TIAA-CREF sucks!

[nun]

I'm pretty pissed off right now with TIAA-CREF and annoyed with Vanguard. Here's the situation.

Last year I moved some after tax mutual funds from TC to Vanguard. I moved then "in kind" so that the TC funds were held in a Vanguard brokerage account and then I sold the funds and bought Vanguard funds. I did this because both TC and Vanguard said it was the easiest way and TC assured me that all my cost basis information would transfer too. As I was also rolling over an IRA I thought ok let the companies so it.

Well its ok to do this for IRAs, but not for after tax mutual funds, because guess what, TC did not transfer that cost basis info and now say they have no way of working out my 1099-B for the sale of the TC funds at Vanguard. Also Vanguard cannot do this. They have sent me a 1099-B that shows the proceeds of the sale, but no taxable gains etc. If I had just accepted this and did my taxes looks like I could avoid the capital gains tax..........

Well I'm too sensible to try that one so now I'm left going through 7 years of accounts to replicate the numbers I'd have if I'd simply sold the TC funds, got a check and bought Vanguard.

 

[FinanceDude]

One of my main pet peeves with the system............the fact that the mutual funds HAVE the cost basis, but don't HAVE to transfer it............

If you don't use a spreadsheet or Quicken or something to track your cost basis, it's a lot of work to do. I have come to understand the IRS accepts an "average" cost per share, but I would check on the IRS website for the rules on it...................

 

[LOL!]

I have no sympathy for you. Many of us were investing in mutual fund and reinvesting distributions before there were PCs and almost before there were electronic calculators. It is only in recent years that fund companies kept track of cost basis for you. 7 years is almost old enough to not have the fund company track things for you anyways. Also, why would you trust what the company told you anyways?

Everyone here has kept annual statements from the day they were born. Going over them is something retirees have long enjoyed doing before there was sudoku. It keeps your brain sharp. OTOH, studies show that complaining on message boards shortens your life.

 

[nun]

I have no sympathy for you. Many of us were investing in mutual fund and reinvesting distributions before there were PCs and almost before there were electronic calculators. It is only in recent years that fund companies kept track of cost basis for you. 7 years is almost old enough to not have the fund company track things for you anyways. Also, why would you trust what the company told you anyways?

Everyone here has kept annual statements from the day they were born. Going over them is something retirees have long enjoyed doing before there was sudoku. It keeps your brain sharp. OTOH, studies show that complaining on message boards shortens your life.

Well I've gone back over my statements and I've just finished typing the transactions into excel and calculating the gains etc that I'll enter on the Schedule D. Its an inconvenience, but I'm mostly annoyed at the possibility that something like this can happen. I used to do DRIPS so I'm a fastidious record keeper. I used to use Quicken, but got away from it when I consolidated in mutual funds.

The next thing will be the inevitable questions from the IRS as to why my Schedule D doesn't agree with my 1099-B

 

[JohnEyles]

TIAA-CREF sent me a printout of all my transactions (in an after-tax
mutual fund account) so I'd at least have the info on record. I was
like "can you send that to me in electronic form ?" so that I could at
least paste it into Excel, and the answer was "no".

Incredibly, in an account I recently annuitized from a TIAA-CREF
retirement account, it is not possible to view the amounts on the
website AT ALL. The only option is to have them read out to you
on the phone, or perhaps they could send them in written form.

Vanguard is a little spastic in this regard too. I opened an account
there after I had already bought VWAHX in Schwab, so I moved the
VWAHX over. I cannot get Vanguard to record any basis for it.

Schwab OTOH allows you to specfiy a basis (for amounts transferred
TO them) and will put it into their system. You can also, if push comes
to shove, print a "History" and paste it into Excel. Schwab seems to
me to be by far the most advanced website-wise.

P.S. ER'ing recently, I turned off all my DRIPs, in order to start taking
income and so that basis calculations would be simpler in my senile
years.

 

[Texas Proud]

Well I've gone back over my statements and I've just finished typing the transactions into excel and calculating the gains etc that I'll enter on the Schedule D. Its an inconvenience, but I'm mostly annoyed at the possibility that something like this can happen. I used to do DRIPS so I'm a fastidious record keeper. I used to use Quicken, but got away from it when I consolidated in mutual funds.

The next thing will be the inevitable questions from the IRS as to why my Schedule D doesn't agree with my 1099-B

None..... I think you are not doing things right on your tax return...

The 1099 B is the gross sales price... it would be the same from EITHER company... They are required to tell you your SALES, not your gain...

If you only put down your gain, I am surprised the IRS has not been knocking on your door earlier..

 

[nun]

None..... I think you are not doing things right on your tax return...

The 1099 B is the gross sales price... it would be the same from EITHER company... They are required to tell you your SALES, not your gain...

If you only put down your gain, I am surprised the IRS has not been knocking on your door earlier..

I don't think I explained myself completely.

