The future of car ownership, monthly subscriptions for basic features?

ShokWaveRider said:
Us too, we do not even use XM during the free period. Local PBS and Beach radio is great where we are. folks are lured in with the puppy dog free periods and "Think" they need the subs. We have managed to get on just fine in the last 15 years with none, we still get to watch the latest shows and movies with no issue.
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I love my puppy. It is my one subscription guilty pleasure in life.

For those who want to pay the puppy tax, there's a great discussion on LBYMing the puppy cost on bogleheads:

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=198331

BTW: the one thing I like about XM is they have hockey talk. It is hard to find good hockey talk in the USA. XM has it. YMMV and I understand why people don't like XM and that's fine.
 
At least some 1960s/70s vehicles can have TBI bolted-on to replace the carburetor & add a aftermarket electronic ignition to bypass points/condenser.

As long as you don't care about fuel economy. :)

My 1990s vehicles are much simpler compared to anything made today.

Just spent $1,500 on one to have every wear item (gaskets, water pump/timing belt/oil pump) in the engine replaced plus most of the original hoses.
 
The article is misleading - it does say if you want a LIFETIME subscription of the heated seats, you pay 350 pounds or somethin :)
 
EastWest Gal said:
Anyone using the internet to post here has a subscription of some sort.

But a subscription for heated seats? Who needs heated seats year-round? Who would pay an annual fee for a luxury they use 2-3 months out of the year?
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Remember, most if not all of us on this site are frugal. We want to retire early or already have so our group think this car business model stinks. But there will be a big segment of society that will accept it and pay. Whether the model is successful remains to be seen. I suspect not but it represents change that may come slowly.
 
Gkk2001 said:
Remember, most if not all of us on this site are frugal. We want to retire early or already have so our group think this car business model stinks. But there will be a big segment of society that will accept it and pay. Whether the model is successful remains to be seen. I suspect not but it represents change that may come slowly.
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If it proves viable heated seats are just the start. Expect it for navigation, air conditioning, entertainment system, remote start, etc., etc., etc...
 
Music Lover said:
If it proves viable heated seats are just the start. Expect it for navigation, air conditioning, entertainment system, remote start, etc., etc., etc...
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Eventually, all those padded on subscriptions turn onto a "lease" of the whole vehicle.
 
Gkk2001 said:
Remember, most if not all of us on this site are frugal. We want to retire early or already have so our group think this car business model stinks. But there will be a big segment of society that will accept it and pay. Whether the model is successful remains to be seen. I suspect not but it represents change that may come slowly.
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Who paid for TV in 1960, 70, 80, 90 ... today? You have a good point.
 
If it's within your budget, buy a Tesla!

Free YouTube and Twitter views of @ElonMusk posts
 
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Indeed it's underway

I can say firsthand - as of a few years ago other OEMs were already licking chops at subscriptions. It takes time. They are skillfully shrinking the dealer network (remember how people don't want evil dealers? Less competition? lol - I think this product shortage is a nice appetizer of how things will eventually be but I digress)...anyways, OEMs were sending in little 22 year old ladies to 'show' dealers and staff how to "coach" customers to subscribe to this or that. Art first it was Onstar. Then XM. Then some other stuff. THEN - OEMs started to tie in dealer incentive programs (vital to finances of most dealers now) so they had no choice so instead of trying to give a better customer experience - it was all about "make them press the blue button for Onstar!!!". More and more dealerships are bought up by larger chains - hence they enjoy economies of scale and pricing power -(I've helped with this, I'm not just guessing) - - so pricing, doc fees, labor rates slowly tick up - and less independent dealers, replaced by larger entities making more money - - are more compliant to do what the OEMs tell them to do.

GM is salivating to become a big time subscription company. They'll get there because many other OEMs will be doing it. Some OEMs will execute it well, others will be slow and clumsy with it.

But in the end - someone is going to make more money.

Someone is gonna pay more money - - those somebodies wanted things lot be that way. In the long term - they'll get their wish. Full Price is a Fair Price...plus plus plus. Wall Street likes return on investment.
 
rk911 said:
we've had cable tv since the mid 70's. :greetings10:
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Yep, that's my point.

In 1960, nobody paid.

In the 70s, it started creeping in. You were an early adopter.

In the 80s, availability was still sketchy, but rapidly improving.

