came around with a clip board and took everyone's name/address. I asked why. The driver said, "You'd be surprised how often folks on a sidewalk rush a bus after an incident. They want to get what ever settlement they might qualify for." Talk about crass. YMMV

One of my sisters was an attorney for the transit organization of a major city. She told me once that an out of service bus with no passengers was rammed by a truck in stop-and-go traffic. The bus driver got out of the bus to check the damage. But he left the doors open. When he returned to the bus, there were close to a dozen folks lying on the bus floor, claiming to have whiplash and other injuries from the accident.

It is just sad what some folks focus on in the early stages of a tragedy like this... the "never let a good crisis go to waste" mentality taken to the extreme.

 

[Dash man]

Condo owners will have a come to reality check on the following. If they want structural defects to be fixed, get ready to pay for it with an increase in monthly fees or pay in full. Some will say why wasn't it fixed, but it is the condo owners that need to step and pay for the repairs / improvements.

Our (1971 building) condo association recently took out a loan to pay for the needed repairs and we are each paying an additional $1,000/qtr. I suspect our insurance costs will still rise significantly.

 

[Chuckanut]

I know little about Miami condo buildings. But, I am wondering if they should be permitted so close to the shoreline. It seems they are very vulnerable to problems caused by water and salt, both of which are in ample supply hear the ocean.

Of course, I used to live in So Cal where expensive homes in the hills were built in steep, wind funnel canyons filled with vegetation that routinely dried out by July and often burned a month or two later. No way the fire fighters can save most of these places when a 30 mph wind blows the fire down the canyon towards their homes.

 

[MichaelB]

I know little about Miami condo buildings. But, I am wondering if they should be permitted so close to the shoreline. It seems they are very vulnerable to problems caused by water and salt, both of which are in ample supply hear the ocean.

A bit late for that.

 

[Amethyst]

Hey, don't pick on Miami. All around the U.S., and the rest of the world, people are living on the ocean.

All are probably a bit nervous right now, but it will pass. And they'll go right on pushing back over every special assessment for repairs.

I know little about Miami condo buildings. But, I am wondering if they should be permitted so close to the shoreline. It seems they are very vulnerable to problems caused by water and salt, both of which are in ample supply hear the ocean.

.

 

[Chuckanut]

A bit late for that.

True, but maybe instead of rebuilding, the county could buy the land and make it a park.

I used to work in a town that has a river flowing through it. After decades of flooded houses, the city bought the last few standing and turned the area into a somewhat undeveloped river front park. Feeding the ducks, launching float tubes, and fishing were the main activities. It still floods, but all that does is put a few picnic tables under water. The block house style restrooms seem to handle the flooding very well.

Just an idea from a guy who has spent less than a week of time Florida, and most of that was inside a hotel in Orlando .

 

[Chuckanut]

Hey, don't pick on Miami. All around the U.S., and the rest of the world, people are living on the ocean.

I don't mean to pick on Miami.I owe a lot to that city. One of my favorite breakfasts from a local place is called Moons over My-Hamy. It's very good.

 

[Koolau]

I know little about Miami condo buildings. But, I am wondering if they should be permitted so close to the shoreline. It seems they are very vulnerable to problems caused by water and salt, both of which are in ample supply hear the ocean.

Of course, I used to live in So Cal where expensive homes in the hills were built in steep, wind funnel canyons filled with vegetation that routinely dried out by July and often burned a month or two later. No way the fire fighters can save most of these places when a 30 mph wind blows the fire down the canyon towards their homes.

I think it's probably the same in all the desirable locations: There are folks wishing to crowd into any available space and enjoy their little piece of Paradise.

Here, in addition to spalling, we have the occasional boulder rolling down a hill and crashing through someone's bedroom or living room. Supposedly, the hills have been "certified" as stable at one time, but you never know.

Back when we lived Windward, we awoke one morning and noticed a huge bare spot had opened up on the steep and otherwise green mountains that towered a mile inland from us. A whole section of mountain had simply sheared off after millennia of rain had weakened the volcanic rock. Good news is that building of houses close to the Ko'olaus - especially Windward is not allowed in most places. No one was damaged/hurt. BUT, it just shows you that nature is NOT your friend. Much as We love HER, SHE is at best ambivalent toward us. Other times, she is downright nasty. You coexist with nature at your peril though YMMV.

 

[ncbill]

YEARS ago, I was riding on a city bus and we were waiting to enter a major artery. The car in front started out and the bus followed. The car "chickened out", slammed on his brakes and the bus (literally) tapped the car's rear bumper. As far as I could tell, this huge bus didn't even damage the car. The bus driver came around with a clip board and took everyone's name/address. I asked why. The driver said, "You'd be surprised how often folks on a sidewalk rush a bus after an incident. They want to get what ever settlement they might qualify for." Talk about crass. YMMV

Years ago here in my state there was a middle-of-the-night train derailment in a small town...close enough & you suffocated in your sleep from the chemicals released, others were left with lung damage, plus property damage, etc.

IIRC, the state attorney general's office ended up prosecuting several individuals who after-the-fact had changed the address on their driver's license to correspond to the affected area.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Please leave climate change out of this. That article is worst case fear mongering and doesn't belong here.