The Vanguard 1099-B has the proceeds from the sale, but as they didn't have any cost basis information form TC the long and short term capital gains boxes have zero in them. So what I'm doing is calculating my cost basis back to 2001 by adding up all my purchases. I'm doing this sepearatly for shares held more than and less than a year to calculate the long and short term capital gains so I can fill out my Schedule D

 

[donheff]

What is with all of this blame the victim stuff?? I have been dumping money into various funds for years and don't have exhaustive records. I thought that mutual funds were supposed to be able to tell you the cost as long as you use the average cost method. Am I wrong about that?

 

[wompo]

I had TIAA Mutual funds also and did the same process as you back in 2005. We lost the cost basis info also. We contacted TIAA and they did send a detailed transaction history for each fund. (No eletronic data). We had to take that and compute the average cost basis. It was a pain in the a** but at least we could do it. At least it was just a one time thing for us.

 

[d]

I thought that mutual funds were supposed to be able to tell you the cost as long as you use the average cost method. Am I wrong about that?

could be! i believe they do it as a service to the fundholder, not as a requirement ... and i know (the hard way) that not all fund companies do it, and/or only if a fund was opened after they began that service.

So what I'm doing is calculating my cost basis back to 2001 by adding up all my purchases.

don't forget to add any distributions that were reinvested.

 

[nun]

could be! i believe they do it as a service to the fundholder, not as a requirement ... and i know (the hard way) that not all fund companies do it, and/or only if a fund was opened after they began that service. don't forget to add any distributions that were reinvested.

I had dividends that were reinvested, but I thought that my cost basis would just be the actual purchases I made, do I include dividends along with my purchases in the cost basis?

 

[samclem]

Assuming you bought new shares with the dividends, then each of these must be recorded as a new purchase (that is, a new set of shares with their own cost basis).

 

[rockyj]

I had dividends that were reinvested, but I thought that my cost basis would just be the actual purchases I made, do I include dividends along with my purchases in the cost basis?

In your taxable accounts, your reinvested dividends (and/or reinvested capital gains) represent additional purchases of shares at the then current share price. So, yes, they add to the cost basis, same as any other shares you may have purchased along the way.

 

[Texas Proud]

I don't think I explained myself completely.

The Vanguard 1099-B has the proceeds from the sale, but as they didn't have any cost basis information form TC the long and short term capital gains boxes have zero in them. So what I'm doing is calculating my cost basis back to 2001 by adding up all my purchases. I'm doing this sepearatly for shares held more than and less than a year to calculate the long and short term capital gains so I can fill out my Schedule D

Maybe I am not being clear either..... that information you are talking about does NOT get on a 1099 B.... you might be looking at the Vanguard sales report that does give you the gain amounts, but it is not on a 1099 B

 

[donheff]

Maybe I am not being clear either..... that information you are talking about does NOT get on a 1099 B.... you might be looking at the Vanguard sales report that does give you the gain amounts, but it is not on a 1099 B

IS it reported by the fund company on some other form? If it isn't reported anywhere by the fund company how can IRS check? If it is reported then WTF wouldn't the fund company provide the info to us?

 

[nun]

Maybe I am not being clear either..... that information you are talking about does NOT get on a 1099 B.... you might be looking at the Vanguard sales report that does give you the gain amounts, but it is not on a 1099 B

Yes sorry, the 1099-B comes through showing the proceeds and there is generally a cost statement attached that shows the gains. Its the latter that Vanguard carn't generate as TIAA-CREF didn't transfer my historical transaction information.

I had a brain fart about the reinvested dividends and cost basis. obviously they get added in, the real bummer is that I had a small amount of money in the Bond Plus fund that generates reinvested income every month.

 

[nun]

IS it reported by the fund company on some other form? If it isn't reported anywhere by the fund company how can IRS check? If it is reported then WTF wouldn't the fund company provide the info to us?

They didn't send the correct accounting to me as Vanguard doesn't know the cost basis and TC washed their hands of my funds once I transfered them to Vanguard. TC will provide print outs of all the transactions if you don't have the records so you can compute the gains yourself. But this seems to be an opportunity to try to defraud the IRS as neither vanguard or TC have reported any gains to the IRS. Of course its up to the tax payer to make sure its all computed correctly, but an unscrupulous person might try to declare zero gains.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

This is why I dont reinvest the dividends and gains...ever!

BTW, even vanguard funds you buy directly from vanguard and sell with vanguard dont always include all the cost basis/gains information. Last two years I've had to go back to my purchase sheets and figure it out myself.

THATS stupid.

 

[nun]

TIAA-CREF sent me a printout of all my transactions (in an after-tax
mutual fund account) so I'd at least have the info on record. I was
like "can you send that to me in electronic form ?" so that I could at
least paste it into Excel, and the answer was "no".

Incredibly, in an account I recently annuitized from a TIAA-CREF
retirement account, it is not possible to view the amounts on the
website AT ALL. The only option is to have them read out to you
on the phone, or perhaps they could send them in written form.