By 1990, the majority was paying.

Further stuff on my TV analogy. Before widespread cable TV adoption, the networks were programmed differently. For example, there were more "Made for TV" movies. Many of dubious quality, but some of good quality too. There were ground breaking mini-series like "Roots". You didn't need cable for stuff like that.

After cable was widely adopted, the movies went to cable only, and so did the mini-series.

This will happen with automobile features. What was once standard will be taken away.

And then in the far future, your automobile will just be a big reality series live-streaming everything you do. Just like cable has devolved to nothing but reality TV. :LOL: You'll be able to tune into "JoeWras TV" and watch me eat a taco while the car self drives. Then you can hear me swear about how the radio won't turn up past 3 because I didn't pay the "radio volume subscription" this month.
 
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JoeWras said:
Who paid for TV in 1960, 70, 80, 90 ... today? You have a good point.
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I pirate many TV show using an antenna. It's called FREE TV and never went away. DVRs are a great invention if you can get a descent signal. I also watch series by getting the DVDs from the library. Even thought I have to wait a year, the actors, plots and outcomes are the same. Most series age very well.

Never had cable, though I do have streaming. I only stream Netflix, Prime, and 99¢ Hulu. I am planning to go down to two services when the HULU deal expires. WHU KNU HULU had so many commercials for a paid service?
 
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Chuckanut said:
Never had cable, though I do have streaming. I only stream Netflix, Prime, and 99¢ Hulu. I am planning to go down to two services when the HULU deal expires. WHU KNU HULU had so many commercials for a paid service?
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Ah, I remember when cable didn't have commercials because after all it was "Pay TV". Boy, did that change. Now I can't believe the long commercial stretches when I watch cable in a hotel room.

One thought on the car features: there are many features I like but cars bought off the lot are all "loaded"- too many things I don't want that add to the price and increase the number of things that can go wrong. If you gave me a choice, I would NOT want heated seats, collision avoidance, cruise control, expensive-to-replace key fobs, on-board navigation (Waze and a good stand-alone GPS are enough) and Sirius XM. It might be nice to be able to "de-select" the frills and save money although I know that the cost of the features I don't want will be built in anyway.
 
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I intentionally chose my Free-TV analogy to get people agitated. :cool:

In the future we'll have people relaying to the rest of us how they use the car in default mode: only achieves 95% of the speed limit, A/C operates only in the range 78F to 82F, no lunches provided by the replicator (you have to bring your own) and so on. But it gets you there!

The other half will be gushing about how they got there faster because they bought "overspeed" and they didn't bother bringing lunch because they lounged in the back seat eating it from the replicator. All this while enjoying the cool 72F on a hot day. Take that you subscription avoiders!
 
FIREarly said:
If it's within your budget, buy a Tesla!

Free YouTube and Twitter views of @ElonMusk posts
Click to expand...
Can a tesla be remotely unlocked without an app? Like using a fob? Or be unlocked with an archaic device: a mechanical key?
 
MichealKnight said:
I can say firsthand - as of a few years ago other OEMs were already licking chops at subscriptions. It takes time. They are skillfully shrinking the dealer network (remember how people don't want evil dealers? Less competition? lol - I think this product shortage is a nice appetizer of how things will eventually be but I digress)...anyways, OEMs were sending in little 22 year old ladies to 'show' dealers and staff how to "coach" customers to subscribe to this or that. Art first it was Onstar. Then XM. Then some other stuff. THEN - OEMs started to tie in dealer incentive programs (vital to finances of most dealers now) so they had no choice so instead of trying to give a better customer experience - it was all about "make them press the blue button for Onstar!!!". More and more dealerships are bought up by larger chains - hence they enjoy economies of scale and pricing power -(I've helped with this, I'm not just guessing) - - so pricing, doc fees, labor rates slowly tick up - and less independent dealers, replaced by larger entities making more money - - are more compliant to do what the OEMs tell them to do.

GM is salivating to become a big time subscription company. They'll get there because many other OEMs will be doing it. Some OEMs will execute it well, others will be slow and clumsy with it.

But in the end - someone is going to make more money.

Someone is gonna pay more money - - those somebodies wanted things lot be that way. In the long term - they'll get their wish. Full Price is a Fair Price...plus plus plus. Wall Street likes return on investment.
Click to expand...