You might want to Google terms like "Miami condo climate change"or "surfside condo climate change" and take a gander at all the news articles on the topic. The news media and interviews with experts on building failures are not leaving climate change out of the possible reasons for the collapse.

' Surfside condo "climate change" ' returns over 2M results in Google, including a recent article from the Miami Herald.

Could the increasing assault of king tides and sea level rise have contributed to Miami condo collapse? (Palm Beach Post / msn.com)

Sea level rise due to climate change eyed as contributing factor in Miami-area building collapse (yahoo.com)


The Miami-Dade County government web site has a whole plan on adapting to climate change, "By 2040, sea levels are expected to be 10 to 17 inches higher than 2000 levels. Miami-Dade County's 3-D sea level rise viewer allows planners and residents to view buildings that could be affected by one to six feet of sea level rise." - Sea Level Rise and Flooding (miamidade.gov).

 

[Brat]

The building was built 40 years ago, what are the chances that the suppliers and builders are still around?

That and the statute of limitations.

 

[JustCurious]

That and the statute of limitations.

The statute of limitations may not bar such a lawsuit because the alleged negligence or wrongful conduct would not have been apparent until now. At least that would be the argument advanced by the plaintiff's attorney.

 

[Brat]

The conditions were evidently observable for years. The fact that the condo association took no action to identify the cause will impact the tolling of the statute.

 

[audreyh1]

Gosh, so many people still missing! I guess it’s going to take a long time to recover trapped bodies. Horrible!

 

[Dtail]

Truly terrible.
I am guessing that there will be widespread changes as to requirements in the future, much like the changes necessitated due to Hurricane Andrew.

 

[youbet]

The building was built 40 years ago, what are the chances that the suppliers and builders are still around?

^^^^ This.

And scale is an important factor too. For example, my house is a bit over 40 years old. We had it built, semi-custom. I can't imagine that if today something went horribly wrong with the house causing a few deaths, that there could possibly be any recourse back to the builder. Too much time has passed and we're "small potatoes."

 

[youbet]

The conditions were evidently observable for years. The fact that the condo association took no action to identify the cause will impact the tolling of the statute.

I'm sure no expert on condo R and R's, but if the association took no action, isn't that the same as the owners taking no action? That is, the owners were made aware of some dicey issues with their building and, through their own elected representatives, made the decision to not act. The time to go after the builder, suppliers, etc., was when the issues were documented by the inspector. Apparently the owners didn't think so.

 

[Koolau]

^^^^ This.

And scale is an important factor too. For example, my house is a bit over 40 years old. We had it built, semi-custom. I can't imagine that if today something went horribly wrong with the house causing a few deaths, that there could possibly be any recourse back to the builder. Too much time has passed and we're "small potatoes."

Lots of folks to sue. SWAG: None (not even all put together) will have enough money (even through their respective insurance companies) to cover the suits of perhaps 100 families and another 100 individuals. As usual, the deep pockets will be hit the hardest and the "small fry" will likely be wiped out (bankruptcy). BUT there still won't be enough to pay everyone what they will want as compensation.

It's kind of too bad that it works out this way. Lots of innocent folks have been hurt, killed, lost loved ones, lost property, etc. I just don't think there will be enough money to go around - no matter how many folks are named in the suits. No expert here. Just doing back-of-the-envelope math. A couple of hundred law suits (if not more) at a million to 20 million. There just isn't that much money among the "defendants." YMMV

 

[Nick12]

The conditions were evidently observable for years. The fact that the condo association took no action to identify the cause will impact the tolling of the statute.

There was a local resident walking his dog and he was the first at the scene of the collapse. He saw fingers sticking out of the rubble . He then with the help of a police officer pulled a 15 year old boy out. I was hoping more stories like that but it is dwindling as the week goes on.

 

[youbet]

Lots of folks to sue.

Really? We'll see I guess. Finding evidence that someone is liable, or even a significant contributor, may be more challenging than expected. The biggest thing, IMHO, that the plaintiffs will have going for them is the fact that the case will likely have a huge public following and be well covered by the media for years to come. That usually results in the "someone gotta pay" factor coming into play.

I'm extremely sympathetic to the victims of this tragedy and their families and friends. At the same time, I'm pragmatic. Every year in the USA, tens of thousands of people are killed or maimed by folks with no resources or insurance so there is never any meaningful compensation.

I think we're saying about the same thing. You feel there will be lots of people to sue but, regardless, there won't be enough money to go around. I agree that there will not be enough money to go around and additionally that a partial reason for that is because finding liable parties to shake down will not be easy.

Do you think the payer of last resort, that guy with the ultimate deep pockets, "Uncle Sam," might make an appearance?

 

[NW-Bound]

The media has reported that many people, tenants as well as contractors and maintenance workers at the building, had seen the building underground garage flooded numerous times.

The roof of the underground garage also had serious cracks, such that water from the deck above seeped through. The photos taken by the inspection done in 2018 purportedly showed stalactites of a few inches growing down from the garage ceiling. Tenants complained of water dropping on their parked cars.

All the above sounded awful. I guess people just played the "See-Hear-Speak No Evil" monkeys.

 

[Nick12]

The families of the missing and killed are beyond angry according to some media reports. The lawyers are probably lining up already.