Vanguard is a little spastic in this regard too. I opened an account
there after I had already bought VWAHX in Schwab, so I moved the
VWAHX over. I cannot get Vanguard to record any basis for it.

Schwab OTOH allows you to specfiy a basis (for amounts transferred
TO them) and will put it into their system. You can also, if push comes
to shove, print a "History" and paste it into Excel. Schwab seems to
me to be by far the most advanced website-wise.

P.S. ER'ing recently, I turned off all my DRIPs, in order to start taking
income and so that basis calculations would be simpler in my senile
years.

There is one way to get mutual frun transaction electronically and that's just to cut the transaction history form the website and paste it into excel. the bogus thing with TIAA-CREF is that they only show the latest 80 transactions.

 

[d]

the bogus thing with TIAA-CREF is that they only show the latest 80 transactions.

... there are some fund companies that give you no access at all. 'spose we should expect them to do all the calculations and pay the tax too?

 

[donheff]

This is why I dont reinvest the dividends and gains...ever!

BTW, even vanguard funds you buy directly from vanguard and sell with vanguard dont always include all the cost basis/gains information. Last two years I've had to go back to my purchase sheets and figure it out myself.

THATS stupid.

I find it almost incredible that there isn't a law that requires mutual fund companies to keep track of the info. Most people, including me, are not as savvy as many of the posters on this board. I would guess at least half simply have the dividends reinvested and assume the companies will keep track of things. That is what I did for the last twenty years. If people have to figure these numbers out themselves, the IRS is either going to have to audit a lot of people or they will get a lot of bogus returns.

 

[Texas Proud]

Yes sorry, the 1099-B comes through showing the proceeds and there is generally a cost statement attached that shows the gains. Its the latter that Vanguard carn't generate as TIAA-CREF didn't transfer my historical transaction information.

I had a brain fart about the reinvested dividends and cost basis. obviously they get added in, the real bummer is that I had a small amount of money in the Bond Plus fund that generates reinvested income every month.

Let me be a bit more clear..... Vanguard (or any other company) DOES NOT send the gain information to the IRS... it is NOT done... read the fine print on the forms you got... it is FOR YOU..

The reason is that they are doing 'average' cost basis and the IRS will allow you to do specific accounting...

The IRS does not know how much gain you actually have... it is on the tax return when they find out..

 

[d]

it is the taxpayer's responsibility! but even here there's not a requirement ... the irs would be happy to have you pay taxes on the full amount of the sale.

 

[nun]

Let me be a bit more clear..... Vanguard (or any other company) DOES NOT send the gain information to the IRS... it is NOT done... read the fine print on the forms you got... it is FOR YOU..

The reason is that they are doing 'average' cost basis and the IRS will allow you to do specific accounting...

The IRS does not know how much gain you actually have... it is on the tax return when they find out..

Yes I understand, the 1099-B shows the proceeds. The Account statement for the tax year states that it is NOT a tax form. However, I think most folks look more closely at the Tax statement rather than the 1099-B as it usually has the information you need to fill out Schedule D. What got me started on this in the forst place was lots of zeros in vanguards Account sheet where I had expected the ST and LT gaind from the sale fo my TIAA-CREF funds held in their brokerage account.

I think most regular mutiual fund investors rely on the firms to provide them with cost basis and gain information. I know there are lots of hardcore investors out there who just love to do the analysis, but for most of us its a pain in the neck and when something goes wrong with a sale or transfer and you end up in cost basis calculation hell to report your gains to the IRS its not a lot of fun.

Anyway I have complete the calculations for the 4 TC funds that I transfered. I cut and pasted 80% of the transaction data from the TC website into excel and manually typed in the rest from my records. A few edits to take account of redemptions that I've already paid LT gains on and I'm done.

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I find it almost incredible that there isn't a law that requires mutual fund companies to keep track of the info. Most people, including me, are not as savvy as many of the posters on this board. I would guess at least half simply have the dividends reinvested and assume the companies will keep track of things. That is what I did for the last twenty years. If people have to figure these numbers out themselves, the IRS is either going to have to audit a lot of people or they will get a lot of bogus returns.

Well, vanguard will give you a separate report that shows your AVERAGE cost basis, but doesnt allocate that to short and long term gains. The IRS would like you to list each purchase and sale amount, cost and date. I've decided to comply

After calculating the cost basis of a fund that I reinvested into over 5 years, which also changed names halfway through, on the heels of calculating the cost basis of three spin offs created to "unlock shareholder value" from a form with at least 50 calculations and if/then statements...I decided from then on that my stock and mutual fund purchases would have one buy and one sell. All in and all out.

I kinda figured that doing this and doing it all with one company and their captive funds would make tax time a point and click 15 minute event, but thats not to be. I had to spend a whole three hours on it. (martha just called me a name!)