I don't think it will be too long (relatively speaking) that it will simply be too cost prohibitive to own a car, so it will be a subscription service or outright "car service"...basically everyone will have to use an Uber like service.

Personally, I am pretty happy with my 10 year old Honda Accord. I paid about 10K for it a couple of years ago and it has only gained value. since With less than 100K on the odometer and me putting only a couple thousand on it a year, I think it will be around for several more years. Plus the insurance/registration costs me a little over $300 a year...it's the best "appliance" I have bought in a while.
 
athena53 said:
One thought on the car features: there are many features I like but cars bought off the lot are all "loaded"- too many things I don't want that add to the price and increase the number of things that can go wrong. If you gave me a choice, I would NOT want heated seats, collision avoidance, cruise control, expensive-to-replace key fobs, on-board navigation (Waze and a good stand-alone GPS are enough) and Sirius XM. It might be nice to be able to "de-select" the frills and save money although I know that the cost of the features I don't want will be built in anyway.
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This is by design. My 2018 F-150 had all sorts of "frills" that were installed but were not sold in the package and this not active or available for use. However, a little software hack (thanks to Russian programmers!) I was able to activate many of these options. It's cost effective for a manufacturer to install components across most vehicles and then make it an option...where they need only to hook up a laptop and change a few 0s to 1s and viola...option enabled!
 
FIREarly said:
If it's within your budget, buy a Tesla!

Free YouTube and Twitter views of @ElonMusk posts
Click to expand...

it is but no, thanks. the current electric grid seems not to be able to keep up with the heat wave in the southwest much less provide energy to recharge millions of electric vehicles. beyond that I just want to get from point A to point B and our old gassers do just fine. and, if we keep our motorhome, we wouldn't be able to flat tow an EV behind it. so, no, thanks.
 
ExFlyBoy5 said:
I don't think it will be too long (relatively speaking) that it will simply be too cost prohibitive to own a car, so it will be a subscription service or outright "car service"...basically everyone will have to use an Uber like service.
Click to expand...

Especially if full self driving ever gets finished (umm...) and we can have pools of cars sent out on request. That will be a real societal sea change tho, think about all the parking lots you won't need etc.

Saw a report this week that said the avg. car payment now is $712?!?!? That was a freakin' mortgage payment not long ago.
 
GTFan said:
Saw a report this week that said the avg. car payment now is $712?!?!? That was a freakin' mortgage payment not long ago.
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I saw that, too- and the average new car cost is $47,000. I bought my Honda Civic 2 years ago for $20K (yes, I know I'd probably pay a surcharge now) but people gotta have a truck or an SUV even if they have an office job and a boring sedan would do just fine. It gets worse when these longer-term loans (6 or 7 years :eek:) mean people are underwater longer and sometimes fold the unpaid balance into a loan on a new vehicle.

Mary Barra, GM CEO, told Jim Cramer a week or so ago that the truck is "the modern-day luxury sedan". Maybe other people have an extra $20K to throw away on more car than they need. I don't.

Closer to the OT- interesting to note that there's probably a lot of stuff already built in that isn't activated in my car. The dealer signed me up for junk e-mails from Sirius offering me a free trial- my car isn't equipped for Sirius and I'd have to buy extra electronics to get it. When my car was in the shop for repair (sideswiped in the middle of the night while parked at DS and DDIL's) the loaner, another brand, had Apple Car Play and I really liked the interface with my phone. Yeah, I think I can get that "installed" for a price, too.

I need a Russian hacker. :D
 
If they are really not including the cost of the feature in the base price of producing the car than what is the harm. Ultimately including all those features in base production should generate an economy of scale.

My car came with satellite radio and after a 3 month free trial I will as asked you choose if I wanted to sign up. I chose not. 2 years later found myself making long drives away from cities and was happy to sign up and have good radio. Same I suppose would apply for heated seats. If you bought a car in Texas and as some point move to Maine. Heated seats are a total luxury but in deep winter equally a joy. Many such comforts may apply (navigation system, 4 wheel drive, rain sensing wipers etc). Things you may not spring for on your new car but would cost more if they had to produce your car to order than to just include it and charge you to turn it on.

Clever marketing and manufacturing actually provided it first just increase the price for everyone
 
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