Thoughts on TESLA

[Chuckanut]

I recall early on when a Chevrolet Volt caught fire. All the ignorant (not knowing/admitting) people came up with great exclamations until they learned the statistics of how many gas cars catch fire each DAY!! Haha

The 'A Tesla caught fire' argument reminds me of the fuss when Mr. Musk took one puff of a joint on that interview show. (Granted a silly thing to do.) It lasted maybe 30 seconds in well over an hour of content. Yet that is all that is focused on.

Ignore the big picture, focus on the negative detail. Based upon that standard we would still be riding horses and shoveling manure every day. Well, maybe some of us might have a bicycle. But, bikes get flat tires don't they? Keep the horse and keep shoveling.

FWIW, I drive a hybrid, and don't own an EV or directly own stock in any EV maker. I have no plans to do either. I do eat the popcorn.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

I recall early on when a Chevrolet Volt caught fire. All the ignorant (not knowing/admitting) people came up with great exclamations until they learned the statistics of how many gas cars catch fire each DAY!! Haha

Total number of reported highway vehicle fires in the U.S.

The ignorant people were walking the planet yesterday, today, and will continue to do so tomorrow. I let them exist in their close minded world. Plus the forum is one based on retirement, so its populated by a lot of older folks that are set in their ways and are slower to adjust to change.

I'll just keep collecting my tax credits and driving these amazing cars. Let them keep going to the gas stations.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

I just read about a priest getting assaulted at a gas station in Seattle. Perhaps gas stations are lovely places in other parts of the country, but you can pretty much count on a degenerate or two at the CA ones I used to have to go to.

 

[bobandsherry]

From an investors view, earnings released today after market closes. The question will be how much the loss will be. As Musk already came forward to give warning that quarter won't be profitable, could be this quarter is just a complete disaster. At least if it was my call, I'd toss all costs into this quarter and defer revenues as much as legally possible since a loss is already expected. That would then help next quarters. Guess we'll see...

 

[ls99]

One could ask the same question of the '85 Pontiac that leaked gas from around the carburetor. Or the two ICE engine cars a former co-worker had go up in flames for no apparent reason. Or the ICE delivery van that smoked up a local street last week when it caught fire.

In all four cases, nothing is proven one way or the other.

Is it so hard to realize we have to look at the total big picture?

Not at all hard to look at and see the big picture. I am sure electric vehicles will continue to be made and made safe. The debate about their environmental impact will also continue, especially of battery components sourcing, mining and disposal, cradle to grave.



Tesla is touted by Elon and fans as the safest most environmentally correct car. Extraordinary claim. Thus when the same car re-ignites after many weeks and a tesla engineer's assurance that it is now safe by removing battery fuse, even if already partially burned, is very noteworthy.


Though I am sure this event will be examined in minute detail and hopefully learned from. Not sure if any findings can be applied to the masses of already made cars.

 

[Chuckanut]

Tesla is touted by Elon and fans as the safest most environmentally correct car. Extraordinary claim. Thus when the same car re-ignites after many weeks and a tesla engineer's assurance that it is now safe by removing battery fuse, even if already partially burned, is very noteworthy.

Noteworthy, yes. Indicative of overall vehicle safety compared to ICE cars? Nope. Let's see stats on car fires, car deaths, car injuries of EV's versus ICE. Several years worth at least. Adjusted for con-founders like age, region, etc.

 

[Running_Man]

From an investors view, earnings released today after market closes. The question will be how much the loss will be. As Musk already came forward to give warning that quarter won't be profitable, could be this quarter is just a complete disaster. At least if it was my call, I'd toss all costs into this quarter and defer revenues as much as legally possible since a loss is already expected. That would then help next quarters. Guess we'll see...

Huh? Earnings released next week

 

[ncbill]

Have you considered that ICE that catch fire are older cars? Have any stats that compare 3-5 year old cars and relative # of fires per 100k? Also difference is once Tesla battery burns seems its nearly impossible to extinguish vs ICE. But I get your point.

IIRC, Kia & Hyundai are being sued over fires in recent model vehicles.

 

[eroscott]

IIRC, Kia & Hyundai are being sued over fires in recent model vehicles.

In some pretty big numbers too.

 

[kcowan]

Canada introduces rebates for EVs

Excludes all Teslas.

 

[gerntz]

^ Gifts to the well off.

 

[JoeWras]

Canada introduces rebates for EVs

Excludes all Teslas.

Way to go Canada. Something has to be done to incentivize EVs for the masses.

 

[calmloki]

Was thinking about maybe getting into a Tesla-esque vehicle as it might be a bit more road-attentive than I as time goes by. We are about to do the 1100 mile trip back to Oregon for the summer and I'm not really looking forward to it. A Tesla chauffeur might be a good thing. Wondered if the auto-drive allows a degree of pre-set speeding or if it follows posted speed limits perfectly.

 

[ERD50]

... Something has to be done to incentivize EVs for the masses.

Why?

-ERD50

 

[JoeWras]

Why?

-ERD50

I left off: "versus the chosen elites."

On the reply, I had actually written up a whole diatribe about an executive who took over a meeting and spent 1/2 hour gloating about his $100k Tesla. What a boor.

I got off track. I'm still on the fence regarding EVs. But IF they are going to be encouraged (and the political winds are forcing it that way), let's start with everyone instead of just elites.

As of this writing I'm still an ignorant, close minded ICE owner: so what do I know anyway?

 

[Chuckanut]

A bit off topic, but I have recently returned from Europe and noticed a significant increase in the number of hybrid vehicles on the road, and being advertised by makers such as Toyota.

According to one taxi driver I spoke with (he was using a Prius) the diesel engine is moving out of favor as the fuel economy vehicle of choice. Between the particulate emissions of the older vehicles and the recent VW diesel emission scandal, the hybrid is winning converts as the way to go to get high mileage in an automobile.

From what I can tell the big problem with owning a 100% EV car in the crowded European cities is that lack of places to charge them. Most peolpe live in an apartment and park their car on the street or in a very crowded lot owned by the apartment bldg. There is no practical way to charge them overnight in one's garage.

This is just one experience of one visitor. Take what you wish and leave the rest.

 

[braumeister]

From what I can tell the big problem with owning a 100% EV car in the crowded European cities is that lack of places to charge them. Most peolpe live in an apartment and park their car on the street or in a very crowded lot owned by the apartment bldg. There is no practical way to charge them overnight in one's garage.

Certainly true, and not just Europe.

But I was mildly surprised within the last year to see quite a few cars plugged into charging stanchions along sidewalks in residential neighborhoods. This was while walking through Amsterdam, Stockholm, and Oslo. They didn't appear to be the kind where you pay by the minute but simple free plug-in stations. So it's definitely catching on, although there is a very long way to go yet.

 

[ERD50]

I left off: "versus the chosen elites."...

Gotcha. While I don't see any reason for subsidies at all, I'd at least feel better if they only applied to lower priced cars - subsidizing some rich guy's luxury car is just offensive to many of us.

Same with solar panels - mostly only well off people can afford them, why should the rest of us pay so they can brag about their low electric bill?

If the goal is more 'green' solar panels (a far better case can be made for solar panels than for EVs), then let the utility install them at a commercial scale - we will get more kWh for the $, more environmental benefit for the $, and everyone can share in payback.

-ERD50

 

[JoeWras]

If the goal is more 'green' solar panels (a far better case can be made for solar panels than for EVs), then let the utility install them at a commercial scale - we will get more kWh for the $, more environmental benefit for the $, and everyone can share in payback.

I'd like to see the incentive emphasis on panels first. These would then feed into the infra for EVs, because right now, most of those EVs are ultimately running on fossil fuels anyway.

How about a progressive incentive based on price or evaluation? I.E. for panels, give a high incentive on lower evaluated homes, and a phase out for the mega-mansions?

Ditto the EVs. Maybe a sliding reverse scale that starts at $20k and phases out at $100k.

I personally like the carrot approach if the govt. is involved. I suspect the stick will happen instead, that is some sort of penalty tax for ICE. In the USA, the only sticking point for that is those taxes are state by state so nationally, it may not happen, although they wrangled it to force 55mph speed limit years ago.

 

[Running_Man]

And four of the board of directors of Tesla announced they are going to be stepping down.

 

[Ready]

Gotcha. While I don't see any reason for subsidies at all, I'd at least feel better if they only applied to lower priced cars - subsidizing some rich guy's luxury car is just offensive to many of us.
-ERD50

They could put a cap on the purchase price like Canada is about to do. But I see a lot of people posting on the TMC forum that they just bought a $35K Model 3 with no options. I don't think a $35K purchase is exclusively for the "rich guys".

I've been tracking my spending on electricity since driving our Model 3's and I'm amazed at how efficient they are. A drive in heavy traffic from my home to Los Angeles, 60 miles, cost me less than $1.00 worth of electricity. I used to stress out about how much my Lexus was going to cost to go to LA. I'm amazed at how economical this car has been for me. As I continue to watch the price of gasoline rise, I'm very thankful that I have such a low cost of operation on my vehicle. This has nothing to do with luxury. I'm basically cheap and I like seeing how little it cost me to operate these cars.

 

[Mr. Tightwad]

I read on the news that gas in Socal is $4.02 a gallon. I don't go to gas stations anymore so I had to look as I drove past today. Outrageous.

 

[aja8888]

I read on the news that gas in Socal is $4.02 a gallon. I don't go to gas stations anymore so I had to look as I drove past today. Outrageous.

Very much so. Around here it's averaging $2.50 per gallon. An EV in CA is a good thing. Even a hybrid is not bad.

 

[ERD50]

They could put a cap on the purchase price like Canada is about to do. But I see a lot of people posting on the TMC forum that they just bought a $35K Model 3 with no options. I don't think a $35K purchase is exclusively for the "rich guys". ...

right, that would at least be subsidizing a car, not a luxury purchase. Though I still don't see any reason to subsidize them. If they are as great as some here are saying, what other motivation is needed?

... I've been tracking my spending on electricity since driving our Model 3's and I'm amazed at how efficient they are. A drive in heavy traffic from my home to Los Angeles, 60 miles, cost me less than $1.00 worth of electricity. ... This has nothing to do with luxury. I'm basically cheap and I like seeing how little it cost me to operate these cars.

What do you pay per kWh? Less than $1.00 for 60 miles sounds like maybe you are on a night time rate? Three miles per kWh is a pretty good figure, so 20 kWh for <$1.00 is < 5 cents per kWh, pretty low.

Yes, gas prices are up around here, I was seeing less than $2.00/G at most places, now closer to $3.00/Gallon.

But of course, if EVs take over the way some here say, there will be a lot of gasoline and refineries that want to keep busy, so gas will drop. Since it was $2 recently, it should easily go below that. And added electrical demand will mean rising kWh prices, and that demand will be keeping fossil fuel plants on line longer than if that demand did not exist. And you will have to be hit with road taxes. So enjoy it while you can!

I'm not sure I can take your "I like seeing how little it cost me to operate these cars" too seriously. IIRC, you posted some very high routine maintenance costs for your Lexus, far higher than any car I've owned. It's easy to spend much less than you did on maintenance, so that just doesn't align with you other comments on the subject.

-ERD50

 

[eroscott]

They could put a cap on the purchase price like Canada is about to do. But I see a lot of people posting on the TMC forum that they just bought a $35K Model 3 with no options. I don't think a $35K purchase is exclusively for the "rich guys".

I've been tracking my spending on electricity since driving our Model 3's and I'm amazed at how efficient they are. A drive in heavy traffic from my home to Los Angeles, 60 miles, cost me less than $1.00 worth of electricity. I used to stress out about how much my Lexus was going to cost to go to LA. I'm amazed at how economical this car has been for me. As I continue to watch the price of gasoline rise, I'm very thankful that I have such a low cost of operation on my vehicle. This has nothing to do with luxury. I'm basically cheap and I like seeing how little it cost me to operate these cars.

I read on the news that gas in Socal is $4.02 a gallon. I don't go to gas stations anymore so I had to look as I drove past today. Outrageous.

Back when I watched this stuff I looked at this site to see how different areas of the country were doing.

https://www.gasbuddy.com/GasPriceMap